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Offlinefaceyneck
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The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread * 2
    #14043924 - 02/28/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

It's about time. We've all talked about it, and I did a search to see if someone started it yet, and didn't find one. So, I'm gonna do it.

Here, we'll discuss to bag, or not to bag, during colonization.

My stance is obviously HEAVILY against bagging during colonization. I get to full colonization in a week, at a spawn:substrate ratio of 1:4.

Good results. :grin:



Current bin, about to be cased, manure-based:



...and 3... 2... 1...

DISCUSS!!!

:whoo:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14044107 - 02/28/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:





:whacker:

That's all I have to add.


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Psilocyentist]
    #14044221 - 02/28/11 06:33 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Control tests? Isolates? blah blah blah?


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #14044305 - 02/28/11 06:45 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I have done both bag and no bag,

I tend to use no bag with just tightly stuffed poly for colonizing in normal room conditions(regular light)cause I'm lazy and hate wasting a bag I could pasteurize in or put my trash in.

I can't say I have ever had a problem or noticed a difference between the two.:justdontknow:


Edited by Ozzy (02/28/11 06:54 PM)

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14044469 - 02/28/11 07:08 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Are you talking about plastic around the edges which will shrink with the substrate or putting the whole enchilada in a bag?  I can't imagine why one would do the latter in the first place.  It sounds like condensation hell, and besides it could block light, both of which are undesirable.
RR


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14045373 - 02/28/11 09:18 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
putting the whole enchilada in a bag?



:yesnod:


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:I can't imagine why one would do the latter in the first place.  It sounds like condensation hell, and besides it could block light, both of which are undesirable.
RR



:whathesaid: I actually think is my problem w/ the colonizing bulk. The way the room is set up w/ the light; it never shines in my closet.  Therefore, my bulk tubs never get "sunlight."

Facey - you said yourself, yours colonize in 1 week.  Well, the most colonized tubs in my pics are from 10 days ago, and they're only 6 qt tubs, now I recognize I stalled the growth of these by keeping them in a bag for 24-48 hours (I can't remember, which)...But, when I took them out, they smelled of fermenting fruit (my yeast/bacteria problem w/ the KSSS tubs.)

Background: KSSS tubs (3) were kept in a trash bag exposed to light. They had a strong yeast/bacteria smell after 6 days of colonization w/ 1% colonization @ a 1:1 ratio. Never colonized after taking outta the bag; 3 days out of bag, insignificant growth.
PE6 tubs were in the bag between 24-48 hours w/ a slight smell of y/b @ a ratio of 1:1 (first pic bottom 2 shelves, 8 days colonization).
KSSS (second round) 5 days of colonization @ 1:1 (second pic bottom 2 shelves.)
Z-Strain 24 hours after spawn to bulk @ 1:1 (both pics, top shelves, total of 4 tubs).

All smells of fermenting fruits are gone now that I removed the first tubs of KSSS.

Well, enough of that...pics!




Yes, they're in a closet.  That's a weird hump in it that the shelves are on. It sits about 4 foot off the ground. Door stays open, but light shines towards opposite side of the room, very little light exposure.  Temps stay same as colonization temps (74-78).

:2cents:

Forgot, that's 1 brick coir + 3 quarts Fine verm + 1 gallon boiling water (Damion5050's Elementary tek)

1:1 = 10 jars per 4 tubs + entire bucket of above recipe. All MS


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Edited by TranscendingLife (02/28/11 09:24 PM)

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14045431 - 02/28/11 09:24 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

i'll be spawning in the next week or so, and will be testing this method

3, hopefully 4 tubs, 2 will be normal way out of bag, with holes taped, and 2 polyfil stuffed in the holes...all will be normal light cycle like i normally do..

we shall seeee

also going to try to do 2 of each, straw/manure sub, and coir sub's..

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: biologys]
    #14045778 - 02/28/11 10:16 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I dont bag but I do tape my fae holes shut during colonization, I let the unsealed lid do my GE during colonization then once colonized I remove the tape/stuff holes with poly and fan it really good then neglect till harvest.

then I dunk for 4hrs and case it with 5050 for the second flush. :stoner:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
    #14046660 - 03/01/11 02:07 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

hate wasting a bag I could pasteurize in or put my trash in.



