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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043503 - 02/28/11 05:01 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Right, but we do always exist in some fashion. You won't have an ego/personality structure but it's not as if the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, etc that "makes" "you" is going to just vanish out of existence. It is through language that we perceive the world as differentiated.




I'm made of fish/grains/soy/milk/fruits.. HAHA
:awethumb:

What is physical pain if we are just an illusion?

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14043514 - 02/28/11 05:03 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I'm not saying everything is objectively consciousness, I am just saying that as far as you can tell everything is consciousness.



how do you come to that conclusion? I understand that when you say "it's all you," it means that everything you see is just a projection of your mind and you only experience your interpretation of reality, but what is meant by "everything is consciousness"?


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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043603 - 02/28/11 05:17 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I'm thinking Grapefruit means that since everything can be experienced or you can become aware of everything it is part of consciousness, making everything consciousness?

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: giza]
    #14043614 - 02/28/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

huh? You can't experience a rock, only your interpretation of the rock. The thing is that there is no "you" or differentiation to begin with. So it's all lies


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14043618 - 02/28/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Hate to rain on this guy's parade but you're not even a physical being. These bodies have some cool features but they are not all there is to us. We are inhabiting them with our consciousness in a very perculiar way. Whatever that make us, is a mystery, but it may just be that this whole thing is a setup to make us think it's real, so we could play a game, of us vs. them, good vs. evil, and the more ridiculous it gets the more sublime the creation.

When you think about it the only thing that makes life hopeless is our feeling of hopelessness. If you simply feel the opposite, then life is the opposite.

Happiness explains all.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: circastes]
    #14043633 - 02/28/11 05:21 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Then Buddha asked Subhuti, "What do you think, Subhuti, has the Buddha arrived at the highest, most fulfilled, most awakened and enlightened mind? Does the Buddha teach any teaching?"

Subhuti replied, "As far as I have understood the lord Buddha's teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened or enlightened mind. Nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Buddha teaches. Why? Because the teachings that the Buddha has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent things and therefore cannot be described. The truth in them is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is, nor is it not. What does this mean? What this means is that Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature."

‎"Let me ask you Subhuti? If a person filled over ten thousand galaxies with the seven treasures for the purpose of compassion, charity, and giving alms, would this person not gain great merit and spread much happiness?"

"Yes, Most Honored One. This person would gain great merit and spread much happiness, even though, in truth, this person does not have a separate existence to which merit could accrue. Why? Because this person's merit is characterized with the quality of not being merit."

The Buddha continued, "Then suppose another person understood only four lines of this Sutra, but nevertheless took it upon themselves to explain these lines to someone else. This person's merit would be even greater than the other person's. Why? Because all Buddhas and all the teachings and values of the highest, most fulfilled, most awakened minds arise from the teachings in this Sutra. And yet, even as I speak, Subhuti, I must take back my words as soon as they are uttered, for there are no Buddhas and there are no teachings."




This might put it more in context


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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043654 - 02/28/11 05:23 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
huh? You can't experience a rock, only your interpretation of the rock. The thing is that there is no "you" or differentiation to begin with. So it's all lies




Do you mean you can't experience being a rock?

It's not that it's not possible, when you dream you could become a rock and 'experience' being it.

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: circastes]
    #14043679 - 02/28/11 05:27 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

By the way the guy getting rained on was the Zen master or whoever or we said wasn't afraid of death.

Also if my post makes no sense it's because I'm slowly becoming insane. Good day.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: giza]
    #14043703 - 02/28/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
huh? You can't experience a rock, only your interpretation of the rock. The thing is that there is no "you" or differentiation to begin with. So it's all lies




Do you mean you can't experience being a rock?

It's not that it's not possible, when you dream you could become a rock and 'experience' being it.



no, when you dream of becoming a rock you are experiencing your interpretation of what it's like to be a rock.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: circastes]
    #14043722 - 02/28/11 05:32 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Meaning one's path to enlightenment would not be the same as another's.
Teachings are just an outline of a way of thinking that put them in their current placement.
Which means there is no way to teach, only your own 'way'.
?

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: giza]
    #14043937 - 02/28/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Well IMO, that's why debate is so important, helps you find your 'way'.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043945 - 02/28/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:


All living beings, whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they are aware or unaware, whether they are not aware or not unaware, all living beings will eventually be led by me to the final Nirvana, the final ending of the cycle of birth and death. And when this unfathomable, infinite number of living beings have all been liberated, in truth not even a single being has actually been liberated.

Why? Because If a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form or phenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or a universal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple.




Sounds like he isn't afraid of death to me, he even says if you think any part of you is going to exist forever, you're wrong






Watch very carefully what I say here.

I fully agree with him and yet I still have death anxiety.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14044575 - 02/28/11 07:20 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
There are no Buddhas and there are no teachings.

Let's discuss the merits and implications of this...




I believe I discovered this knowledge while on L during maybe the most important trip I've ever had. Noone is really "godly" or too wise to be a normal person. Everyone has flaws and none should be viewed higher or lower.

Teachings cannot exist true to their initial wisdom because of interpretation, politics etc so even trully wise teachings will eventually be nothing more than skewed angles for political gain eventually.

At least it's what I feel in my interpretation.


--------------------
I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: circastes]
    #14044690 - 02/28/11 07:35 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Also if my post makes no sense it's because I'm slowly becoming insane. Good day.




Best defense ever!  :rofl2:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14044714 - 02/28/11 07:37 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:


All living beings, whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they are aware or unaware, whether they are not aware or not unaware, all living beings will eventually be led by me to the final Nirvana, the final ending of the cycle of birth and death. And when this unfathomable, infinite number of living beings have all been liberated, in truth not even a single being has actually been liberated.

Why? Because If a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form or phenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or a universal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple.




Sounds like he isn't afraid of death to me, he even says if you think any part of you is going to exist forever, you're wrong






Watch very carefully what I say here.

I fully agree with him and yet I still have death anxiety.




:yesnod:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14044776 - 02/28/11 07:45 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:


All living beings, whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they are aware or unaware, whether they are not aware or not unaware, all living beings will eventually be led by me to the final Nirvana, the final ending of the cycle of birth and death. And when this unfathomable, infinite number of living beings have all been liberated, in truth not even a single being has actually been liberated.

Why? Because If a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form or phenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or a universal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple.




Sounds like he isn't afraid of death to me, he even says if you think any part of you is going to exist forever, you're wrong






Watch very carefully what I say here.

I fully agree with him and yet I still have death anxiety.



hmmm, so are you saying that while you agree on an intellectual level, you haven't completely internalized it?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14044803 - 02/28/11 07:50 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Right and according to Becker (and I agree) fully internalizing it is not a possibility.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14044814 - 02/28/11 07:53 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I can see certain suicides internalizing it.  I still like what Heisman, the author of the thousand-page suicide note had to say on the topic: self-destruction is the only way to prove one's freedom from death anxiety.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: deCypher]
    #14044871 - 02/28/11 08:00 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

That's just not true. If the anxiety is too great then suicide becomes the escape or the shield from death anxiety. This was discussed at great length in a thread here recently.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14044882 - 02/28/11 08:02 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's just not true. If the anxiety is too great then suicide becomes the escape or the shield from death anxiety.




An escape from a fear that involves accepting the fear and bravely walking into it?  That just doesn't ring right.  More like the suicide (in this case, I'm sure many other motivations exist where death anxiety is still present) is embracing death because he or she is no longer afraid of it.  At any rate neither of us can prove either way, but I think my analysis is more convincing.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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