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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Substrate Woes - No Straw
    #14034820 - 02/27/11 08:43 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

After messing with growing Oysters on cakes for awhile, it's time to step up to some bulk growing (5 gallon buckets). I had everything in place to get started this weekend on my WBS spawn, but have come to find out that straw cannot be had around here anywhere - just hay, which I know is not usable. SO needless to say, I am having to look for alternates.

The one thing I have found around here that might work is hardwood landscaping mulch - specifically oak. I have done some searching and see that folks have used it as a portion of their substrate and that RR recommended mixing it with sawdust, but therein exists another problem: no sawdust sources. I do have a couple of mesquite saw mills around here, but I am positive they are producing furniture (i.e., headboards, mantels, etc.) and don't want to risk using sawdust contaminated with lacquers, etc.

SO my question is, what can I mix with the hardwood mulch to make a suitable substrate for oysters?

I can get my hands on corn-cob litter from the pet stores, but not sure that would work. Other than that I am wits end and really bumbed about the situation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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Offlinejohnnyjae
The guy....
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Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 163
Last seen: 17 days, 14 hours
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14034862 - 02/27/11 09:01 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Hey bro try horse feed store for straw... another more expensive alternative is an arts and craft store... well hope.this helps..

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: johnnyjae]
    #14034867 - 02/27/11 09:04 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

johnnyjae said:
Hey bro try horse feed store for straw... another more expensive alternative is an arts and craft store... well hope.this helps..




I appreciate the tip - I've already checked the feed stores in my area and nothing but hay. I live in BFE and am running into the city today and will check the craft stores. After that, I am out of ideas for the straw.


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Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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Offlinethemycoman
Mycologist
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14034908 - 02/27/11 09:22 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I went through the same thing, called 10+ feed stores in my area and all had hay but not straw.

However if you talk to them they can usually special order bales of straw for you, now instead of driving two hours I can pay a little more per bale to get it locally.

Sames goes with grain, I had a hell of a time finding rye grain for less than $1/lb but I talked to a feed store and they can special order wheat grain much cheaper.

Check google maps for your area and try searching for "straw, wheat, rye, sawmill, hardwood, sawdust" you will be surprised what you will find.

I found a lumber mill that cuts primarily hardwood I am in the process of getting sawdust from.

Also craigslist is always worth a try, I found someone offering rye straw and possibly rye grain but he's far away and hard to get a hold of :confused:

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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: themycoman]
    #14034974 - 02/27/11 09:44 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

It'll work with straight wood chips.

You can also use newspaper, cardboard and coffee grounds.

I think it would be cool to figure out a way to make carboard/newspaper dust :smile:

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OfflineM8M
Stranger
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 229
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14035662 - 02/27/11 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Around most cities there are farms with livestock, horse riding stables or a horse racetrack where you can obtain a bale of straw.

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Invisibleconformist
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Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 210
Loc: SE Flag
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14035789 - 02/27/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

If BFE means what I think it does, then maybe the city will have a Home Depot or Lowes - they typically carry straw.

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: M8M]
    #14036298 - 02/27/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Well, the hobby stores aren't going to cut it. Michael's had mini-bales that were 6"x6"x9". I imagine I would need at a minimum 2 bales per bucket, but probable closer to three. At $5 a bale it's just too steep per bucket.

Quote:

teknix said:
It'll work with straight wood chips.

You can also use newspaper, cardboard and coffee grounds.






I wouldn't say the mulch is in a chip form. I could see some of it being chunky, but the mulch is essentially shredded oak.

I did come across something that might work as a 50/50 mix in lieu of sawdust:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751594

Seemed to be about the right size from feeling the bag. Of course it is slightly coarser than sawdust would be, but I think it would break down to fill the voids like sawdust would. I read a couple of posts about it, particularly this one:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11290357#11290357

Any thoughts?

Quote:

conformist said:
If BFE means what I think it does, then maybe the city will have a Home Depot or Lowes - they typically carry straw.




Already checked to no avail (unless I am looking in the wrong department). Lowe's is where I can get the oak mulch.

Quote:

M8M said:
Around most cities there are farms with livestock, horse riding stables or a horse racetrack where you can obtain a bale of straw.




