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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Ygor]
    #14053913 - 03/02/11 10:53 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ygor said:
Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Salt's usefullness is infinite, and it is universal.




This is why every household will have several kilos of salt on hand, at all times.


Wait, what?




I challenge you to find a house that doesnt have salt in it.  Hence it being universally used.


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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: badchad]
    #14053934 - 03/02/11 10:57 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Salt's usefullness is infinite, and it is universal.




Beyond seasoning food, it's essentially useless to me.

And at my current wages, I'd probably bring in 2,000 pounds of salt per week.  How would I even get that home OR move it for any sort of trade?  And how would I know how much salt is equivalent to a new car?  Meh, I have some idea now, but that's only because of the paper currency standard.




You fail to see what im taking about.. If money were not an issue, and people couldnt obtain salts by regular means (going to the store.)  You would become very popular.  And its just an idea, Im not totally serious about salt being the one and grand master currency.  I was talking about a barter system.. Im sorry if I confused you.


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OfflineYgor
Cyberite Sybarite
Male


Registered: 03/01/11 Happy 13th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053965 - 03/02/11 11:04 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Ooh, I see now. This salt currency is being used in a post-apocalyptic wasteland scenario.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about practical alternatives.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,374
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053977 - 03/02/11 11:06 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

No, I got your point.  I was merely illustrating how a barter system still involved the physical distribution, transfer, and storage of goods.  I'm sorry if I confused you.

Beyond that, haggling and bartering for goods sucks.  Ever been to a less developed country and tried to haggle prices, and/or barter for goods?  Its not fun at all.  It's like buying a car, but for every item you need.  This also requires knowledge of all types of services and goods to know their relative value.

IMO an agreed upon paper standard is superior in every way except long term storage.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleSubetai
Nigerian Prince
Male

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 14
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053991 - 03/02/11 11:08 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

The barter system is utterly useless unless you have something I want and vice-versa.  Also many items I would want to barter for (ie; food) are perishable, and if the local barter system is built on perishable items, saving for more expensive and hard to find goods becomes impossible.

A barter system is highly limited.  That's why barter transactions only predominate in pre-industrial societies.


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"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: paper money. [Re: Subetai]
    #14054011 - 03/02/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Subetai said:
OK, so lets assume for the moment that fiat currency is worthless.  What should currency be backed with instead?  Gold seems to be a popular choice, from what I have seen.

But what is the intrinsic worth of gold?  Doesn't gold also only derive its value from society as well, that people see gold as desirable in the first place?

And the, the same could be said of silver.  Or diamonds.  Or scrap metal...

...oh dear God...

Everything is valueless!  There is no truth anywhere!  It is all nothing, merde, dirt!  There is nothing left to live for, except to dress in black, write depressingly bad poetry and muse on the meaningless of existence while drinking expensive coffee!

Damn you.  Damn you, fiat currency.




Nope, can't be said of silver or gold really, as it is useful and has an application.

Although Silver is way more applicable than gold it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_11_element

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Ygor]
    #14054013 - 03/02/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ygor said:
Ooh, I see now. This salt currency is being used in a post-apocalyptic wasteland scenario.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about practical alternatives.




No we are talking besides the psychological grip on the mind that it holds, money is actually not a practical item.....  It woud help maybe if you read the original post up at the top.... And badchad I agree and disagree.  Its hard to change things so ingrained in people's minds, but at the same time its working great for everyone right?  Economies around the world are on the up an up.


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OfflineYgor
Cyberite Sybarite
Male


Registered: 03/01/11 Happy 13th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14054237 - 03/02/11 12:01 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
money is actually not a practical item..... 




Really? I personally solve most of my debt-related issues with money. Very practical.

How is paying people with salt working out for you? Practical much?


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Ygor]
    #14054255 - 03/02/11 12:05 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

[edit: flames removed, member warned]

Edited by geokills (03/03/11 09:44 AM)

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
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Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14054262 - 03/02/11 12:07 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

And you will always be in debt.. Can you guess why?  :awenuhuh:


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OfflineYgor
Cyberite Sybarite
Male


Registered: 03/01/11 Happy 13th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14054321 - 03/02/11 12:19 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I don't think there's any need for flaming.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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InvisibleSubetai
Nigerian Prince
Male

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 14
Re: paper money. [Re: teknix]
    #14054368 - 03/02/11 12:30 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Nope, can't be said of silver or gold really, as it is useful and has an application.

Although Silver is way more applicable than gold it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_11_element




Are you suggesting paper and ink do not have uses or applications?


--------------------
"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: paper money. [Re: Subetai]
    #14054932 - 03/02/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

The ink on it is pretty unusables for anything I can think of, it's worth the paper to start a fire like someone said, but you can get way better fire starting material that has fuel on it for cheaper.




Edited by teknix (03/02/11 02:30 PM)

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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,085
Re: paper money. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14054937 - 03/02/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

If money didnt inflate, people would horde it instead of putting it in other real forms of wealth which equates to investment.





I disagree! If money didnt inflate people would have more to invest with, and they would have the luxury of being able to invest more wisely without the constant eroding of both their investment and their earnings.

Would you invest any less if money didnt inflate? I think you'd invest more since you'd have more and it would yield more, so that when retirement comes you not just have the bread, you have the cheese to put on the bread.

Do YOU, personally, need the lashes with the whip of inflation to make you invest harder? I think you'd invest as much as you can under any condition (and yes we agree that is a good thing)

Its not freedom when you are FORCED to do it, its coercion. Inflation is SLAVERY.

You could add a whole new direction in your portfolio if you were suddenly given back the wealth taken from you by inflation. So how is inflation helping you?


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,374
Re: paper money. [Re: Asante]
    #14055899 - 03/02/11 05:22 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

Would you invest any less if money didnt inflate? I think you'd invest more since you'd have more and it would yield more, so that when retirement comes you not just have the bread, you have the cheese to put on the bread.





Yes.  If money didn't inflate, I would invest less.

My major expense is my house payment.  This payment, however, will remain fixed.  It won't change. 

Over the course of time, my wages will increase, and the home payment will become proportionally smaller to my income.  This will free up more of my income for investing.

And you hit on something else, on an individual level, I barely notice inflation.  Were a billion dollar corporation, you can bet inflation would kick me in the ass to keep the money moving.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14060516 - 03/03/11 02:39 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
[edit: flames removed, member warned]




LOL  :rockon:


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OfflineUniversalParadox
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 397
Loc: Placement
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14066841 - 03/04/11 03:11 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

$1


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xM��
� �V� �c�R��H�P

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OfflineLuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 4,705
Loc: The Bowels of Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 16 days
Re: paper money. [Re: UniversalParadox]
    #14085277 - 03/08/11 05:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

paper money is a perfect example of real magick at work....

take a regular, worthless piece of paper, have some people put some special symbols on it... and VOILA, you have one of the most powerful/important/dangerous things in the world

:kingtard:


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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.

Edited by LuSiD9 (03/08/11 06:12 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: paper money. [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14085823 - 03/08/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The more useful something is as a commodity, the useful it is as money.  The idea that it's "worthless" is precisely the point.  It's supposed to facilitate the exchange of commodities, not be a commodity.  Besides, most money isn't even paper.  Most of it is just information in a database.


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OfflineUniversalParadox
Stranger Than Fiction

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 397
Loc: Placement
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Silversoul]
    #14086120 - 03/08/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Without a doubt it's not useless....we use it, right?

It currently works...to an extent.

PMs FTW.


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xM��
� �V� �c�R��H�P

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