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Offlinedurantz
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074030 - 03/06/11 02:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Dude you actually just seem really hostile...

It's kinda like going into a legal battle and I'm the small fry and you're the corporate fat cat. you have all the money to drag the court case out for as long as you want. And then in the end it's not about who is 'right' it's just about who can afford to fight the longest.

I admit to you I'm actually not willing to expend any more energy debating this with you. If that means I'm 'wrong' then so be it.

Sure I can explain everything in minute detail for you but I'm sure you will just then ask me to back my statements of with more evidence. What you're doing is trying to trap me in an infinite regress. If you know anything of the nature of language you would understand that regression is a fundamental part of it. I know this and I am choosing to escape the trap you are trying to set for me.

You are baiting me by insulting me and saying that I'm not 'keeping up', and that I'm not 'backing my claims' up. You want me to get emotional and try and defend my honour. I'm afraid you're ploy will not work on me because I refuse to humour you any longer.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074057 - 03/06/11 02:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Dude you actually just seem really hostile...


I'm pretty high, but I'm not hostile in the least. :vaped:


Quote:

durantz said:
It's kinda like going into a legal battle and I'm the small fry and you're the corporate fat cat. you have all the money to drag the court case out for as long as you want. And then in the end it's not about who is 'right' it's just about who can afford to fight the longest.

I admit to you I'm actually not willing to expend any more energy debating this with you. If that means I'm 'wrong' then so be it.

Sure I can explain everything in minute detail for you but I'm sure you will just then ask me to back my statements of with more evidence. What you're doing is trying to trap me in an infinite regress. If you know anything of the nature of language you would understand that regression is a fundamental part of it. I know this and I am choosing to escape the trap you are trying to set for me.


I'm not trying to set a trap for you, and I'm not asking you to explain everything in minute detail; I'm simply asking you to back up your claims, because this is a debate forum. I haven't the slightest clue why this is so difficult for you, but it's quite amusing TBH. :jointsmile:


Quote:

durantz said:
You are baiting me by insulting me and saying that I'm not 'keeping up', and that I'm not 'backing my claims' up.


:lol:, where did I insult you? This is a debate forum, if you just like babbling about and making a whole bunch of unsubstantiated claims, then go to the Spirituality & Mysticism forum, this isn't the place to do it.


Quote:

durantz said:
You want me to get emotional and try and defend my honour. I'm afraid you're ploy will not work on me because I refuse to humour you any longer.


:rofl2:, I don't really give a shit if you get emotional or not, nor do I care about your honor, I just simply want you to back up your claims.


It's hilarious how you've made such a huge deal out of this. :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074078 - 03/06/11 02:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ok let's make this clear.

You are asking me to provide evidence to support definitions of words.

So let's say I humour you once. I say to you a "tree" is something with roots, a trunk, and leaves. And then you say "back up that with evidence". so I show you a photo of a tree or I say "I have seen many trees and they all have roots, trunks, and leaves".

Now you then counter with, "ah but what about a shrub? doesn't that have roots, trunk, and leaves too?"

So then now I must define exactly the difference between the variety of trunks (of which there are many). I must do the same with the word 'roots' and the word 'leaves'.

And dude to be honest I'd be sitting on this forum 24/7 for the rest of my life and I still wouldn't be able to provide the evidence you want.

you see if I begin the spiral with you it doesn't end. I can see where this will lead to and I'm choosing not to go there.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074106 - 03/06/11 02:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Ok let's make this clear.

You are asking me to provide evidence to support definitions of words.


:facepalm:

Jesus fuck, I ask you again, are you even reading my posts? Earlier, I said this:

You did not answer me when I asked you "What proof do you have to support your claim that our perception is not 'true' (where 'true' is being in accordance with the actual state or conditions)?", or when I asked you to prove that our perception is not correct.


What's so fucking hard about keeping up, man? :what:



Quote:

durantz said:
you see if I begin the spiral with you it doesn't end. I can see where this will lead to and I'm choosing not to go there.


You have quite an imagination, I don't know where you came up with all this shit. :lol:


If you want to continue on with the debate, just address the bold sentence above.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074114 - 03/06/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)



This will explain it all to you


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074125 - 03/06/11 03:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:rofl2:


You lose. :awedrugs:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074132 - 03/06/11 03:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No because I exposed you for what you really are trying to do.

