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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world.
    #14049332 - 03/01/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yet....their 'peaceful' nuclear program is getting them into serious economic trouble and they have to import uranium, subjecting their own energy needs to an export market that they don't even come close to controlling.

Yeah, sounds real reasonable to me!

They clearly need all those nuclear plants and the sanctions that come with them to prosper as a nation!

:facepalm:





Sources: http://www.eia.gov/cabs/Iran/NaturalGas.html


http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/article3988479.ece

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-12-29-Iran_N.htm

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-iran-seeking-to-smuggle-purified-uranium-1.1152

Edited by AlphaFalfa (03/01/11 04:06 PM)

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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: AlphaFalfa] * 1
    #14050040 - 03/01/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Yet....their 'peaceful' nuclear program is getting them into serious economic trouble and they have to import uranium, subjecting their own energy needs to an export market that they don't even come close to controlling.

Yeah, sounds real reasonable to me!






So what?  They aren't under US jurisdiction, they can use whichever energy resources they please.


--------------------
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR]
    #14050083 - 03/01/11 06:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Yet....their 'peaceful' nuclear program is getting them into serious economic trouble and they have to import uranium, subjecting their own energy needs to an export market that they don't even come close to controlling.

Yeah, sounds real reasonable to me!






So what?  They aren't under US jurisdiction, they can use whichever energy resources they please.





:lol:

Man, everything just flies over your head.


--------------------
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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: AlphaFalfa] * 1
    #14050107 - 03/01/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Yet....their 'peaceful' nuclear program is getting them into serious economic trouble and they have to import uranium, subjecting their own energy needs to an export market that they don't even come close to controlling.

Yeah, sounds real reasonable to me!






So what?  They aren't under US jurisdiction, they can use whichever energy resources they please.





:lol:

Man, everything just flies over your head.




What, like national sovereignty?


--------------------
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR] * 1
    #14050188 - 03/01/11 06:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:blewmeanie:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR]
    #14050195 - 03/01/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

They are lying about their motivation.


--------------------

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OfflineChelleLaBelle
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14050427 - 03/01/11 06:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.




Not like they are the only ones.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR]
    #14050605 - 03/01/11 07:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Yet....their 'peaceful' nuclear program is getting them into serious economic trouble and they have to import uranium, subjecting their own energy needs to an export market that they don't even come close to controlling.

Yeah, sounds real reasonable to me!






So what?  They aren't under US jurisdiction, they can use whichever energy resources they please.






So what to your post, as well.  What does the US have to do with Alpha's post?  You seem to presuppose a point you neither show as a consequence of his argument or even bother to state.


One disparity I always found with arguments of the rights of states as applied to matters like these:  the argument always seems to be that nothing prevents a given country from developing nuclear technologies, as they need answer to no one.  Somehow the corrolary to this, that other countries need not respect the desires of the nuclear state, seems never to be considered.

While it is true that there is no supreme commander who can tell Iran not to make weapons technology, there is also no supreme commander who can tell the other states, rightly worried about the aggressive foreign policy and neo-fascist politics of Iran, to facilitate or tolerate their development of such technologies unimpeded.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: johnm214]
    #14050926 - 03/01/11 08:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

it makes little to no sense for a energy rich country to make themselves liable to the sanctions of more powerful states that can severly paralyze aspects of their economy that are vital(fuel costs, etc.) when they already contain more than enough energy to meet their needs.

its fucking ridiculous to think that they would import uranium and put billions into nuclear power plants simply for energy and some shitty forms of medicine for cancer.... slash a huge component of their economy off due to sanctions for electricity?

You gotta be kidding me.

Their solar capacity is also one of the biggest in the world. With all that money and the money that they would be making from not having sanctions on their economy, it seems ridiculous that they don't go solar and try for uranium....

:shrug:


--------------------
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InvisibleTherian
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14051808 - 03/01/11 10:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

it makes little to no sense for a energy rich country to make themselves liable to the sanctions of more powerful states that can severly paralyze aspects of their economy that are vital(fuel costs, etc.) when they already contain more than enough energy to meet their needs.

its fucking ridiculous to think that they would import uranium and put billions into nuclear power plants simply for energy and some shitty forms of medicine for cancer.... slash a huge component of their economy off due to sanctions for electricity?

You gotta be kidding me.

Their solar capacity is also one of the biggest in the world. With all that money and the money that they would be making from not having sanctions on their economy, it seems ridiculous that they don't go solar and try for uranium....





