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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Obtaining a gun (under the table)
    #14047668 - 03/01/11 10:01 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I know practically nothing about firearms

I'm interested in purchasing a 9mm from a dealer. He told me that the new nine millimeters hold 16 rounds. I'd like one of these.

I have no criminal record, but I don't want be registered as a gun owner in case another hurricane katrina-type scenario happens again.

I'd like to know a few things before I follow through with this decision:

1. What prices should I expect for a new 9mm with 16 rounds?
-What prices to expect from a reputable dealer vs. an "under the table" dealer?

2.What sort of penalties are there for getting caught with an unlicensed firearm?
-General penalties?
-Crossing over statelines?
-If I use the gun in self-defense and injur or kill someone will I get in trouble?

3. What's a quality, reliable brand or type? And how much should I expect to pay for this?

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: insipidtoast]
    #14048334 - 03/01/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

it all depends on the name brand

you can get a super cheap 9mm such as a hi-point, for like 160 brand new, cheaper gun, but its reliable, accurate and life time warrenty..


you can get a taurus for 350-400

or you can get berretta, or sig sauers for more...


each state has different laws, you can purchase a gun from a private party and not have it in there name, but wiht that comes the risk of the gun being reported stolen, in which case you will get in trouble..


most states have a 'open-carry' law, which allows you to carry the gun holstered on your side, or in your vehicle as long as its visible and not concealed..


each case for a 'self-defense' case is different, they will review the evidence and go from there...if someone breaks into your house and you shoot them, its self defense..if you start an argument/fight and they attack you, it will be seen as you provoked the situation and thus throwing out your self-defense claim


when purchasing from a FFL dealer you will fill out paperwork, it willl then be called into the state police and they will do a background check, as long as you have no domestic disputes or felony's, or anything like that they will approve you, sometimes it takes 5 minutes, sometimes it takes hours all depends on what the background check reveals....

also you have to be 21 years of age or older to purchase a handgun, where only 18 for a rifle...


hope this helps some..

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: insipidtoast]
    #14048949 - 03/01/11 02:52 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I'm no American so I don't know the precise laws involved but..

Its common knowledge that IF you get your place searched and they find dr00gz and an unlicenced gun.. you're seriously screwed.

I really wouldnt go the "under the table" route if I were you. Its best to be legal, at the risk of having your gun confiscated.


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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: Asante]
    #14048976 - 03/01/11 02:57 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

yep, i forgot and left that part out..

anytime you get caught with drugs + guns it equals immedial federal charge instead of state charges..

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: biologys]
    #14049151 - 03/01/11 03:29 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

how bout just the gun, no drugs?

Also how are the laws from Nevada-->California?

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: insipidtoast]
    #14049359 - 03/01/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

your going to need to look at the law itself and decipher its bullshit in to human to know for sure dude. It will just take like 6 hours. man up.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #14049386 - 03/01/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

also remember we have a shooting forum here, they might give different answers there.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineBipolarbear
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #14056801 - 03/02/11 08:11 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

California is very, very, very anti-gun.  The laws concerning carry there are very prohibitive.  I'm not sure of the laws of Nevada but it is more gun friendly than Cali.  Do not get a hi point or a trash 9mm.  When you need a gun you NEED it to work.  I would not trust my life to a jam at the most serious of moments.  A Glock 17 is a very fine gun will run you around 500 but it will fire EVERY TIME.  Getting a concealed carry permit differs from state to state and the less gun friendly a state is the more justification you need to have one to get it and even then you might need to know someone.  NY, Cali you need justification such as I carry large amounts of cash around with me due to my line of work therefore I need to protect myself.  Also injuring or killing someone with your gun and the penalties that comes with it vary so widely from state to state.  You had better believe you are going to do have to defend your life in the courtroom if you kill an intruder in your house in California whereas if I kill an intruder in my house in Georgia I will get a highfive from the investigating officer (not joking) and the odds of a case being brought against me are so minute as to not even think over.

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: Larrythescaryrex] * 1
    #14056822 - 03/02/11 08:14 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

If you're looking to buy "under-the-table" for the sake of owning an unregistered gun, just got to a gun show, and buy from a private party. Most of the time they will only card you to make sure your of age to own a handgun, but beyond that there is no documentation generally required.

I got arrested with my gun awhile back, had it out cause I lived in a bad neighborhood, and the cops came knocking while I was drunk as shit on a Friday night. They saw the gun and fucking flipped out, restrained the fuck out of me, and threw me in jail for 72 hours. I got my gun back and all, but point in case, keep it out of LEO's eyes.