Just beat me down by putting the burden of proof on me while you sit back and make unsubstantiated claims yourself. And you use the dictionary as evidence... wow dude... did you learn to do that all on your own?


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074140 - 03/06/11 03:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
No because I exposed you for what you really are trying to do.


I'm trying to debate with you, that's it.


Quote:

durantz said:
Just beat me down by putting the burden of proof on me...


The burden of proof for the claims you make is on you, I don't need to "beat you down" or put it on you.


Quote:

durantz said:
...while you sit back and make unsubstantiated claims yourself.


If you feel like I've made unsubstantiated claims, then why haven't you brought this up? I'd be more than willing to discuss them.


Quote:

durantz said:
And you use the dictionary as evidence... wow dude... did you learn to do that all on your own?


You're kidding me, right? Why don't you think the dictionary can be used as evidence? :tard:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074143 - 03/06/11 03:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You did not answer me when I asked you "What proof do you have to support your claim that our perception is not 'true' (where 'true' is being in accordance with the actual state or conditions)?", or when I asked you to prove that our perception is not correct.




This is painful for me to do this but I feel like I can't neglect a soul when I see them. So I will strive to educate you.

OK please, please, please, study some optical illusions.

Then please study hallucinations.

Once you've had a look at these things then maybe, JUST maybe you will see that perception is not in accordance with the "actual state or conditions".

It's so frustrating for me because I am actually devoting my life to studying this and I'm arguing against someone who hasn't done the study I have. And you want me to go and find it for you?? Why should I dude? I've given you a direction on how to explore this topic but you want me to provide specific, point, by point explanations. Do some work yourself!


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074150 - 03/06/11 03:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You're kidding me, right? Why don't you think the dictionary can be used as evidence?




Ok who's not keeping up now? Refer to my post #14074078

The debate then bogs down into semantics which by nature operates on an infinite regress. Do you understand what infinite means? OR do you want me to provide definitons and then back them up with evidence?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074163 - 03/06/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

You did not answer me when I asked you "What proof do you have to support your claim that our perception is not 'true' (where 'true' is being in accordance with the actual state or conditions)?", or when I asked you to prove that our perception is not correct.




This is painful for me to do this but I feel like I can't neglect a soul when I see them. So I will strive to educate you.

OK please, please, please, study some optical illusions.

Then please study hallucinations.

Once you've had a look at these things then maybe, JUST maybe you will see that perception is not in accordance with the "actual state or conditions".


You don't seem to understand the purpose of this forum, did you even read the forum description?

This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.

This is a debate forum, not a "talk about how much you know then tell other people to research it themselves" forum; for the last time, it's expected that you back up your claims with some evidence. If you can't do that, then you should just leave. :shrug:


Our vision may not be perfectly in accordance with the "actual state or conditions", but it definitely is in accordance with it to a significant degree; if it weren't, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.


Quote:

durantz said:
It's so frustrating for me because I am actually devoting my life to studying this and I'm arguing against someone who hasn't done the study I have. And you want me to go and find it for you?? Why should I dude? I've given you a direction on how to explore this topic but you want me to provide specific, point, by point explanations. Do some work yourself!


It's frustrating when n00bs come in here spouting a bunch of baseless claims, then get all pissy and ask others to prove their claims for them. :shrug2:

If you have done so much study on this, then it would be very easy for you to supply evidence for your claims; you're either lying, or you just learn really slowly.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074176 - 03/06/11 03:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Our vision may not be perfectly in accordance with the "actual state or conditions", but it definitely is in accordance with it to a significant degree; if it weren't, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.




This doesn't fit the dictionary definition of 'accurate' that you hold in such high esteem! I'm not sure why you are doing this? Why when you are confronted with evidence do you just ignore it? Can you see why I am frustrated?

Quote:

significant degree


what is that degree? Define your concept of "significant degree" and provide evidence to support this claim.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074183 - 03/06/11 03:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

You're kidding me, right? Why don't you think the dictionary can be used as evidence?




Ok who's not keeping up now? Refer to my post #14074078

The debate then bogs down into semantics which by nature operates on an infinite regress. Do you understand what infinite means? OR do you want me to provide definitons and then back them up with evidence?


