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InvisibleveggieM

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Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study
    #14053511 - 03/02/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study
March 2, 2011 - BBC

Using cannabis as a teenager or young adult increases the risk of psychosis, a report suggests.

The study published in the British Medical Journal involved tracking 1,900 people over a period of 10 years.

Although the link between cannabis and psychosis is well-established, it had been unclear whether cannabis triggers the disorder.

This research strongly suggests that cannabis use comes first, rather than people taking it for their symptoms.

The research was led by Professor Jim van Os from Maastricht University in the Netherlands, and included researchers from the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and the UK.

They excluded anyone who reported cannabis use or pre-existing psychotic symptoms at the start of the study, which took place in Germany.

The participants in the study, aged between 14 and 24, were assessed for cannabis use and psychotic symptoms at three points over a 10-year period.

It found that cannabis use "significantly" increased the risk of psychotic symptoms, even when other factors such as socio-economic status, use of different drugs and other psychiatric conditions were taken into account.

Skunk

Sir Robin Murray, professor of psychiatric research at the Institute of Psychiatry, said the study added "a further brick to the wall of evidence" showing that use of traditional cannabis is a contributory cause of psychoses like schizophrenia.

He said it was one of 10 prospective studies all pointing in this same direction.

However it did not answer the question of whether skunk and other potent types of cannabis carried a higher risk of psychosis than traditional resin and marijuana, he added.

Peter Kinderman, professor of clinical psychology at the University of Liverpool, agreed the study offered more evidence of the psychotic risks from cannabis.

Three years ago the Labour government reclassified cannabis up to Class B from C - against the advice of its own drug advisers who said cannabis played only a "modest" role in the development of psychotic illnesses.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: veggie]
    #14053555 - 03/02/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What's everyone think about this study?

The mention of skunk set off my BS detector right away.


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InvisibleJohn NadaDiscord
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Heffy]
    #14053703 - 03/02/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't read the study but I believe it through personal experience.


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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #14053766 - 03/02/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

why don't you read the paper and decide if its bullshit, here it is http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d738.full

all its saying is cannabis use raises the risk of incidence and persistence of psychotic symptoms, that is quite different from the title the reporter chose "Cannabis use raises psychosis risk"

the paper mentions that normal non cannabis exposed individuals experience transient subthreshold psychotic experiences as part of adolescent development and suggests that cannabis may exacerbate this

the paper also mentions "that childhood trauma, urban environment, and cannabis act additively in increasing the risk of persistence of psychotic experiences" so the fact that living in an urban environment is also a risk factor calls into question how big of a risk factor cannabis really is

i dont believe the risk between cannabis use and psychosis/mental problems in general is bullshit as cannabis clearly does effect some people more than others. However even if it is a risk it is clearly only a very small risk,

this is another case of some reporter cherry picking some choice phrases from a scientific paper and distorting and sensationalising what the paper is actually saying


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OfflineHumility
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: John Nada]
    #14053793 - 03/02/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I"M FREAKING OUT MAN!!!!


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14053839 - 03/02/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

said the study added "a further brick to the wall of evidence" showing that use of traditional cannabis is a contributory cause of psychoses like schizophrenia.





but there's also many studies that show don't show a link and that pot helps people with schizophrenia. and if use raises the risk how come the percent of people with schizophrenia has remained stable as pot use rises or falls.


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OfflineDiacetylmentlegen
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14054063 - 03/02/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And I suppose tobacco addicts are all completely sane? Ugh...


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OfflineOzymandihash
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Diacetylmentlegen]
    #14054105 - 03/02/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

meh, one has to read the whole study and see what was the protocol, otherwise it' snothing but propaganda.

Quote:

It found that cannabis use "significantly" increased the risk of psychotic symptoms, even when other factors such as socio-economic status, use of different drugs and other psychiatric conditions were taken into account.





This above makes me strongly doubt about the seriousness of the study.


Irie !


--------------------
"To forbid or even seriously to restrict the use of so gracious an herb as hemp would cause widespread suffering and annoyance and to large bands of worshipped ascetics, deep-seated anger. It would rob the people of a solace in discomfort, of a cure in sickness, of a guardian whose gracious protection saves them from the attacks of evil influences, and whose mightly power makes the devotee of the Victorious, overcoming the demons of hunger and thirst, of panic, fear, of the glamour of Maya or matter, and of madness, able in rest to brood on the Eternal, till the Eternal,possessing him body and soul, frees him from the haunting of self and receives him into the Ocean of Being." Indian Hemp Drugs Commission


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Invisible5-HT2A

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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Heffy]
    #14054308 - 03/02/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
What's everyone think about this study?

The mention of skunk set off my BS detector right away.