If you're a felon, you cannot possess, or be considered to be in possession of a gun (meaning an unclaimed firearm in your vicinity). Not sure if it's Federal law or just my state, but I was looking at 15 years mandatory prison when I got arrested, because I had committed a felony under the age of 18. Obviously that didn't happen, thank fucking god.

Also, that gun show loophole for buying unregistered guns will probably be quickly coming to a close with all the massacre's and shit going on, so if you'd like one you better get while the getting is good - you never know when you might need that shit!

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: c1dh3d]
    #14056838 - 03/02/11 08:18 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Also, I'd recommend a Springfield XD9 as well. It's a knock-off of a glock, but I've seen it survive brutal stress tests:

- Frozen in ice, broke it out of the ice, and it shot

- Dropped in water, shot again instantly

- Covered in mud, then thrown against a wall without misfiring, then picked up and shot

The nice thing about both Glocks and this Springfield is the lack of the hammer, which in my mind translates to not accidentally blowing an appendage off when you inevitably end up tinkering with / cocking the hammer back :thumbup:

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: c1dh3d]
    #14057170 - 03/02/11 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

c1dh3d said:
If you're looking to buy "under-the-table" for the sake of owning an unregistered gun, just got to a gun show, and buy from a private party. Most of the time they will only card you to make sure your of age to own a handgun, but beyond that there is no documentation generally required.

I got arrested with my gun awhile back, had it out cause I lived in a bad neighborhood, and the cops came knocking while I was drunk as shit on a Friday night. They saw the gun and fucking flipped out, restrained the fuck out of me, and threw me in jail for 72 hours. I got my gun back and all, but point in case, keep it out of LEO's eyes.

If you're a felon, you cannot possess, or be considered to be in possession of a gun (meaning an unclaimed firearm in your vicinity). Not sure if it's Federal law or just my state, but I was looking at 15 years mandatory prison when I got arrested, because I had committed a felony under the age of 18. Obviously that didn't happen, thank fucking god.

Also, that gun show loophole for buying unregistered guns will probably be quickly coming to a close with all the massacre's and shit going on, so if you'd like one you better get while the getting is good - you never know when you might need that shit!




Yow. check out what they did to this woman:


I'll probably get a glock, or one of those invisible pistols that no one can see.

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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: biologys]
    #14057337 - 03/02/11 10:05 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
yep, i forgot and left that part out..

anytime you get caught with drugs + guns it equals immedial federal charge instead of state charges..




How about legal gun w/o prior felonies + drugs?



~Monk

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: numonkei]
    #14057367 - 03/02/11 10:11 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

gun and drugs together are always a horrible combination, no matter if you've been convicted prior or not.

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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: numonkei]
    #14057389 - 03/02/11 10:15 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Someone might be able to correct me if I'm wrong in this, but I believe if you are caught committing a felony with a firearm, it makes the 'felony' an 'aggravated felony'. I'm not sure if that brings it to a Federal level, or if it remains on a state level with a lengthier sentence, but you are definitely much more likely to catch a maximum sentence for the felony if it's considered an aggravated / violent crime.

I'm not sure how that would translate to felony drug possession, I haven't heard of "aggravated felony possession of cocaine", but then again I don't really know a lot of people getting caught with guns while committing felonies :thumbup:

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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: biologys]
    #14057393 - 03/02/11 10:16 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Specifically you mention it becoming a federal issue. This is the first I've heard of this, could you elaborate on this a bit? I'm curious as to whether this would happen if you have a legal firearm and no violent priors/felonies and were caught with substance as well.




~Monk

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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: numonkei]
    #14057399 - 03/02/11 10:18 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

yes it immediately becomes a federal offense...no matter if you have any charges prior or not..

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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: numonkei]
    #14057450 - 03/02/11 10:28 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

"Possession of a firearm by a prohibited person"

"Drug User or Addict - Pharaphernellia seized, or user test positive for drugs and/or subject claims drugs were possessed for personal use"


http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf

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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: insipidtoast]
    #14057770 - 03/02/11 11:46 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

insipidtoast said:

Yow. check out what they did to this woman:


I'll probably get a glock, or one of those invisible pistols that no one can see.




Whoa, WTF.

Did anything come of this?  How the fuck does shit like this happen and a class action lawsuit not follow suit?  I mean, seriously.  Not to mention the guy saying being denied a receipt.  Fucking christ.  I mean, things may have been different if martial law was in effect.  I don't know the whole story, can anyone clue me in? /derail

Hypothetical:  Suppose I procure an unlicensed handgun and use it to protect myself in the event of a home invasion or similar situation, what are the possible repercussions?  I figure it'll vary from state to state, but does killing someone whilst protecting yourself with an unregistered gun constitute a crime?