Everything you stated is factually accurate and self evident. As was stated they are lying about their motivations. The one variable you seem to have missed is the motivational force of real, true, deep seeded extreme hate. The kind of which that would allow one and ones whole country to teeter on the brink of self destruction if it afforded them the opportunity to kill those that are the objects of their hate.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Therian]
    #14052015 - 03/01/11 11:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

it makes little to no sense for a energy rich country to make themselves liable to the sanctions of more powerful states that can severly paralyze aspects of their economy that are vital(fuel costs, etc.) when they already contain more than enough energy to meet their needs.

its fucking ridiculous to think that they would import uranium and put billions into nuclear power plants simply for energy and some shitty forms of medicine for cancer.... slash a huge component of their economy off due to sanctions for electricity?

You gotta be kidding me.

Their solar capacity is also one of the biggest in the world. With all that money and the money that they would be making from not having sanctions on their economy, it seems ridiculous that they don't go solar and try for uranium....





Everything you stated is factually accurate and self evident. As was stated they are lying about their motivations. The one variable you seem to have missed is the motivational force of real, true, deep seeded extreme hate. The kind of which that would allow one and ones whole country to teeter on the brink of self destruction if it afforded them the opportunity to kill those that are the objects of their hate.





How else would you describe an energy rich nation looking to invest billions, put stress on their own people through the economic sanctions that arise from such activities and then put themselves victim to a increasingly expensive and potentially volatile export/import market (uranium), when they can pinch at their natural gas, create highly efficient natural gas turbine generators and focus on their huge amount of solar capacity, thereby eliminating sanctions and economic stress and securing electrical energy for their future.


its a no brainer if the guy actually cared about his people and was being true to his word.

i smell fish and its getting more rotten by the second.

:shrug:


--------------------
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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14055650 - 03/02/11 04:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.


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OfflineTrufflicious
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR]
    #14055990 - 03/02/11 05:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This is besides the point, second largest natural gas reserves, huge oil producing nation, and a whole lot of dates doesn't mean you can't have nuclear power.

Should they talk about it? Yes. Do I think they are trying to find deterrents against an ever expanding red zone around them? Yes. Do I ever think they would use nuclear weapons? No, and they especially wouldn't be giving it to Hezbollah or some satellite, it would mean the end of Iran and the middle east, they know that.

Do the people have a right to nuclear energy as opposed to oil or gas? Of course, and you're quite an asshole to say they shouldn't considering all the neighbors that harness the atom around them.


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OfflineTeh_Freeky
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Trufflicious]
    #14056039 - 03/02/11 05:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

They have all that oil and don't want to rely on it? Outrageous!:mad2:

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OfflineCanis latrans
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Teh_Freeky]
    #14056459 - 03/02/11 07:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You should be glad they don't want to be dependent on their oil and natural gas reserves. That means they will be able to export it, and that you can continue to drive your SUV.

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Invisiblephoxyilluminata
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Teh_Freeky]
    #14056512 - 03/02/11 07:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Teh_Freeky said:
They have all that oil and don't want to rely on it? Outrageous!:mad2:



Yeah, fuck them and their desire to develop non-fossil fuel power. :mad2:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Trufflicious]
    #14056518 - 03/02/11 07:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Trufflicious said:

Do the people have a right to nuclear energy as opposed to oil or gas? Of course






Please explain.  How do you determine they have this right?

Further, even if we presume they do, what does it matter?  Nobody is taking issue with "people" making nuclear energy, they're taking issue with Iran developing nuclear technology- for obvious reasons.


Quote:

Trufflicious said:
Do I ever think they would use nuclear weapons? No, and they especially wouldn't be giving it to Hezbollah or some satellite, it would mean the end of Iran and the middle east, they know that.





Fine, let's presume you are correct (though it would be nice for some reasoning rather than bare claim):  What does it matter?  There is a large problem with having nuclear weapons floating around regardless of if they give them to somebody or use them (why wouldn't they use them on Israel?  They suddenly change their foreign policy to more restrained after they have the a credible nuclear deterant? ).  They can be stolen, abandoned, and so forth, with the exact same problems.  Having crazy religious crusader states armed with nuclear weapons is not a very secure situation.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: johnm214]
    #14056555 - 03/02/11 07:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineChelleLaBelle
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Canis latrans]
    #14056819 - 03/02/11 08:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Canis latrans said:
You should be glad they don't want to be dependent on their oil and natural gas reserves. That means they will be able to export it, and that you can continue to drive your SUV.




No shit.  They will make more money selling the damn oil than they would using it.  In the meantime added bonus they get to bankrupt more than one country.