Skunk is a strain of cannabis deliberately bread to have very high % THC, but a low % of CBD. THC is a euphoriant AND a psychotic, and CBD is an antipsychotic. There is a study that used CBD to TREAT schizophrenia with comparable efficacy and fewer side effects than the atypical anti-psychotics.

Normally, CBD balances out the paranoia from THC and you get a calm, relaxing experience in which creativity is boosted due to the small amount of remaining psychotic effects from THC, which is too small to count as an illness. As you may know, creative people are more susceptible to mental illness because in a sense they may have fewer "filters," a type of creative advantage also created by cannabis.

Frequent exposure of large amounts of skunk multiple times per day daily for a period of years in predisposed users does increase psychosis risk, and you would expect that. In the general population, I doubt it has that effect even at that level of consumption. When the level of CBD rises sufficiently in comparison to THC, the relationship between cannabis and psychosis disappears even in predisposed users, according to another study. Sorry I can't find the abstracts in my bookmarks.

PS - A psychotic episode is distinct from psychosis because it is only a brief period of paranoia that subsides when the effects of the drug subside and almost never requires medical attention. AKA "yo I'm really high man...is somebody coming up the stairs?"

That about sums it up.


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Offlinesporophight
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #14054588 - 03/02/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

5-HT2A said:
Skunk is a strain of cannabis deliberately bread to have very high % THC, but a low % of CBD.




Can you provide a reference that skunk has low levels of CBD? I've never heard this and from my experience, it's simply not true. Any time i've smoked skunk I find it to be more sedating than other strains which makes me assume the CBD levels are moderate if not above average in relation to THC.


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Offlinethedream
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: sporophight]
    #14054778 - 03/02/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What you see here is just more bullshit the government is clinging on to, trying to justify why marijuana is illegal. The moral of this article is pot is not for everybody. Pay no mind to it and keep :bigblunt: if it feels right to you!!


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OfflineOzymandihash
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: sporophight]
    #14054787 - 03/02/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Most commercial strains in the two past decades have bred for THC first, but Skunk is definitely not a strain containing "very high" level of THC. Since a few years, some breeders have started to work on strains with higher CBD percentages, for different therapeutic uses. Lots of therapeutic potential also in non-cannabinoid terpens (which give the different flavours), surface has only been scratched so far, more to come & learn about in the future !

Strains able to induce unwanted effect would be those haze-influenced and mostly sativa ones, such as Thai, Souht African or some Colombian strains for instance. I remember once in A'dam, I smoked a fat one of imported Swazi buds and I felt like I was on strong speed for several hours.

In cannabis you can find a whole range of effect, from strongly sedating to extremely stimulating and everything in between. Some also are known to induce short psychotic episodes if overindulged and those are certainly not the type of weed kids or newbies should do.

Does this study mentions what strain of cannabis was consumed by the subjects ? If not, then it's meaningless, period.

Irie !


--------------------
"To forbid or even seriously to restrict the use of so gracious an herb as hemp would cause widespread suffering and annoyance and to large bands of worshipped ascetics, deep-seated anger. It would rob the people of a solace in discomfort, of a cure in sickness, of a guardian whose gracious protection saves them from the attacks of evil influences, and whose mightly power makes the devotee of the Victorious, overcoming the demons of hunger and thirst, of panic, fear, of the glamour of Maya or matter, and of madness, able in rest to brood on the Eternal, till the Eternal,possessing him body and soul, frees him from the haunting of self and receives him into the Ocean of Being." Indian Hemp Drugs Commission


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Invisible5-HT2A

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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: sporophight]
    #14055049 - 03/02/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sporophight said:
Quote:

5-HT2A said:
Skunk is a strain of cannabis deliberately bread to have very high % THC, but a low % of CBD.




Can you provide a reference that skunk has low levels of CBD? I've never heard this and from my experience, it's simply not true. Any time i've smoked skunk I find it to be more sedating than other strains which makes me assume the CBD levels are moderate if not above average in relation to THC.




It's commonly known. THC is a psychotic, CBD is an antipsychotic. THC alone is very unpleasant. The strains have been bread in such a way so as to maximize profits as CBD mutes the effects of THC to the extent that if you have enough you'll hardly feel high at all as CBD is not psychoactive aside from being an antipsych.

See here: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/59872/title/Not_just_a_high --- this refers to North American strains but the situation in England is the same

Quote:


Apart from being an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant, CBD tones down the psychoactive effect of THC without eliminating its medical properties. CBD also mutes the occasional anxiety and even paranoia that THC can induce. This has been welcome news to scientists, who consider the “buzz” of cannabis little more than psychoactive baggage.

But CBD has paid a price for this anti-upper effect. “CBD has essentially been bred out of North American black market drug strains,” Russo says. People growing cannabis for its recreational qualities have preferred plants high in THC...