Personally, wouldn't consider using a black plastic trash bag, cut to fit a fruiting mushroom substrate "wasting a bag".  Also, you should use spawn bags or quart jars as your pasteurization container. 

I bag my substrates and have noticed quite a decrease in side and bottom pinning over substrates that'r not bagged, on both clone and multi-spore culture.  I also tape holes during colonization.  For fruiting, 5 of six holes are stuffed heavily with poly-fil and one remains open coupled with a fan set on low to run during the photo-on period.  Temps are kept between 70-73F during fruiting, 68-70F during colonization.


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #14046693 - 03/01/11 02:18 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Control tests? Isolates? blah blah blah?




The past 4 bins I've done have been isolates. I haven't had enough spawn lately to do a side-by-side.

2 tubs attempted 4 years ago, both B+ multispore, both contaminated horribly before first flush. :nonono: Both were also a manure-based substrate, properly pasteurized.

I suppose the only thing left to do would be a side-by-side comparison with an isolate, then have others repeat with different isolates?

I think doing a side-by-side will show bagged monotubs grow much more slowly, or the same.

What would a 'control' test consist of, I wonder. :justdontknow: Maybe that would be one like in a bag with holes in it? :lol:

I totally plan on putting one in a bag again soon, to see like what would happen. :awehigh:

It seems like either people have noticed no difference, OR they have had problems with the monotubs being in a bag, and success without a bag.

Has anyone actually noticeably benefited from restricting air or gas exchange during colonization over NOT suffocating the substrate?

THAT'S something I'd pay to know the answer to. :lol:

Those of you who did/do stick them into a bag - did you get to full colonization in a week's time?

I certainly don't think I'm special in this regard. I think that's just what one should expect with an ideal substrate and ideal conditions. :shrug:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Ozzy]
    #14046698 - 03/01/11 02:22 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Ozzy said:
I have done both bag and no bag,

I tend to use no bag with just tightly stuffed poly for colonizing in normal room conditions(regular light)cause I'm lazy and hate wasting a bag I could pasteurize in or put my trash in.

I can't say I have ever had a problem or noticed a difference between the two.:justdontknow:







Are those PE from The Hawk's Eye?

They look WAY different than mine:



I of course understand multispore blah, blah, blah, but dayum, dem'z summah 'dem soo-puuuh phatties!  :omfg:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14046705 - 03/01/11 02:28 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Quote:

hate wasting a bag I could pasteurize in or put my trash in.



Personally, wouldn't consider using a black plastic trash bag, cut to fit a fruiting mushroom substrate "wasting a bag".  Also, you should use spawn bags or quart jars as your pasteurization container. 

I bag my substrates and have noticed quite a decrease in side and bottom pinning over substrates that'r not bagged, on both clone and multi-spore culture.  I also tape holes during colonization.  For fruiting, 5 of six holes are stuffed heavily with poly-fil and one remains open coupled with a fan set on low to run during the photo-on period.  Temps are kept between 70-73F during fruiting, 68-70F during colonization.





Oh, yeah, I should've clarified. Sorry. :awehigh:

I VERY much enjoy bags to put the substrate into. :awesomenod:

I do NOT place my monotub into a bag during colonization. :nonono:

I let it colonize in almost the exact same environment in which it will be fruiting in - holes stuffed with polyfil, fan going, light on 12/12, etc.

Restricting gas/air exchange for me, with tubs, resulted in contamination. :frown:

Many users have benefited from ceasing this archaic procedure, including Large_dose, ProfessorPinHead, myself of course, a newer member named PEMMs... to name a few. EatYuAlive told me recently he allows his to colonize out in the open as well. :grin:

At the very least, there seems to be no real benefit from restricting air/gas exchange during colonization. :shrug:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046759 - 03/01/11 02:57 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Let me be clear, I spawn to bulk inside of the black plastic trash bag.  I cut the bag upon colonizing my substrate so the substrate is not covered during colonization.  All substrates are colonized and fruited inside of a 64 quart, clear plastic storage tote.  I tape all six holes during colonization.  The size of fruiting chamber holds enough air upon being closed to supply enough gas exchange to the colonizing substrate if the substrate is uncovered.  I also like to keep colonizing substrates on an established circadian rhythm.