Yet do you see any push to develop alternative fuels...  :mad2: totally other topic.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: ChelleLaBelle]
    #14056879 - 03/02/11 08:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What are you talking about?  Alternative fuels of the type people seem interested in (i.e. substantially more carbon per energy efficient than oil, coal, and within an order of magnitude as expensive ) have a huge amount of funding and public interest and are regularly covered in mass media, academic research, and government projects/grants.

As far as I can tell, the problem is they simply don't work as an alternative for anything other than niche applications (minus nuclear, though I think the hippies hate that too, and the gov't won't let you do it anyways).  It seems like people just have blind faith that some "alternative fuel" is available to solve our problems if we just.... pass huge appropriations that get earmarked for for the same old ethanol scam?

I don't know bout that last one, I don't think anyone else does either: and that's the result of a demand for action on something unfeasable.

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OfflineChelleLaBelle
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: johnm214]
    #14056928 - 03/02/11 08:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
What are you talking about?  Alternative fuels of the type people seem interested in (i.e. substantially more carbon per energy efficient than oil, coal, and within an order of magnitude as expensive ) have a huge amount of funding and public interest and are regularly covered in mass media, academic research, and government projects/grants.

As far as I can tell, the problem is they simply don't work as an alternative for anything other than niche applications.  It seems like people just have blind faith that some "alternative fuel" is available to solve our problems if we just.... pass huge appropriations that get earmarked for for the same old ethanol scam?

I don't know bout that last one, I don't think anyone else does either: and that's the result of a demand for action on something unfeasable.




There are many alternative fuel options.  They've proven that.  There are bio fuels, hydrogen, not to mention electricity.  The problem is they are not affordable to the general public.  They've proven they can work they need to refine them, expand the refueling options.  Make them affordable.

Or we can continue to pay billions to and for our troops over there instead of allocating those funds elsewhere.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: ChelleLaBelle]
    #14057017 - 03/02/11 08:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ChelleLaBelle said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
What are you talking about?  Alternative fuels of the type people seem interested in (i.e. substantially more carbon per energy efficient than oil, coal, and within an order of magnitude as expensive ) have a huge amount of funding and public interest and are regularly covered in mass media, academic research, and government projects/grants.

As far as I can tell, the problem is they simply don't work as an alternative for anything other than niche applications.  It seems like people just have blind faith that some "alternative fuel" is available to solve our problems if we just.... pass huge appropriations that get earmarked for for the same old ethanol scam?

I don't know bout that last one, I don't think anyone else does either: and that's the result of a demand for action on something unfeasable.




There are many alternative fuel options.  They've proven that.  There are bio fuels, hydrogen, not to mention electricity.




Well, electricity and hydrogen seem like more of a way to store or transfer energy, rather than to create it, net.  You can't go dig either out of the ground, so they have to be made.  How?  With energy.  How do we get the energy?  That's the problem in the first place.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but these don't seem like alternatives because they aren't even proposed to be used as net sources of energy- simply carriers or intermediaries.

As for "biofuels" that's a bit vague and seems pretty problematic on the pollution and carbon side of things that make them unsuitable as alternatives (seems the environmental/warming issue is as vital to the proponants, if not more so, than being renewable).  Is this not the case?  I mean, we could go back to steam engines, but that fails miserably on the carbon/pollution front, and even then likely would remain too expensive and vastly insufficient.

So, what alternative lies in biofuels?  I don't see it (though that doesn't stop money from being thrown away into ethanol).

 
Quote:

The problem is they are not affordable to the general public.  They've proven they can work they need to refine them, expand the refueling options.  Make them affordable.





You say they aren't affordable to the general public, do you imply they are affordable to someone outside of niche applications?  A metal stamping machine isn't consumer affordable, but it works.  I'm not sure that's the case with these alleged altenratives.

What besides nuclear and traditional "biofuels" (wood, garbage, stuff that produces lots of pollution and carbon)  has been proven able to work?  I'm not aware of anything even close to feasible as an alternative.

Quote:


Or we can continue to pay billions to and for our troops over there instead of allocating those funds elsewhere.




over where?  Seems a bit of a non sequitar to discuss this in relation to what troops do.  Maybe we could make them ride generator bikes?  Polish our solar-panel fields?

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OfflineTrufflicious
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: johnm214]
    #14057852 - 03/03/11 12:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Trufflicious said:

Do the people have a right to nuclear energy as opposed to oil or gas? Of course






Please explain.  How do you determine they have this right?

Further, even if we presume they do, what does it matter?  Nobody is taking issue with "people" making nuclear energy, they're taking issue with Iran developing nuclear technology- for obvious reasons.