Also I wouldn't describe THC as "stimulating." It could be you don't actually know what you're getting as most dealers don't know what shit they have anyhow, despite their claims. I also believe, though can't cite, that THC reduces serotonin/dopamine availability in certain areas so as to cause sedation, despite still causing the release of dopamine in the pleasure center initially in the experience.

Click below for one last example. I think they screw up and called CBD "cannabanoid" which is just a general category of chemicals, but the intended word was cannabidiol.



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Offlinesporophight
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #14055732 - 03/02/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

5-HT2A said:

It's commonly known. THC is a psychotic, CBD is an anti-psychotic. THC alone is very unpleasant. The strains have been bread in such a way so as to maximize profits as CBD mutes the effects of THC to the extent that if you have enough you'll hardly feel high at all as CBD is not psychoactive aside from being an antipsych.

See here: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/59872/title/Not_just_a_high --- this refers to North American strains but the situation in England is the same

Quote:


Apart from being an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant, CBD tones down the psychoactive effect of THC without eliminating its medical properties. CBD also mutes the occasional anxiety and even paranoia that THC can induce. This has been welcome news to scientists, who consider the “buzz” of cannabis little more than psychoactive baggage.

But CBD has paid a price for this anti-upper effect. “CBD has essentially been bred out of North American black market drug strains,” Russo says. People growing cannabis for its recreational qualities have preferred plants high in THC...




Also I wouldn't describe THC as "stimulating." It could be you don't actually know what you're getting as most dealers don't know what shit they have anyhow, despite their claims. I also believe, though can't cite, that THC reduces serotonin/dopamine availability in certain areas so as to cause sedation, despite still causing the release of dopamine in the pleasure center initially in the experience.





It isn't common knowledge as you may have been led to believe. The general population would not know that skunk has low CBD levels. I don't think it is a fact that CBD is not psychoactive. Although, I can't disprove it as i can not isolate CBD.In fact now that I think about it, if it is anti-psychotic that would mean it has to be psychoactive I'm pretty sure. It either is or isn't psychoactive. i'm leaning towards is.

As for your reference, although it may have been written by an American most of its references are from English studies.

Quote:



Also I wouldn't describe THC as "stimulating." It could be you don't actually know what you're getting as most dealers don't know what shit they have anyhow, despite their claims. I also believe, though can't cite, that THC reduces serotonin/dopamine availability in certain areas so as to cause sedation, despite still causing the release of dopamine in the pleasure center initially in the experience.




:awewtf:  So how do you account for weed with stimulating, non-sedating effects if THC isn't stimulating?


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: sporophight]
    #14055926 - 03/02/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

AFAIK THC is somewhat stimulating. A lot of strains of weed have THCV in it, too - which is, by all accounts - more stimulating than regular THC.

Also I've read there's as much as 100 other cannbanoids present in different strains weed to varying degrees. In the same way that the various synthetic cannbanoids have different "highs" ranging from sedating to stimulating (with all different levels of "trippy" added in when you mix them), there's most likely a whole host of natural cannbanoids present in every strain of weed that have various "highs" in relation to one another.

And this isn't even taking into account how differently people react to various cannbanoids and "drugs" in general.


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Edited by Remix (03/02/11 05:30 PM)


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Offlinesporophight
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Remix]
    #14055940 - 03/02/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
AFAIK THC is somewhat stimulating. A lot of strains of weed have THCV in it, too - which is, by all accounts - more stimulating than regular THC.

Also I've read there's as much as 100 other cannbanoids present in different strains weed to varying degrees. In the same way that the various synthetic cannbanoids have different "highs" ranging from sedating to stimulating (with all different levels of "trippy" added in when you mix them), there's most likely a whole host of natural cannbanoids present in every strain of weed that have various "highs" in relation to one another.

And this isn't even taking into account how differently people react to various cannbanoids in general.




Good Points:thumbup:


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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #14056085 - 03/02/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

THC does have somewhat stimulating qualities, it downregulates GABAergic neurotransmission and so increases cell excitability which may explain its greater tenancy to cause anxiety and paranoia than cbd


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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14056166 - 03/02/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Spiderbaby said:
THC does have somewhat stimulating qualities, it downregulates GABAergic neurotransmission and so increases cell excitability which may explain its greater tenancy to cause anxiety and paranoia than cbd




Interesting...I've got some reading to do.


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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: sporophight]
    #14056224 - 03/02/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah it downregulates GABA signalling by decreasing extracellular GABA levels, it also increases extracellular glutamate levels which would further contribute to its stimulatory effects


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Offlinewre
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14056374 - 03/02/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey anyone know if there any study s or evidence that shows that alcohol raises "psychosis/mental illness rick" because I'm sure it would and be a higher risk with booze


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InvisibleveggieM

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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: wre]
    #14056662 - 03/02/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know of any study offhand. I'm sure there are hundreds. Alcohol psychosis is very common.