Wow...:huxleyfacepalm:

In your post #14074078, you said "You are asking me to provide evidence to support definitions of words.", and I don't know WTF makes you think that. I'm asking you to support your claim that our perception is not 'true', and that our perception is not correct, I never asked you to provide evidence to support definitions of words. :nut:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074198 - 03/06/11 03:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Dude it seems like you and I just inhabit completely different thought realities. So it seems like we are totally unable to communicate with each other. We are speaking English but neither of us understands the other person.

Bearing that in mind is there any point to us debating this any further?

I don't think we are getting anywhere.

And really if we both look down upon this situation as outside observers it really seem quite absurd what is taking place.

I know we both get some kinda kick out of making a point and watch the other person try and counter it. But I don't think we are actually making a point to each other cos we simply do not understand one another.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074199 - 03/06/11 03:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

Our vision may not be perfectly in accordance with the "actual state or conditions", but it definitely is in accordance with it to a significant degree; if it weren't, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.




This doesn't fit the dictionary definition of 'accurate' that you hold in such high esteem!


What do you mean, why not? Our vision is definitely somewhat in accordance with the "actual state or conditions", so it is somewhat accurate.


Quote:

durantz said:
I'm not sure why you are doing this? Why when you are confronted with evidence do you just ignore it? Can you see why I am frustrated?


What are you talking about? What evidence did I ignore? I think you're frustrated because of your overactive imagination. :wink:


Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

significant degree


what is that degree? Define your concept of "significant degree" and provide evidence to support this claim.


I would say our vision is in accordance with the "actual state or conditions" to a significant degree because it is more in accordance with it than it is not; again if this were not so, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (03/06/11 03:58 AM)


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074206 - 03/06/11 03:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I would say our vision is in accordance to the "actual state or conditions" to a significant degree because it is more in accordance with it than it is not; again if this were not so, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.




I asked you to define 'significant degree' and provide evidence to support your claim. Can you do this or is the debate heating up too much for you?


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074208 - 03/06/11 03:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Dude it seems like you and I just inhabit completely different thought realities. So it seems like we are totally unable to communicate with each other. We are speaking English but neither of us understands the other person.


I am understanding you pretty well, you don't seem to understand the concept of proof too much, and you're imagining that I'm making claims that in reality I never made.


Quote:

durantz said:
Bearing that in mind is there any point to us debating this any further?


I think there may be, eventually something might click and you'll understand what you've been doing wrong. :smirk:


Quote:

durantz said:
And really if we both look down upon this situation as outside observers it really seem quite absurd what is taking place.


Well yeah, some of your posts have been pretty absurd IMO. :lol:


Quote:

durantz said:
I know we both get some kinda kick out of making a point and watch the other person try and counter it. But I don't think we are actually making a point to each other cos we simply do not understand one another.


Again, I do understand you a bit; you are highly distracted, and you don't know how to debate well.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: Poid]
    #14074215 - 03/06/11 03:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ohhhhhh it has just clicked!! You are debating with me! I understand now. You're not actually concerned with seeking truth.

Ok sorry dude. In that case you definitely win cos you're right I have no formal training in debating.

We have a gifted rhetorician on our hands people; Watch out or he may convince us that our hands are feet and our feet are hands.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074231 - 03/06/11 03:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

I would say our vision is in accordance to the "actual state or conditions" to a significant degree because it is more in accordance with it than it is not; again if this were not so, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.




I asked you to define 'significant degree' and provide evidence to support your claim. Can you do this or is the debate heating up too much for you?


I explained that the fact that our vision is more in accordance with it than it is not means that it is in accordance with it to a significant degree--do you not know what the terms 'significant' and 'degree' mean? Obviously, 'significant degree' is arbitrary, that's why I gave you an arbitrary example.


This was my evidence:
...again if this were not so, then we wouldn't be able to navigate/manipulate our environment so successfully.

Obviously, if our vision was not in accordance with the "actual state or conditions", then we wouldn't be able to survive in the "actual state or conditions" because we wouldn't be able to successfully navigate/manipulate them.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: The virtual spirituality [Re: durantz]
    #14074236 - 03/06/11 03:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Ohhhhhh it has just clicked!! You are debating with me! I understand now. You're not actually concerned with seeking truth.


What do you think debate is about?


Quote:

durantz said:
Ok sorry dude. In that case you definitely win cos you're right I have no formal training in debating.

We have a gifted rhetorician on our hands people; Watch out or he may convince us that our hands are feet and our feet are hands.


:blah:



I wish you would actually debate, man, you don't even address each of my responses, it's not fun. :sad:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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