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Invisiblelysergicasians
Revolutionary.
Male


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 50
paper money.
    #14053088 - 03/02/11 07:16 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)



what do you think?

Edited by lysergicasians (03/02/11 07:36 AM)

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14053097 - 03/02/11 07:19 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

The word for this is FIAT currency, and yes I agree.  No practical use at all unless you want to make a small fire.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: paper money. [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14053122 - 03/02/11 07:33 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I find that it has quite a lot of uses and is far from worthless.  I am able to trade it for food, shelter, drugs, transportation - just about anything I want.

If you truly do think it is worthless, then I assume you have already given all of your away?

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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: paper money. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14053147 - 03/02/11 07:42 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I find that it has quite a lot of uses and is far from worthless.  I am able to trade it for food, shelter, drugs, transportation - just about anything I want.

If you truly do think it is worthless, then I assume you have already given all of your away?




Because you have been trained to treat it that way?

It's actual value is paper/ink.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: paper money. [Re: teknix]
    #14053171 - 03/02/11 07:50 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Again, if you really believe that then you must just toss it in the recycle bin with the rest of your worthless paper and ink.

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Invisiblelysergicasians
Revolutionary.
Male


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 50
Re: paper money. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14053548 - 03/02/11 09:37 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

[edit: flames removed, member warned]

Edited by geokills (03/02/11 03:21 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: paper money. [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14053564 - 03/02/11 09:40 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Gee, thanks.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,374
Re: paper money. [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14053655 - 03/02/11 09:56 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I'm fine with it.

It provides a standard unit of value that is excellent for trade and redeemable for all my current needs.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineYgor
Cyberite Sybarite
Male


Registered: 03/01/11 Happy 13th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: paper money. [Re: badchad]
    #14053700 - 03/02/11 10:05 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Yes, paper money is a social fiction. It is only worth something because we all agree that it should be worth something.
And yes, it is easier to buy into this social fiction when something as powerful as a government is backing it.

But I have to ask, would anything else be different? Gold only has a value because we all agree that is does. Same with any other commodity.

The only alternative left would seem to be barter. You pull out my abscessed tooth, if I give you these chickens. And we've tried that. It was too limiting. We need the possibility of credit, the liquidity that a fiat currency gives us.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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InvisibleSubetai
Nigerian Prince
Male

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 14
Re: paper money. [Re: badchad]
    #14053727 - 03/02/11 10:09 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

OK, so lets assume for the moment that fiat currency is worthless.  What should currency be backed with instead?  Gold seems to be a popular choice, from what I have seen.

But what is the intrinsic worth of gold?  Doesn't gold also only derive its value from society as well, that people see gold as desirable in the first place?

And the, the same could be said of silver.  Or diamonds.  Or scrap metal...

...oh dear God...

Everything is valueless!  There is no truth anywhere!  It is all nothing, merde, dirt!  There is nothing left to live for, except to dress in black, write depressingly bad poetry and muse on the meaningless of existence while drinking expensive coffee!

Damn you.  Damn you, fiat currency.


--------------------
"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Subetai]
    #14053799 - 03/02/11 10:25 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Subetai said:
OK, so lets assume for the moment that fiat currency is worthless.  What should currency be backed with instead?  Gold seems to be a popular choice, from what I have seen.

But what is the intrinsic worth of gold?  Doesn't gold also only derive its value from society as well, that people see gold as desirable in the first place?

And the, the same could be said of silver.  Or diamonds.  Or scrap metal...

...oh dear God...

Everything is valueless!  There is no truth anywhere!  It is all nothing, merde, dirt!  There is nothing left to live for, except to dress in black, write depressingly bad poetry and muse on the meaningless of existence while drinking expensive coffee!

Damn you.  Damn you, fiat currency.