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OfflineOzymandihash
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: veggie]
    #14058005 - 03/03/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Also I've read there's as much as 100 other cannbanoids present in different strains weed to varying degrees. In the same way that the various synthetic cannbanoids have different "highs" ranging from sedating to stimulating (with all different levels of "trippy" added in when you mix them), there's most likely a whole host of natural cannbanoids present in every strain of weed that have various "highs" in relation to one another.




I guess that by "cannbanoids" you mean "cannabinoids". Let's not forget about non-cannabinoid terpens (limonene, citral and so on). These plays some role too in the different effects.

Quote:

The strains have been bread in such a way so as to maximize profits as CBD mutes the effects of THC to the extent that if you have enough you'll hardly feel high at all as CBD is not psychoactive aside from being an antipsych.




I'm not sure we can say that CBD is not psychoactive, less than THC it is, but not, I don't think so. One of the strongest hash I've ever smoked was garda from Shebarghan (N. Afghanistan), made from high CBD strains and I could definitely feel it.

I think it's irrevelant to talk about THC or CBD alone when daling with cannabis potency, for the thae effect is the result of interaction between the different cannabinoids AND the non-cannabinoid terpens.

Quote:

Frequent exposure of large amounts of skunk multiple times per day daily for a period of years in predisposed users does increase psychosis risk,




I'm sorry but doesn't mean anything. Skunk is one strain among litteraly THOUSANDS of commercial strains. regrouping all these under one single appelation is nonsense. You just can't compare a durban poison with a chitrali strain, it's two different world.


Also, one thing these studies never take into account, beside what kind of cannabis is smoked, is how cured the used product is.
Most of the weed commercialy available hasn't been given proper curing time (no dealer or commercial grower is going to wait one to three months before selling their stock !), and that is something crucial, for the curing allows certain chemical reactions to take place, reactions which eliminate, or reduce, the amount of unwanted compounds, those very same able to induce unwanted effects.

I've verified it myself more than once, with just dry weed producing unpleasant effect, where as one or two months later it was all good.
If you go to Himachal, Pakistan or Afghanistan (places with a much long histtory of use, and greater knowledge about the product than us) all charsees will tell you, smoking too young, uncured garda/charas is not good for the mind.


Irie !


--------------------
"To forbid or even seriously to restrict the use of so gracious an herb as hemp would cause widespread suffering and annoyance and to large bands of worshipped ascetics, deep-seated anger. It would rob the people of a solace in discomfort, of a cure in sickness, of a guardian whose gracious protection saves them from the attacks of evil influences, and whose mightly power makes the devotee of the Victorious, overcoming the demons of hunger and thirst, of panic, fear, of the glamour of Maya or matter, and of madness, able in rest to brood on the Eternal, till the Eternal,possessing him body and soul, frees him from the haunting of self and receives him into the Ocean of Being." Indian Hemp Drugs Commission


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Invisible5-HT2A

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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: Ozymandihash]
    #14058444 - 03/03/11 05:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


I'm sorry but doesn't mean anything. Skunk is one strain among litteraly THOUSANDS of commercial strains. regrouping all these under one single appelation is nonsense. You just can't compare a durban poison with a chitrali strain, it's two different world.




Calm down sling blade. Obviously I was referring to strains with a particularly high THC:CBD ratio.


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InvisibleSociety
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Re: Cannabis use 'raises psychosis risk' - study [Re: wre]
    #14059466 - 03/03/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wre said:
Hey anyone know if there any study s or evidence that shows that alcohol raises "psychosis/mental illness rick" because I'm sure it would and be a higher risk with booze




Why is that?  Because you personally enjoy cannabis more than drinking and "know" it's a better, safer drug?

Alcohol psychosis is almost always from extraordinarily heavy consumption or withdrawal.  The psychosis is almost unanimously only experienced by people with previously reported alcolism.

And here's the kicker to hopefully exacerbate your qualms about research exposing potentially negative aspects of your beloved cannabis:

Quote:

Those with first-episode psychosis are twice more likely than the general population to present with comorbid substance abuse and are more commonly males than females. The most commonly reported substance is cannabis (51%) followed by alcohol (43%).3




So there ya have it, my brethren or sisteren.  Cannabis leads the first-episode drug-induced psychosis frequency parade by far.

How about looking at drug research objectively instead of getting upset any time research exposes something that counteracts your delusions or wishes that cannabis and psychedelics are risk-free, perfect gifts bestowed on the human race?  Yeah, all psychoactive drugs have RISKS.  Imagine that shit.


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