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Offlineskatealex2
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Is a Utopian Society possible in America?
    #14057121 - 03/02/11 09:18 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Realistically what would it take?



With the reality of society and the way people are i don't think it is even possible. Too much greed, power, competition...............  Maybe a Utopian Society wouldn't even be all that Utopian but one can dream i guess.........


It certainly wont happen with religions in the mix.  Christianity, Jihad,etc...... seemingly not really helping  :slider:

Edited by skatealex2 (03/02/11 09:19 PM)

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OfflineBelac
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14057138 - 03/02/11 09:21 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

A true utopia is simply not possible. I think the closest we can get to it is to have the general population happy and thats all.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14057185 - 03/02/11 09:33 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Maybe it's possible in America...if it was balanced out by a system of slave-support by the rest of the world. :awesome::thumbup:
Sounds good to me!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14057257 - 03/02/11 09:51 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Realistically what would it take?



With the reality of society and the way people are i don't think it is even possible. Too much greed, power, competition...............  Maybe a Utopian Society wouldn't even be all that Utopian but one can dream i guess.........


It certainly wont happen with religions in the mix.  Christianity, Jihad,etc...... seemingly not really helping  :slider:





an atomic blast of great size or maybe the yellowstone area erupting in a gigantic volcano.  Maybe a deadly virus or plague. :shrug:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #14057425 - 03/02/11 10:24 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

I feel like a true Utopia would have to be comprised of very few members... humans are evolutionary designed to live in small tribes where close connections can be made between every member of the tribe.  As soon as the population increases beyond a certain limit you start to not care as much about people whom you never see and the possibility of crime against these individuals increases IMO.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #14057730 - 03/02/11 11:37 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

So, a society of one, then?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14057736 - 03/02/11 11:39 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
--Stephen King

:rockon:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher]
    #14057789 - 03/02/11 11:51 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

I wish I had a million dollars for every time I have patiently explained how a Utopian society is impossible even with all good-hearted, well-meaning people.


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OfflineChaosauzi
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14065884 - 03/04/11 11:41 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Watch Zeitgeist 3, the only realistic plan I've ever set eyes on. With human nature and the resources of the earth taken into account.

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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14066334 - 03/04/11 01:31 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Realistically what would it take?



With the reality of society and the way people are i don't think it is even possible. Too much greed, power, competition...............  Maybe a Utopian Society wouldn't even be all that Utopian but one can dream i guess.........


It certainly wont happen with religions in the mix.  Christianity, Jihad,etc...... seemingly not really helping  :slider:




A Utopia is impossible at this stage of our evolution because people always want more for themselves. Politics will always reign in some way for as long as we instinctually want to gain advantages of others.

Also, if you're defining a Utopia as a form of society where everyone is happy it will be impossible. However, if your idea of a Utopia is a place where everyone will have the freedoms to do what makes them happy then you're looking at near anarchy.

You could go somewhere where there aren't many people and you could set up a renewable energy commune. Solar farms, windmills etc. You could also make and use ethanol as fuel.

You would need people with knowhow. When you think about it realistically you only need to maintain your equipment and you would have free energy. You could grow your own food and make your own soaps, fuels, clothes, etc a lot of things can be made for free of cheap.

and then your commune of people could like, sell the ethanol it makes or something. You can have specialized trades that can make a little bit of money, because as long as it stayed small, thats all a group of pople with skills needs.

That is the closest to your utopia possible. And you still have to watch your asses with th gov you end up settling in.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher]
    #14066818 - 03/04/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
...humans are evolutionary designed to live in small tribes where close connections can be made between every member of the tribe.


Source? (+1)


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: Poid]
    #14067365 - 03/04/11 05:15 PM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

Look into our status as hunter-gatherer tribes back in the day... also check out this link.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher]
    #14067499 - 03/04/11 05:49 PM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Look into our status as hunter-gatherer tribes back in the day...


Before there were enough people to form such tribes, humans lived together in small groups--what's your point?


Quote:

deCypher said:
...also check out this link.


Funny and informative read, thanks. :lol::thumbup:

I don't think the concept of "monkeysphere" proves that we are evolutionary designed to live in small tribes where close connections can be made between every member of the tribe. It's not necessary for close connections to be made between every member of a large society like ours in order for it to be stable/successful; I'd say that, considering our high sex drive, it stands to reason that we are evolutionarily designed to form large societies. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: Poid]
    #14067504 - 03/04/11 05:51 PM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

My point is that only in recent times (speaking in evolutionary time) have we humans assembled in such large groups as we do now.  Originally our communities were much smaller and more close-knit, allowing close connections to be made between all members of the tribe.  I'll agree that it seems natural given population growth that we'd eventually build cities capable of hosting many more of us, but that kind of living is not what we're evolutionarily designed for: we tend to show no sympathy or compassion for people outside of our limited 'monkeysphere'.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher]
    #14067714 - 03/04/11 06:40 PM (13 years, 20 hours ago)

So we should limit this forum to like 18-30 members?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14067725 - 03/04/11 06:42 PM (13 years, 20 hours ago)

Cull the herd!  :rabble::banbanban:

(you first, naturally :wink:)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: deCypher] * 2
    #14067743 - 03/04/11 06:46 PM (13 years, 20 hours ago)

Sure. Push the old and feeble over the cliff. :oldman:


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14067752 - 03/04/11 06:48 PM (13 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

I'll agree that it seems natural given population growth that we'd eventually build cities capable of hosting many more of us, but that kind of living is not what we're evolutionarily designed for




Evolutionarily designed for?  Sounds fishy to me.  If small societies were able to compete with large societies, we would still have thriving small societies.  But we dont, so I dont see how you can claim that is what we were designed for.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14067789 - 03/04/11 06:58 PM (13 years, 19 hours ago)

Well okay, I've fallen into the bad habit of speaking teleologically: it's not as if a designer expressly created us for a specific purpose.  But I do see our sociological habitat consisting of small tribes for a very long timescale compared to the duration of time in which we've been living in larger communities, so IMO it makes sense to call the former our "natural" state, particularly when you consider the argument from the Monkeysphere article I linked to previously that deals with the number of members of our species that we recognize as distinct people, and states that this is capped at a fairly low number, further making the case that a smaller community is more ideal for us.  :shrug:


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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: Is a Utopian Society possible in America? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14067853 - 03/04/11 07:12 PM (13 years, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

I'll agree that it seems natural given population growth that we'd eventually build cities capable of hosting many more of us, but that kind of living is not what we're evolutionarily designed for




Evolutionarily designed for?  Sounds fishy to me.  If small societies were able to compete with large societies, we would still have thriving small societies.  But we dont, so I dont see how you can claim that is what we were designed for.




Look what large societies do, and how they form. The United States would still be a series of largely independant states if we didn't have a federal government doing its damndest to dissolve the checks and balances and control tightly through finances and laws the "separate" states. The UK didn't own Ireland because people wanted a larger society.


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I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

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