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: yutaka]
    #14058695 - 03/03/11 08:06 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

good question. I'd like to know the answer myself. In California it probaly means they charge you with murder of the first degree.

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InvisibleJohnnyConverse
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Re: Obtaining a gun (under the table) [Re: insipidtoast]
    #14058905 - 03/03/11 09:21 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:



1. What prices should I expect for a new 9mm with 16 rounds?
-What prices to expect from a reputable dealer vs. an "under the table" dealer?




A decent, shootable 9mm runs the gamut from $200-$texas. Various models, btw, hold more or less than 16 shells, but in CA you may be limited to magazines of ten regardless of the weapon's max capacity from the factory (assuming you're purchasing a weapon that would be otherwise legal in CA) 

Quote:

2.What sort of penalties are there for getting caught with an unlicensed firearm?
-General penalties?
-Crossing over statelines?
-If I use the gun in self-defense and injur or kill someone will I get in trouble?




You can get fucked up the ass (sans lube) on all of the above. Esp. if you have any drugs - even a personal quantity, even shit they normally let slide.

Quote:

3. What's a quality, reliable brand or type? And how much should I expect to pay for this?




Very vaugely:
Upper end - Glock, Kimber, Ruger, approx 600
mid - Barretta, Springfield, CZ, Taurus (barely) - 350-550
Low - Keltech, Stoeger, Hi-point - <350 (avoid most of these. It's a lethal weapon that harnesses violent explosions in your hand, don't go cheap)

Those are legit retail prices. I don't know what under the table will do in your area, I can't imagine it's going to be cheaper if you're just paying a dealer not to run a check on you. If it's actually hot it maybe a different matter, but don't do that. You'll probably end up with a gun someone has reported stolen (see above passage RE 'no lube' if you get caught with it)


If your only concern is registration in the event of disaster, just buy it legally at a store in an adjacent state with laxer rules (arizona, I'm looking at you)

It's important to note, the quick check for most guns doesn't actually go into a database, at least not one widely accessible to LEOs. The Katrina gun issue involved the seizure of guns where encountered, not the systematic seizure of legal guns from some presumptive database. So worrying about a "katrina situation" is pointless - you'll only get in more trouble when caught with the gun and have lower odds of getting it back.

Just drive to AZ or NV and buy a gun legally (at a gun show works great for fewer questions)

One thing to consider is a collector's gun - they are tracked differently than recent guns. If you get a "curio and relic" license from the atf you can buy and own a startlingly wide variety of older guns (browing hi-powers, ruger blackhawks, and CZ50s are in there, for example) under a much more lax set of laws, and are exempt from a number of annoying waiting periods and the like...nothing at all wrong with many of the guns on this list, they aren't tip top state of the art but they are fine items that have put bullets downrange in a straight line for decades.

If you can find an even older gun - anything from 1899 or before - that's in good shape, it's essentially exempt from backgrounding, but it's a pipe dream to find one of the few that takes a type of ammo that is available, in shooting condition, and not a hopelessly overpriced collectors item.

Another thing you can do is overshoot the line of legitimacy and get a higher level of gun permit such as that needed to open a gun store - it's actually not that hard from a federal standpoint.

Since you're in CA, if you want one all purpose gun, (and what I would do in your shoes is) get a cheap brand name shotgun like a mossberg 500 or remington 870, and get the non-paramilitary, regular rednecky wood stock and stuff. Looks like a bus tunnel if you point it at a burglar, can do a variety of shooting if you just change the ammo, easy to clean, lacks many distinctive ballistic fingerprints, and very innocuous with sport and recreational uses galore to justify owning. (just not as cool to wave around in front of your pals).

Not to mention: They're cheap. As a special bonus, you don't have to go through the CA handgun safety class (as it isn't a handgun) and you only need to be 18. Also, if you buy it out of state, you aren't considered a "handgun importer" when you bring it instate. AND you don't have to be a resident in the neighboring state to buy a non-handgun, like you would to pick up a pistol. In AZ you can probably get a shotgun at a wal mart. So ... to sum up...shottie FTW.

Standard disclaimers: IANAL, YMMV, GIFYS



ps: If you get the xd, pop the extra 50 bucks for the "XDM" variant, nicer gun on the whole.



--------------------
I wasn't an activist until I got put in jail. I sat there in jail seeing what was really going on in America and something changed. Now when people say, "Tommy what was jail like?" I say "You'll see" -- Tommy Chong

Edited by JohnnyConverse (03/03/11 09:37 AM)

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