Quote:

Trufflicious said:
Do I ever think they would use nuclear weapons? No, and they especially wouldn't be giving it to Hezbollah or some satellite, it would mean the end of Iran and the middle east, they know that.





Fine, let's presume you are correct (though it would be nice for some reasoning rather than bare claim):  What does it matter?  There is a large problem with having nuclear weapons floating around regardless of if they give them to somebody or use them (why wouldn't they use them on Israel?  They suddenly change their foreign policy to more restrained after they have the a credible nuclear deterant? ).  They can be stolen, abandoned, and so forth, with the exact same problems.  Having crazy religious crusader states armed with nuclear weapons is not a very secure situation.




Does the development of nuclear energy in Iran impede any of your freedoms? No, it only serves to benefit the people of that nation. Iran does not and will not produce nuclear weaponry on a scale that is of any threat to any nation. They do not have the uranium, they do not have the range of anything close to an ICBM, and they do not have any of the logistics to coordinate a serious nuclear attack. Pakistan, India, North Korea, and Russia are for more dangerous in terms of weapons falling into the wrong hands. They have a consistent record of people ready to sell old nuclear arms and materiel to plenty of shady characters. Take this article from FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN THE RAH RAH STARTED http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/04/world/fg-iran4

You don't seem to understand the trouble of going to war and restraining Iran from nuclear arms. Is it really viable to stick our hand in that little pile of sand and say "NO, NO NUCLEAR POWER NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS FOR YOU, NO NO NO!" when the fact is that none of these weapons could be developed or delivered in any effective terrorist manner. You seem to think Iran is trying to arm Hezbollah with suitcase nukes to ship off to the United States. Disregard the fact that transporting nuclear materiel anywhere in the world (especially the west) is highly dangerous and very obvious, and think to yourself what effect would this have? What would the fallout be? You seem to think that a country and the people running it are just ready to slit their throat. Iran would not use nuclear weapons for the same reason that the United States would not use nuclear weapons.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TGRR] * 1
    #14058918 - 03/03/11 09:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.



Requirements are funny things.  No other nation is required to deal with them either.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14061196 - 03/03/11 04:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.



Requirements are funny things.  No other nation is required to deal with them either.




Doesn't seem to be bothering them.  After all, they still have China & Russia.


--------------------
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OfflineScreaming Eagle
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14064390 - 03/04/11 01:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.



Requirements are funny things.  No other nation is required to deal with them either.





I agree.  Besides, why would we WANT them to use their own GAS RESERVES?  I say we wait until they make something that could be confused as a WMD.  Then we invade them and TAKE THE GAS FOR OURSELVES.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14064417 - 03/04/11 02:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.



Requirements are funny things.  No other nation is required to deal with them either.




Yeah, this seems similar to the point I observed.

It does seem that those who criticize any diplomatic position concerning another country's affairs seem to neglect to explain how the same respect for a country's right to do as they please doesn't justify the intervening country's sanctions and diplomatic efforts.  It seems like a one-sided analysis as usually applied here.

I'm reminded of views defending Japanese aggression in WWII against the allies and America in particular.  I know some prominent general-level officer in Japan's military (or whatever the code word for their military is) advanced this view and was sacked for it.  It struck me as pretty ridiculous and seemed to be simply an effort seeking to cast Japanese crimes in the best possible light.  His argument was essentially that because the US embargoed Japan after they stating slaughtering, invading, and raping the east, that this justified the attack on US forces, territories.  I fail to see how declining to sell oil to a nation justifies their attack.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Screaming Eagle]
    #14065144 - 03/04/11 08:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Screaming Eagle said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are lying about their motivation.





So what?  They're not required to give any answer at all.



Requirements are funny things.  No other nation is required to deal with them either.





I agree.  Besides, why would we WANT them to use their own GAS RESERVES?  I say we wait until they make something that could be confused as a WMD.  Then we invade them and TAKE THE GAS FOR OURSELVES.





I think certain american patriots produce all the gas we'll ever need.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: Icelander]
    #14065194 - 03/04/11 08:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Good Grief. I heard these same old fear arguments when India and then Pakistan developed Nuclear programs.

NOTHING HAPPENED.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Iran's owns the second largest proven natural gas reserves in the world. [Re: TheThinker]
    #14066521 - 03/04/11 02:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ZOMG!!

Your right!!!

Its going to be exactly like before!!!!!

RELAX FOLKS, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN....

Oh wait, this already happened twice in the past; Israel bombed Iraq in 81 and Syria in 07.

NVM FOLKS!

Back to normal....

Impending doom still imminent.


:lol:

your probally right tho, it won't surmount to anything, I just hope a nuclear terrorism doesn't occur anywhere near me.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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