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InvisibleRahz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039050 - 02/27/11 09:54 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

there is evidence pathogens are a major player in mutation as well.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039073 - 02/27/11 09:56 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Cosmic rays cause mutations, incorrect copying and transcription cause mutations, etcetera...





Please provide a reference to this. I'd love to read more

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14039127 - 02/27/11 10:01 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Don't have a specific reference but any good textbook on genetics and evolutionary biology should mention it.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039447 - 02/27/11 10:47 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Oh I thought you had read a peer reviewed journal article on the topic.

Do i have to read the whole textbook or is there a specific chapter you could direct me to?

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14039595 - 02/27/11 11:12 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I'm sure searching the index of any good textbook for "mutation" will provide a useful list.  Hell, you can even Google search it.  :cheers:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIC3Causes.shtml


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14040480 - 02/28/11 06:23 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Could you detail the silliness, if you have time.
Would love to hear it.




Ok, here goes...

It has nothing to do with the belief in reincarnation.  That fits comfortably into the void of currently unknowable things.  The imagination's domain.  Feel free to cling at your leisure.

I too have no problem with people believing in things that aren't true.  From what I've seen, we all do so for much of our lives.  To fight the force of irrational beliefs is to take on a great battle.

I personally find the truth or fiction of reincarnation to be irrelevant. Why?  Because we don't retain memories from past incarnations.  There is no I to experience the next because I didn't experience the last.  Maybe in the inter-incarnation waiting room I'll be proven wrong, but the other souls and I will all have a good laugh about it as I get prepped for a low-caste life in India, remembering the simpler days when we were all chillin in the protozoa pond.

So, to the silliness...

Quote:

If reincarnation was proven..
And you could kill your present self and be reincarnated as a human again.. (on earth)
(Your memory stays intact)




Ok, you are proposing a world in which reincarnation is a real phenomenon and memories stay intact from one incarnation to the next.  Obviously this isn't true now, so at what point does it take effect?

case 1 - An alternate world in which this has always been true...

None of us would exist, so we can't answer the question.

case 2 - Reincarnation is suddenly proven now-ish and the ability to retain memories between incarnations is made available...

Retain memories... at what point in the development of the human's cognitive functions would theese memories become accessible?  Would I appear as an infant engineer with ex-girlfriends?  Would all the trauma and extasy of life be available immediately for processing?  How would this affect the development of the new me? 

This is not a field I have studied in great depth, but the impressions of experience on memory seem to be directly related to the structure and training of the brain at the time.  How do you suppose a whole lifetime of memories might be downloaded and stored?  Like a film flashing before  the child's eyes?  My toddler nephew has a very different impression of Wall-E than I.

Then there is the matter of the total revolution of society that would likely result from this incarnation revelation.  Paintball is for pussies, we play with real bullets now.  Goodbye christianity and other linear spiritual systems.

etc.

edit: swapped the word 'memory' for 'belief' in the original.  interesting.

Edited by DisoRDeR (02/28/11 08:33 PM)

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14041440 - 02/28/11 11:55 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

@Disorder

I put (Your memory stays intact) for the good of the question.
Because only way reincarnation would to be proven is if some of the memory of the previous life was remembered.

I also had other intentions when asking the question, but not many said yes as I presumed.

With the whole memory thing I was trying to point out that even now we don't fully remember everything of our past, only little bits and segments are remembered, if you have done something that is not 'worth' you to remember such as turning on the tv.. doing something repetetive as you usually do everyday..

With the whole evolution thing I believe reincarnation is the next step if it isn't already true.. We as humans lived for quite a long time for us not to adapt to so-called 'death'.

I would think we as a species would evolve to find a way around this so-called inevitability.

I rather call it adaptation more so than evolution because I have not fully studied evolution.

But as a people most seem to suffer because of the death of another.
And some suffer their whole lives worrying about death.

Would we not subconsciously be constantly trying to figure a detour around death because of the woes it brings on us? If we evolved to have hands and fingers that make our life a little 'easier' what good does that do if you have only a few decades to use them?

It is strange how we seem to understand things and that sometimes knowledge just comes to us from pure intuition or free thinking.

If reincarnation does exist and we don't remember the things from it but maybe knowledge that is true sticks in our brain because that knowledge is relevant to use.

And if our brain can only contain so much memory I believe the brain would rule out the 'irrelevant' things aside from things of importance such as knowledge. Maybe that's why we never remember our past lives experiences but maybe the knowledge we gained during that time sticks.

And with the common occurance to trigger feelings we felt during the past. Love seems to be very strange in regard to memory. I don't know if it's just me but I can't remember certain things like the score of a game I played in sports when I was 12, but I can remember the people I thought I was in love with.

The form we take on next is what I don't fully understand but I believe I have a thought or two of it.

Edited by giza (02/28/11 11:59 AM)

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045514 - 02/28/11 09:36 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Another question based on the buddhism rebirth cycle..

Says that one of the 3 unfortunate realms is animals.
So does this mean we shouldn't have compassion for animals?
Since they must have gained bad karma from a previous life they have been reborn into one of the 'unfortunate' realms.

Does their servitude/suffering grant them positive karma so that eventually they can be reborn into a human/higher life form?

Also another thing to support reincarnation..
If rebirth is true but is based on your karma on whether or not you come back as a human again or a lower life form this could possibly be why we have not been able to confirm this as a fact as of yet.

Is this why the dalai lama is held up in such a high position because that his karma is in the positive so much that he may be able to reincarnate as a human being yet again?

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045605 - 02/28/11 09:49 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

So trying to 'save' the animals is actually holding them back from gaining positive karma.

Makes alot of sense on why we eat meat/use animals as we do.

Some become companions/protectors of humans
Others feed the masses.

Parts of animals satisfy people's 'suffering' of hunger.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045647 - 02/28/11 09:56 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Giza I've been reading a bit on the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and I think the end goal is to not be reincarnated...

You are meant to escape to Nirvana.

So it seems that it would be more benficial to live out this lifecycle for as long as you can. Committing suicide would just shorten this life cycle but then you would have to go through everything again in the next life.

Even if you remembered certain things there would be countless things you don't yet know.

Would you commit suicide every time you made a mistake?

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14045841 - 02/28/11 10:28 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Giza I've been reading a bit on the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and I think the end goal is to not be reincarnated...

You are meant to escape to Nirvana.

So it seems that it would be more benficial to live out this lifecycle for as long as you can. Committing suicide would just shorten this life cycle but then you would have to go through everything again in the next life.

Even if you remembered certain things there would be countless things you don't yet know.

Would you commit suicide every time you made a mistake?




No I'm smarter than that, if I made a mistake I would take the reprecussions that go along with it.
Even though recognizing the mistake and giving your life because of it may in turn give you more karma than you have taken..

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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14047390 - 03/01/11 08:37 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:


But as a people most seem to suffer because of the death of another.
And some suffer their whole lives worrying about death.

Would we not subconsciously be constantly trying to figure a detour around death because of the woes it brings on us?




Yes, I think we would.

Perhaps we'll some day develop the technology to allow a lossless continuation of conciousness.

Until then, we'll just keep trying to navigate detours around death, creating comfortable fictions, leaving lasting impressions, stretching biological limitations, honing honest examination.

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