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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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So why can I dream a world better than this one?
#14051482 - 03/01/11 09:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why do I have dreams and even hallucinations that are far more advanced, interesting, safe, loving, full of mystery and adventure, and not to mention outstanding beauty, than any of what my waking brain takes in? I mean, theoretically, couldn't the brain just choose to make it a whole other world, as in dreams, while awake? I don't even aspire to these worlds, they come to me, and they seem like something more likely for a divine universe to produce. Only on mushrooms have I seen this world changed into an amazing hologram that was simply an extension of my consciousness.
I mean, what the shit? What's going on? Surely there's a way to just make it all happen your way.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14051504 - 03/01/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've wondered this myself and more. My dreams are the shit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14051737 - 03/01/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You could have amazing 'brain in a vat' dreams. But someone not in your make-believe world has to keep pupmping in the glucose or the dreams end in short order.
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14051753 - 03/01/11 10:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ever watch the movie The City of Lost Children?
The City of Lost Children(La cité des enfants perdus) 1995R 112 minutes With a mad scientist kidnapping children to steal their dreams, only brave young Miette (Judith Vittet) and a kindhearted circus strongman (Ron Perlman) can save them. Part fantasy, part nightmare, this production used more special effects than any other French film to date. Featuring stunning visuals from directors Jean-Pierre Jeunet and Marc Caro, the sci-fi fairy tale was nominated for a Golden Palm at the Cannes Film Festival.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (03/01/11 10:44 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14051763 - 03/01/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No. Is it about the Mystery Forum?
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deCypher



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14052108 - 03/01/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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The movie any good?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: deCypher] 1
#14052201 - 03/01/11 11:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, it got a RosyPalm Award...
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes] 1
#14052473 - 03/02/11 12:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: Why do I have dreams and even hallucinations that are far more advanced, interesting, safe, loving, full of mystery and adventure, and not to mention outstanding beauty, than any of what my waking brain takes in? I mean, theoretically, couldn't the brain just choose to make it a whole other world, as in dreams, while awake? I don't even aspire to these worlds, they come to me, and they seem like something more likely for a divine universe to produce. Only on mushrooms have I seen this world changed into an amazing hologram that was simply an extension of my consciousness.
I mean, what the shit? What's going on? Surely there's a way to just make it all happen your way.
interesting, loving, mystery are all subjective states of mind. You are bored with your life and want to escape it.
Why not just marvel at the fact that anything exists at all?
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huxmush
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: deCypher]
#14053124 - 03/02/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The movie any good?
I thought it was good enough to buy on DVD. If this seems intriguing, you'll probably like it:
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Lord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14053151 - 03/02/11 07:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: Why do I have dreams and even hallucinations that are far more advanced, interesting, safe, loving, full of mystery and adventure, and not to mention outstanding beauty, than any of what my waking brain takes in? I mean, theoretically, couldn't the brain just choose to make it a whole other world, as in dreams, while awake? I don't even aspire to these worlds, they come to me, and they seem like something more likely for a divine universe to produce. Only on mushrooms have I seen this world changed into an amazing hologram that was simply an extension of my consciousness.
I mean, what the shit? What's going on? Surely there's a way to just make it all happen your way.
The CoN is responsible for this suppression. Awaken to your yeti heritage and you will see the truth.
-------------------- Viva las Vegas.
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Lord Amok]
#14053269 - 03/02/11 08:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just make it all happen your way? By wishing it?
Sounds like The Secret.
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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Cups
technically "here"


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Ygor]
#14053290 - 03/02/11 08:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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^^ My brother is massage therapist and comes into contact with a lot of new age type people who "recommend" stuff to him all the time.
We watched 15 minutes of this on netflix and just turned it off.
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: deCypher]
#14053351 - 03/02/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The movie any good?
It's an amazing dream like fantasy. Mindblowing imo. I've seen it several times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14053356 - 03/02/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some minds are more easily blown than others. Try installing a 20 amp fuse.
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MelloRed