Colonizing mushroom mycelium enjoys high levels of co2.  If your substrate becomes contaminated during colonization, your problem is in your sterile technique or your grain spawn was contaminated.  It's during fruiting, when the substrate's exposed to fresh air and invader spores, that you don't want stagnant, co2 laden air in the fruiting chamber.  This is one of the reasons why air is to be exchanged, either automatically or manually, in an indoor grow show.  Stagnant, co2 laden air are favorable conditions for mushroom invader spores to germinate and gain a foot-holding onto your fruiting substrate.


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14046773 - 03/01/11 03:07 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I don't think it's the case colonizing mycelium enjoys high levels of CO2. It might. :shrug:

I do keep the CO2 levels higher during colonization, though, by using tighter polyfil bundles than when fruiting.

Quote:

If your substrate becomes contaminated during colonization, your problem is in your sterile technique or your grain spawn was contaminated.




If I understand you right - your reference to sterile technique is regarding the spawning to the bulk substrate?

I use pasteurized substrate, so no need for sterile technique. I am WAY cleaner than most, though; sanitize the air, wear gloves, mask, clean all surfaces with bleach and alcohol, etc.

Spawning in open air means there are going to be mold spores, etc. present, so what you said about CO2 and stagnant air certainly apply.

As mentioned earlier, I get full colonization in one week at a spawn:substrate ratio of 1:4, and less than 1 week if using a higher spawn ratio.

When I did it in a bag, not so good. :nonono:

I'm not saying it doesn't work to colonize in a bag, but I am saying it serves no noticeable benefit.


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14046788 - 03/01/11 03:16 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Formula: 0 :thumbup::mad:

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Are you talking about plastic around the edges which will shrink with the substrate or putting the whole enchilada in a bag?  I can't imagine why one would do the latter in the first place.  It sounds like condensation hell, and besides it could block light, both of which are undesirable.
RR



Am I allowed to put that in my sig :confused2:


My decision on the matter.

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046789 - 03/01/11 03:16 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

I don't colonize my substrates in a closed plastic trash bag.  The benefits of the black plastic trash bag are more geared towards fruiting, not colonization. 

Another good purpose for the use of the black plastic trash bag, for fruiting, is it keeps the substrate clean by separating the substrate from any moisture pooling that may be ocurring underneath the substrate, at the bottom of the tub.  The black plastic trash bag shrinks along with the substrate as the mycelium consumes the substrate making for moisture evaporation to only be allowed through surface of the substrate.

PS~ It's 4:19, you got a minute?


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead] * 1
    #14046803 - 03/01/11 03:23 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Colonizing cubensis mycillium likes oxygen. Not CO2.

I'm not arguing on that one with anyone.

Oxygen is beneficial.

This CO2 bullshit is out of date garbage :thumbdown:

No Offense Ham. I've grown enough both ways to be able to tell if there is a difference. There is!

I would recommend not taping those holes anymore. You be a happy camper if you do. Just stuff them from day one. your tubs will colonize so fast you cant keep up with them anymoar :smile:

P.S. its 5:19  :laugh2: I got 60.


-prof.

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14046807 - 03/01/11 03:23 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

I cut the bag upon colonizing my substrate so the substrate is not covered during colonization.




I found that a bit confusing. Sorry. :shrug:

I see now. I do the same thing - like using the bag as a liner, more or less. Makes cleanup a cinch. :super:

Have you tried colonizing with the holes stuffed with polyfil about medium-tight? :justdontknow:

PS = it's 3:19am here. :ohwell:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14046816 - 03/01/11 03:26 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

P.S. its 5:19  :laugh2: I got 60.





:rofl2:

Oh wait. :uhoh:

I don't get it. :confused2:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046821 - 03/01/11 03:29 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

60 ..... ummmm. Minutes. ahhhhhh!!! this is why i don't get it. :toilet: :cuteshit: + :jah:

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