Checked with a few. They are all using hay for bedding, probably because that is all that is really grown along the Gulf coast.


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Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

Edited by Oysterhead (02/27/11 02:26 PM)

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OfflineForager
Mycophile

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 440
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14036316 - 02/27/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Oysters would definitely grow on hay as well as straw.  These mushrooms are extremely versatile in the substrates they can utilize.


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Always looking for interesting active prints (especially Gymnopilus spp. and sclerotia producers) and cacti and poppy seeds.

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Forager]
    #14036368 - 02/27/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Forager said:
Oysters would definitely grow on hay as well as straw.  These mushrooms are extremely versatile in the substrates they can utilize.




I've read too many bad things about hay.


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Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14036377 - 02/27/11 02:39 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Forager said:
Oysters would definitely grow on hay as well as straw.  These mushrooms are extremely versatile in the substrates they can utilize.



Quote:

Oysterhead said:
Well, the hobby stores aren't going to cut it. Michael's had mini-bales that were 6"x6"x9". I imagine I would need at a minimum 2 bales per bucket, but probable closer to three. At $5 a bale it's just too steep per bucket.

Quote:

teknix said:
It'll work with straight wood chips.

You can also use newspaper, cardboard and coffee grounds.






I wouldn't say the mulch is in a chip form. I could see some of it being chunky, but the mulch is essentially shredded oak.

I did come across something that might work as a 50/50 mix in lieu of sawdust:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751594

Seemed to be about the right size from feeling the bag. Of course it is slightly coarser than sawdust would be, but I think it would break down to fill the voids like sawdust would. I read a couple of posts about it, particularly this one:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11290357#11290357

Any thoughts?






Can't wait to see how it turns out :smile:

Verm/coffee grounds is another option as well.

It is truly amazing how many substrates they will colonize.

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Invisibleconformist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 210
Loc: SE Flag
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14036431 - 02/27/11 02:50 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

The straw at Home Depot or Lowes is typically stored in a enclosed trailer at the end of the store ( in the parking lot ). You buy the bales inside then drive up to the trailer and pick them up.

( I couldn't tell from your response whether or not you asked them about it)

Good luck.

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: conformist]
    #14036488 - 02/27/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

conformist said:
The straw at Home Depot or Lowes is typically stored in a enclosed trailer at the end of the store ( in the parking lot ). You buy the bales inside then drive up to the trailer and pick them up.

( I couldn't tell from your response whether or not you asked them about it)

Good luck.




I will definitely ask about that. Thanks!


--------------------
Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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OfflineBlueLightRain
WhoaUnbrokenChain
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Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 354
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: teknix]
    #14036853 - 02/27/11 04:24 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Here are some photos of Pl. Pulmonarius growing on pasteurized coffee grinds collected from a local coffee shop. No supplements, no additives. The lovely ladies at my local coffee shop produce a 5-gallon bucket for me everyday! Very tenacious indeed. If you are in a big city, you have an endless supply of substrate!



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mushroomjoe.com - that's me!

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OfflineHumility
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: BlueLightRain]
    #14037528 - 02/27/11 06:26 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I just bought 10 straw bales the other day ^_^.  I'm going to start my second round of oyster logs this week, tomorrow specifically.

Oysters grow on so many things it's impossible to not find substrate for them.  Very versatile mushrooms.


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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14049093 - 03/01/11 03:20 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Oysterhead said:
Quote:

conformist said:
The straw at Home Depot or Lowes is typically stored in a enclosed trailer at the end of the store ( in the parking lot ). You buy the bales inside then drive up to the trailer and pick them up.

( I couldn't tell from your response whether or not you asked them about it)

Good luck.




I will definitely ask about that. Thanks!




Checked every HD and Lowes within 60 miles of here - nada. Thanks again for the tip though.


--------------------
Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: BlueLightRain]
    #14049105 - 03/01/11 03:22 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

BlueLightRain said:
Here are some photos of Pl. Pulmonarius growing on pasteurized coffee grinds collected from a local coffee shop. No supplements, no additives. The lovely ladies at my local coffee shop produce a 5-gallon bucket for me everyday! Very tenacious indeed. If you are in a big city, you have an endless supply of substrate!




Sounds like a possibility for me. However, how do you store so much spent coffee without it contaminating?


