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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: deCypher] 1
#14050547 - 03/01/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can one mock without being impertinent?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: circastes]
#14050626 - 03/01/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: There's nothing to understand. So to have any method is pretty irrational. Once you find love, that's it, you no longer exist as an individual and all the problems disappear. You become love...
If you never find love, you'll keep at it with stupid questions and stupid answers until you die. Love is union, and the greatest love is the love of God, found within you, given unconditionally, because God is love and you are God.
Quote:
circastes said: There's nothing to understand. So to have any method is pretty irrational. Once you find love, that's it, you no longer exist as an individual and all the problems disappear. You become love...
If you never find love, you'll keep at it with stupid questions and stupid answers until you die. Love is union, and the greatest love is the love of God, found within you, given unconditionally, because God is love and you are God.
Well you obviously still exist and that makes your post (as usual without evidence) suspect.
Who exactly are you trying to convince?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Icelander]
#14050636 - 03/01/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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When you die, you become a Hallmark greeting card - or something...
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
Icelander said: So far 100% of those polled agree with me.
Prance around with dogs like a ninny?
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: When asked for something better or an alternate method, nothing substantive is offered.
lol, yep, sounds about right.
I don't know where this idea comes from, but people seem to think that criticism applied to only one of a multiplicity of options somehow shows the relative value of the criticised item. This seems the favorit tactic of those criticising "science". I've heard lots of nonsense about "science can't measure emotion, experience, whatever" and plenty of huffing and puffing over vague terms like "singularity", "whole", and "trancend", but I've never heard of any alternative being offered that's described clear enough to actually use it.
When someone is sure they're correct but can't even explain their idea so that it can be understood, let alone judged, I think that's a pretty good sign its just an emotionally-held belief of no substance.
Seriously, out of all the science-criticising posts here, has anyone ever offered an alternative that is described at least enough to actually use it?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: johnm214]
#14050770 - 03/01/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Seriously, out of all the science-criticising posts here, has anyone ever offered an alternative that is described at least enough to actually use it?
Those who do wouldn't be able to post it because that would involve using science and technology such as the Internet and a computer.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: johnm214]
#14050799 - 03/01/11 07:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Notice that even those that dis science start with an observation just like science (even if the conclusion is erroneous)?
"Dude, I saw a UFO/ghost/alien/BigFoot."
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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yeah, though their communication skills generally need some work, in that when reporting their observations, they find it hard to stick to the facts, and substitute their conclusions, which are obviously overtly biased by all manner of things. I think it would be helpful if students would at least learn how an empircle scientific paper is written- far more useful than many of hte highschool "science" class lessons of memorizing random crap
Rather than relaying that they saw a small point-like white light zip across the sky at about a skylength per second's speed, they relate that they saw " a spaceship flying over the city with a bright light on it, moving at a speed too fast for any human craft"
I wonder if teh tendancy to conflate conclusions with facts/observations is correlated with erroneous conclusions? I could see your memory being colored by what you "know" when even when you recall the event, you implicitly recall "that spaceship I saw" rather than "that point-like white light moving quite fast that I believe to be an extraterrestrial craft". All sorts of evidence shows the maallability of memory, especially with emotional experiences and convictions, i.e. ther person who substitutes the face of the man in the mugshot they saw for the ill-defined hazy face they recall belonging to the man that robbed them- later they testify with absolute conviction that the person they saw was the defendant on trial after seeing them in the mugshot, even if the person was the wrong guy
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: circastes]
#14052405 - 03/02/11 12:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: There's nothing to understand. So to have any method is pretty irrational. Once you find love, that's it, you no longer exist as an individual and all the problems disappear. You become love...
If you never find love, you'll keep at it with stupid questions and stupid answers until you die. Love is union, and the greatest love is the love of God, found within you, given unconditionally, because God is love and you are God.
lol love. that doesn't exist.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: learningtofly]
#14052432 - 03/02/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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How does love not exist?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: deCypher]
#14052817 - 03/02/11 04:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No one voted for "make something up"
But anyone who believes in god should have checked that one!
We don't understand something "oh it's the work of god." Simple answer
And if what ever is mentioned about god makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER... then we can say "god works in mysterious ways."
What we don't understand is the work of god, and the reason the world is the way it is (full of suffering) is because god works in mysterious ways... THAT'S IT! I have the world figured out from "make something up" POV
Also...
Quote:
learningtofly said: lol love. that doesn't exist.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: deCypher]
#14053037 - 03/02/11 06:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: How does love not exist? 
Depends on what you mean by love. The idea of unconditional love, which imo is the only way you can define the word does not exist due to basic human psychology. IMO it is an idea used as a bench mark for a preferred form of behavior. We may try to approach it but will never get there.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#14053277 - 03/02/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Also...
Quote:
learningtofly said: lol love. that doesn't exist.

Well you can take it two ways: one being the conventional sense as Icelander has already said. The other being that there is independently existing of anything else called "love" and therefore it doesn't actually "exist"
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



Registered: 03/01/11
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: learningtofly]
#14053857 - 03/02/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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So after science, the next popular poll option is "take massive amounts of psychedelics".
Anyone want to offer an example of something they've understood using this method?
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Best and only method's gotta be scientific if you can really bebothered to take on the endless tangent of trying to understand the world.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Yith
Stranger


Registered: 07/19/09
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14054652 - 03/02/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Awesome... 
bserving is obably he est ethod
-------------------- See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me. Soften this old armor. Hoping I can clear the way By stepping through my shadow, Coming out the other side. Step into the shadow. Forty six and two are just ahead of me.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Ygor]
#14054878 - 03/02/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ygor said: So after science, the next popular poll option is "take massive amounts of psychedelics".
Anyone want to offer an example of something they've understood using this method?
Well, you can try to incorporate that into scientific-minded observation. It is observing a brain state, from the inside, other than our sober reality. Is subjective observation of a state of consciousness not scientific?
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



Registered: 03/01/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14055038 - 03/02/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: Is subjective observation of a state of consciousness not scientific?
Good question. Since the mind that is affected is also the mind that is trying to observe, I don't think it would be scientific.
However if, say, you gathered several people's subjective experiences while in and altered brain state and correlated them, you'd come up with something more tenable. I'm sure such studies have been done.
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Ygor]
#14055073 - 03/02/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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True, I guess you would need multiple accounts. Same goes for sober observations.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
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Loc: ohio
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: Sleepwalker] 2
#14055116 - 03/02/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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fuck all that shit, lets just get loaded, 'the world' aint give a flying fuck if you figure any of its aspects out, dawg 
shiet
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Best method for understanding the world? [Re: andrewss]
#14055138 - 03/02/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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