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Offlinegrib
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Rumsfeld comments
    #1405100 - 03/24/03 07:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Appearing on CBS and seeing the footage of the U.S. POWS, Rumsfeld said, "That's a violation of the Geneva Convention..." He said about the international law on treatment of prisoners of war, which he said prohibits the photographing or interrogation by media of those captured in battle.

Does that mean that the United States is in violation of the Geneva Convention? I have seen many photos and video if Iraqi solders who were captured. The photos and footage of Iraqi POWS were taken in front of US military personnel.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: grib]
    #1405114 - 03/24/03 07:49 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

They are blatantly violating the Geneva convention for their treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo bay.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Phluck]
    #1405119 - 03/24/03 07:51 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

are you sure? are we killing our pow's?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1405134 - 03/24/03 07:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, the US is violating the Geneva convention. No question about it.

And whether the POWS were "executed" is just media hype. I've no doubt you could pick up a thousand Iraqis who were shot at close range by excitable US troops.


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: grib]
    #1405208 - 03/24/03 08:23 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well the US does not follow UN law so I don't think they can really comment about the Geneva Convention. Of course America is guilty of the same crime, they are just pissed off because Iraq is winning the propaganda war. After the POW tapes came out Rumsfeld mentioned bombing Iraqi tv and radio stations...he's pissed.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Phluck]
    #1405216 - 03/24/03 08:25 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They are blatantly violating the Geneva convention for their treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo bay.



if you consider terrorists to be POW's which they are obviously not.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405228 - 03/24/03 08:29 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Why do you consider them terrorists? Because Donald Rumsfield told you they were?

When were they charged?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405229 - 03/24/03 08:29 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

If I recall correctly, they are Afghani soldiers, not terrorists.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Xlea321]
    #1405238 - 03/24/03 08:32 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, the US is violating the Geneva convention. No question about it.




are the troops surrendering to the US being interviewed and humiliated on TV? What the hell are you even talking about? How?
Quote:

And whether the POWS were "executed" is just media hype.



Wow, you are actually able to distinguish between propaganda and media hype. Good for you!
Quote:

I've no doubt you could pick up a thousand Iraqis who were shot at close range by excitable US troops.



nope, wrong, extremely wrong, absolutely wrong, so unbelievably wrong. How can someone be so dumb? Jesus Alpo, there are hundreds of embedded journalists with things called cameras that take pictures. If US soldiers did anything like that we would know about it right away.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Xlea321]
    #1405241 - 03/24/03 08:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Why do you consider them terrorists? Because Donald Rumsfield told you they were?




and you consider them to be what?
Quote:

When were they charged?



shit takes time.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405242 - 03/24/03 08:34 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

nope, wrong, extremely wrong, absolutely wrong, so unbelievably wrong. How can someone be so dumb? Jesus Alpo, there are hundreds of embedded journalists with things called cameras that take pictures. If US soldiers did anything like that we would know about it right away.



Not every platoon has a camera crew with them.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405255 - 03/24/03 08:39 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

are the troops surrendering to the US being interviewed and humiliated on TV?

They are being shown every day walking with their hands on their head. This breaks the geneva convention. Not to mention what horrific abuses are being done to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

Jesus Alpo, there are hundreds of embedded journalists with things called cameras that take pictures.

Do you know what an embedded journalist is? It means he travels with the army and sees exactly what the army wants him to see. If you think there's a reporter walking around with every combat unit in every street in Basra you are even more deranged than you sound. And you sound pretty damn deranged.

If US soldiers did anything like that we would know about it right away.

Well wait a minute, we allegedly knew the Iraqis had done it on the same day. That's pretty quick isn't it? Do you seriously think the Iraqis would show them on TV if they had been executed as you allege?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405271 - 03/24/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus Alpo, there are hundreds of embedded journalists with things called cameras that take pictures. If US soldiers did anything like that we would know about it right away.


You may be unaware that those embedded journalists signed a form saying they agree not only to not take any initiatives (which is almost acceptable for their own security's sake), but also to submit every piece, before airing or sending it, to military censorship. For sure the censors would respect the truth and let pics of summary executions pass through to the general public... or wouldn't they?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: rhizo]
    #1405344 - 03/24/03 09:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Well the US does not follow UN law



The UN doesn't make law.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1405417 - 03/24/03 09:40 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The UN doesn't make law.


Never heard of international law, based upon the UN Charter? No wonder you're in favor of this war...


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Xlea321]
    #1405491 - 03/24/03 10:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not to mention what horrific abuses are being done to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.



Can you name one abuse and back it up? I'm not saying I believe you or don't believe you, but I sure would love something other than speculation.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Offlineflow
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Xlea321]
    #1405493 - 03/24/03 10:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They are being shown every day walking with their hands on their head. This breaks the geneva convention.



the geneva convention only states that POW's can't be publicly humiliated. showing pictures of hundreds of surrendering troops without singling out individuals hardly qualifies. Your telling me there's no difference?
Quote:

Do you know what an embedded journalist is? It means he travels with the army and sees exactly what the army wants him to see. If you think there's a reporter walking around with every combat unit in every street in Basra you are even more deranged than you sound. And you sound pretty damn deranged.




Do you know just how many embedded journalists there are? You claimed that thousands of iraqis have been killed at close range. If that had happened, at least one of these reporters would have seen it. And your claim is ridiculous to begin with.
Quote:

Well wait a minute, we allegedly knew the Iraqis had done it on the same day. That's pretty quick isn't it? Do you seriously think the Iraqis would show them on TV if they had been executed as you allege?



i never said they had been executed, don't put words into my mouth. as far as i know there is no concrete evidence yet that they have been. But one expert who examined the video said that it looked as if at least a few had been killed by a close range gunshot to the forehead.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Aldous]
    #1405505 - 03/24/03 10:16 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

For sure the censors would respect the truth and let pics of summary executions pass through to the general public... or wouldn't they?



YOU ACTUALLY HAVE SOME REASON TO BELIEVE US TROOPS HAVE EXECUTED IRAQI POW'S??? i was merely trying to get the point across that because of the sheer number of embedded journalists, there is no way that this sort of thing could happen without someone coming forward. The journalists are there for their own reasons, to advance their careers. BRINGING A STORY THAT US SOLDIERS KILLED SURRENDERING IRAQI TROOPS WOULD CERTAINLY HELP ADVANCE ANY JOURNALIST IN THE FIELD.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: flow]
    #1405626 - 03/24/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the geneva convention only states that POW's can't be publicly humiliated

No, it states prisoners of war "must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity." I've seen film of individual iraqis being ordered to their knees and told to put their hands on their head. This is a clear breach of the geneva convention.

Do you know just how many embedded journalists there are?

It doesn't matter if there are 5000 if they are are sat waiting back at the hotel until the army decides it is "safe" for them to be brought into front line areas.

But one expert who examined the video said that it looked as if at least a few had been killed by a close range gunshot to the forehead.

So why do you think they showed them on TV? Why do you think they had live POWS there too? Wouldn't they execute them all if they were making a point that they go round executing POWS? Think about it.

It's likely they were shot at close range because that's what happens in war. Just like thousands of iraqis will be shot at close range.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rumsfeld comments [Re: Aldous]
    #1405633 - 03/24/03 10:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Let's see if you can show me where I said I was in favor of the war ***post edited by Rono***
And a resolution isn't the same as law.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by Rono (03/24/03 11:07 AM)


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