--------------------
Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: themycoman]
    #14049133 - 03/01/11 03:26 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

themycoman said:
However if you talk to them they can usually special order bales of straw for you, now instead of driving two hours I can pay a little more per bale to get it locally.





Called every store within reasonable driving distance about special ordering, and I was told no by all of them.

At this point I am going to go the hardwood mulch/some other additive route until I can work out a source for bulk spent coffee grounds.

I appreciate all the input from everyone!


--------------------
Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 772
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14049375 - 03/01/11 04:05 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Oysterhead said:
Quote:

BlueLightRain said:
Here are some photos of Pl. Pulmonarius growing on pasteurized coffee grinds collected from a local coffee shop. No supplements, no additives. The lovely ladies at my local coffee shop produce a 5-gallon bucket for me everyday! Very tenacious indeed. If you are in a big city, you have an endless supply of substrate!




Sounds like a possibility for me. However, how do you store so much spent coffee without it contaminating?




You don't just get fresh grounds and use them ASAP.  Sourcing coffee grounds is not difficult unless you live in a very rural area.  Any coffee shop will give you all you want.  Starbucks by my office gives me a full 5 gallon bucket daily.

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OfflineBlueLightRain
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Registered: 01/14/11
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14049458 - 03/01/11 04:18 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Well I get
Quote:

Oysterhead said:
Quote:

BlueLightRain said:
Here are some photos of Pl. Pulmonarius growing on pasteurized coffee grinds collected from a local coffee shop. No supplements, no additives. The lovely ladies at my local coffee shop produce a 5-gallon bucket for me everyday! Very tenacious indeed. If you are in a big city, you have an endless supply of substrate!




Sounds like a possibility for me. However, how do you store so much spent coffee without it contaminating?




The coffee grounds have already been pre-pasteurized simply through the extraction of the caffeine. However, from working at a coffee shop when I was younger I know that everything that goes into that batch isn't necessarily pasteurized. I used to toss messed up batches into the spent grinds bin. Sometimes even fresh, dry grounds went into the spend grinds bin. My point is...95% of it is pasteurized already. Plus, dirty hands touch them throughout the day. I've found they last a healthy 3 or 4 days before cobweb mold grows on them, so I use them within that window of time after I collect them. I label the buckets to know what's fresh, and then I pasteurize the coffee by pouring 180F water into the bucket I got them in (5 gallon Homer's bucket). Have to allow the water to saturate the entire substrate...and have to have some way of straining the water out after pasteurization. I can expand on that another time.

Depending on how much grain spawn you have available, and how often you collect...you can do this on a daily basis. Right now I'm comfortably inoculating 10 gallons of coffee a day. Yes read it again...10 gallons! That's approximately 80 pounds in wet weight! Working with it you'll figure out how much grain to add, how to fill your bags and how to upkeep your supply of grain. Mycelium is a marvelous thing! There are some other aspects to using coffee that you'll learn about, such as eliminating soaked substrate, and developing a substrate that is more airy.

Here are some photos to boot. I prepared and inoculated these bags today. A 5-gallon bucket of coffee grounds can make about 3 to 4 fully stuffed bags (obviously depending on the bag you use).


The ones on the right of the photo are 25% straw/75% coffee by volume. The front three are all coffee. Straw makes it more bouncy and gives it some air. An issue with all coffee is that some of the water will settle to the bottom (as you can tell with the bottom of the far left bag). I'm considering ways around this...such as tossing the soaked grounds, mixing in vermiculite, or adding vermiculite to the bottom of each bag to soak up moisture. I don't want to add another material to this project if I don't have to. The purpose of this project is to grow as many mushrooms as possible by spending as little money as possible while recycling wasted material...isn't that the role of mushrooms in nature?

By supplying my local coffee shop with an empty bucket every day, I'm getting a 5-gallon bucket full of coffee grounds in return! But just in my community neighborhood there are about 6-7 coffee shops which I haven't even tapped. Starbucks tends to have the most if you set up an arrangement. I've collected 2-3 buckets a day from them. Wow! Support your local coffee shop first, though.  If you are savvy and have enough coffee shops around, you can supply your hobby with approximately 200 to 300 pounds of free substrate a day!


--------------------
mushroomjoe.com - that's me!

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