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14053373 - 03/02/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's all in your head. And sure, you can delude yourself and make your reality whatever you want. It won't really change anything though.
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14053542 - 03/02/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: Why do I have dreams and even hallucinations that are far more advanced, interesting, safe, loving, full of mystery and adventure, and not to mention outstanding beauty, than any of what my waking brain takes in? I mean, theoretically, couldn't the brain just choose to make it a whole other world, as in dreams, while awake? I don't even aspire to these worlds, they come to me, and they seem like something more likely for a divine universe to produce. Only on mushrooms have I seen this world changed into an amazing hologram that was simply an extension of my consciousness.
I mean, what the shit? What's going on? Surely there's a way to just make it all happen your way.
I'm hoping we get some more input on this fascinating question.
One thing that I though about was the novelty factor and how our world might appear to someone from another reality or a newborn child. The world seemed much more vibrant when I was younger. I think I've become jaded with familiarity. Our dreams are forever new for the most part. Like seeing earth for the first time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14053580 - 03/02/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Exactly. Consider this: a child is completely fascinated by pretty much everything because it's new. As a person grows older, they become more conditioned, more jaded, but as soon as you change your perspective (or take a psychedelic) you can become mesmerized by a blade of grass. So really, it just depends on how you look at it.
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: learningtofly]
#14053676 - 03/02/11 10:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think you nailed it.
The next question I guess is how does our dreaming brain put together such unusual and fascinating worlds and scenarios?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DisoRDeR
motional



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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14054064 - 03/02/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Surely there's a way to just make it all happen your way.
Go back to sleep?
Just consider waking life to be your dream-machine maintenance cycle.
I suspect that somewhere along the line brains have produced dream worlds in the waking state. Those humans likely starved, absent of others' compassion, and even more likely, failed to reproduce, throwing spears at hallucinations and being unable to find common ground with their peers.
Dreams are easy. It's difficult (impossible?) to manipulate this world without exerting effort.
More advanced, you say? Why do you interpret your dreamworld as advanced? Your other descriptors point to entertainment. Is it effortless entertainment you seek?
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giza


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: DisoRDeR]
#14055200 - 03/02/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe dreams are your mind's way to see if you are truly 'happy' Maybe when you accept dreams and want them to be your reality, you die.
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14055260 - 03/02/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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circastes
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14055275 - 03/02/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the interesting replies.
More advanced, you say? Why do you interpret your dreamworld as advanced? Your other descriptors point to entertainment. Is it effortless entertainment you seek? Yeah, haha, you could put it that way.
It's advanced technologically over this one. And socially. Everyone is together, harmony is felt, everything is built beautifully, it's like an alternate timeline of my current life.
Maybe dreams are your mind's way to see if you are truly 'happy' Maybe when you accept dreams and want them to be your reality, you die.
That was kind of interesting.
But I have to admit it I still don't get it, and this is the real question I was asking - why isn't it all up to us? The brain is capable, the spirit is capable... And I've seen it change with my mind... Why am I stuck?
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14055298 - 03/02/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe because it isn't about "you". You are just an emergent property of a brain that is involved in something else.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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giza


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14055334 - 03/02/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe dreams are death.. We do not technically 'exist' in dreams so wouldn't we be 'dead'? Time doesn't seem to exist in dreams either.
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learningtofly
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14055738 - 03/02/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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what?
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giza


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: learningtofly]
#14055864 - 03/02/11 05:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Since dreams are of the mind they are not of our physical environment. So we do not exist in them as of our body. So since we do not exist in dreams we would be considered 'dead'. So maybe our dreams are what death is like.
Understand?
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14056106 - 03/02/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay try these words..
If death is an out of body experience.. And dreams are an out of body experience..
See how I made the relation?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14056205 - 03/02/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No.
Atoms are made out of quarks. And ducks go "Quark! Quark!" What does this tell us about the orbital properties of feathers?
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: Icelander]
#14056324 - 03/02/11 06:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Maybe because it isn't about "you". You are just an emergent property of a brain that is involved in something else. 
Hmm yeah, well I guess it isn't about me, but then I think, I'm all there is, this is all being done by me to myself, the consciousness is somehow split, creating the autonomy of individuals who play some incredible, sublime survival game (so long as they have to try). And just like in dreams you'll think of something and someone will shout it at you - that's happened to me awake, among other seeming madness. Why won't it happen again? Am I in shock?
The scientific idea, that my very awareness is a kind of mistake, is hilarious in one frame, disasterous in another. IMO!
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14056352 - 03/02/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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In another sense I can't even believe I'm discussing this, because the whole thing is just a 'gigantic fucking mystery' regardless of what you know or have experienced. It's almost paralysing if you stare it in the face, but if you let it in a little bit at a time you sort of become it for a while - the mystery, that is, of any manifestation, ever. Not the hard intellectual problem of Creation, but the simple stark naked realisation that we take too much for granted.
Actually someone mentioned this before...
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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giza