What about salt?  What about canabis for rope, resins, paper, fuel, and everything else it does? Stuff that actually has value... What are we going to do when the whole shit house goes up in flames?  All that green paper that was so valuable before is shit.. We have to much worthless shit that we dont need these days, we forget about the really important stuff.  Hence we are a consumer/capitalist society.  And all that big business wants you to do is BUY BUY BUY, so they can put fuel in there yacht or private jet, while we, the average prolitariat are exploited for labor.  At the same time it would be a lie for me to sit here and type to you that I do not like some of the innovations that has come from this competition and consumerism, for example i love my I-pod and so on.. Its a tough debate with very little middle ground.  But on another subject coin actually holds value such as silver gold, brass.  The fact is if you have enough you can smelt these coins and make other things.  So coin per say is not valueless in all practicality.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053834 - 03/02/11 10:37 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Just because one likes using fiat currency doesn't mean we are foolish enough to store wealth in it.  Nobody is saying you have to store all of your wealth in fiat currency.  Just about anybody that has any amount of wealth worth saving is going to have it well diversified so that whatever type of shit storm happens, some of it will be protected.  In the mean time, fiat is used for and useful as a medium of exchanging wealth.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: Subetai]
    #14053841 - 03/02/11 10:38 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Subetai said:
There is nothing left to live for, except to dress in black, write depressingly bad poetry and muse on the meaningless of existence while drinking expensive coffee!

Damn you.  Damn you, fiat currency.




HAHAHA DUDE  :laugh2:

Meet you at starbucks  :cheers:


--------------------

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,374
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053849 - 03/02/11 10:39 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

The problem with using randomly selected "useful" goods as currency (e.g. salt) is that they aren't universal.  Also, many "useful" goods are worthless in raw form, and thus worthless to someone that lacks the ability to refine them.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14053865 - 03/02/11 10:44 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Just because one likes using fiat currency doesn't mean we are foolish enough to store wealth in it.  Nobody is saying you have to store all of your wealth in fiat currency.  Just about anybody that has any amount of wealth worth saving is going to have it well diversified so that whatever type of shit storm happens, some of it will be protected.  In the mean time, fiat is used for and useful as a medium of exchanging wealth.




You are right in a way, and I dont disagree with you.  I respect everyone's opinion, and we are all right in a way with this debate... Its a tough subject.. For now it works O.K.  The problem with money is always going to be inflation, as more money is pumped out to keep up with demand, It simply looses value.


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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: badchad]
    #14053874 - 03/02/11 10:45 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
The problem with using randomly selected "useful" goods as currency (e.g. salt) is that they aren't universal.  Also, many "useful" goods are worthless in raw form, and thus worthless to someone that lacks the ability to refine them.




Salt's usefullness is infinite, and it is universal.


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OfflineYgor
Cyberite Sybarite
Male


Registered: 03/01/11 Happy 13th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053883 - 03/02/11 10:48 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Salt's usefullness is infinite, and it is universal.




This is why every household will have several kilos of salt on hand, at all times.


Wait, what?


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14053884 - 03/02/11 10:48 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

It simply looses value.




Why is that a problem?  If money didnt inflate, people would horde it instead of putting it in other real forms of wealth which equates to investment.  Simply put,  hoarding slows and economy and investing grows it.  Thats why its good to have currency inflate at a low and predictable rate.  The trouble comes with deflation, then people hoard, or fast inflation which creates panic to get rid of the money.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: paper money. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14053909 - 03/02/11 10:51 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

It simply looses value.




Why is that a problem?  If money didnt inflate, people would horde it instead of putting it in other real forms of wealth which equates to investment.  Simply put,  hoarding slows and economy and investing grows it.  Thats why its good to have currency inflate at a low and predictable rate.  The trouble comes with deflation, then people hoard, or fast inflation which creates panic to get rid of the money.




You just answered your own question...


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,374
Re: paper money. [Re: The Inner Eye] * 1
    #14053910 - 03/02/11 10:53 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Salt's usefullness is infinite, and it is universal.




Beyond seasoning food, it's essentially useless to me.

And at my current wages, I'd probably bring in 2,000 pounds of salt per week.  How would I even get that home OR move it for any sort of trade?  And how would I know how much salt is equivalent to a new car?  Meh, I have some idea now, but that's only because of the paper currency standard.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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