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14056513 - 03/02/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Going a little further on my other post..
Noticed this because I've seen some threads saying that they don't dream if they get high, when they're high they're content.
If a person is completely content with their life, what good are dreams? - When completely content you'd want to stay awake longer. The better the dreams I would think the more a person would want to dream. And since people are needed to keep this 'age' going I could see why this doesn't happen more often.
To recognize you are needed gives your life meaning.
If we were all able to escape this reality by dreaming, everyone would stay asleep.
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DisoRDeR
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14057108 - 03/02/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: Thanks for the interesting replies.
More advanced, you say? Why do you interpret your dreamworld as advanced? Your other descriptors point to entertainment. Is it effortless entertainment you seek? Yeah, haha, you could put it that way.
It's advanced technologically over this one. And socially. Everyone is together, harmony is felt, everything is built beautifully, it's like an alternate timeline of my current life.
The content of your dreams need not accord with a causal chain. I'm sure it appears more advanced and harmonious, but perhaps that is because it is a collage of overlapping ideals held in your mind. If you can manage some control and scrutiny of your dreams, it may all dissolve as you scrape away the veneer.
maybe
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Lord Amok
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes] 1
#14057350 - 03/02/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: In another sense I can't even believe I'm discussing this, because the whole thing is just a 'gigantic fucking mystery' regardless of what you know or have experienced. It's almost paralysing if you stare it in the face, but if you let it in a little bit at a time you sort of become it for a while - the mystery, that is, of any manifestation, ever. Not the hard intellectual problem of Creation, but the simple stark naked realisation that we take too much for granted.
Actually someone mentioned this before...
I believe this video will answer your questions:
-------------------- Viva las Vegas.
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learningtofly
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14057515 - 03/02/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said: Going a little further on my other post..
Noticed this because I've seen some threads saying that they don't dream if they get high, when they're high they're content.
If a person is completely content with their life, what good are dreams? - When completely content you'd want to stay awake longer. The better the dreams I would think the more a person would want to dream. And since people are needed to keep this 'age' going I could see why this doesn't happen more often.
To recognize you are needed gives your life meaning.
If we were all able to escape this reality by dreaming, everyone would stay asleep.
dude what are you talking about
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wondercat
Dashing


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: learningtofly]
#14062255 - 03/03/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Perhaps you're dreaming of another dimension, like the 5th, where everything is love. Or the future, i've been told things are supposed to improve somewhere along the way.
Watch Waking Life, it could answer some of your questions or it'll at least give you some crazy ideas. its one of my favorite movies. Its very thought provoking.
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it truly is an illusion- your senses are just perceiving the varying vibrations in different ways- its holography; a representation. "Nothing" is easy - Mooji
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Icelander
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: circastes]
#14062599 - 03/03/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Maybe because it isn't about "you". You are just an emergent property of a brain that is involved in something else. 
Hmm yeah, well I guess it isn't about me, but then I think, I'm all there is, this is all being done by me to myself, the consciousness is somehow split, creating the autonomy of individuals who play some incredible, sublime survival game (so long as they have to try). And just like in dreams you'll think of something and someone will shout it at you - that's happened to me awake, among other seeming madness. Why won't it happen again? Am I in shock?
The scientific idea, that my very awareness is a kind of mistake, is hilarious in one frame, disasterous in another. IMO!
Most of us here go though all that in our heads too. It's all "IMO".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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TimmiT


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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: giza]
#14063919 - 03/03/11 11:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said: Since dreams are of the mind they are not of our physical environment. So we do not exist in them as of our body. So since we do not exist in dreams we would be considered 'dead'. So maybe our dreams are what death is like.
To die, to sleep; To sleep, perchance to dream
I like the existentialist view. Reality is a limitation in realising our freedom.
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: So why can I dream a world better than this one? [Re: TimmiT]
#14066090 - 03/04/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
But I have to admit it I still don't get it, and this is the real question I was asking - why isn't it all up to us? The brain is capable, the spirit is capable... And I've seen it change with my mind... Why am I stuck?
because you're programmed into your current reality having the same mindset in reality that you do in dreams would limit your freedom in dreams and make it more like your reality, IMO.
So I would guess the more you expand your mind in reality the more intricate your dreams would become.
Edited by giza (03/04/11 12:31 PM)
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