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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Wordless * 1
    #14042096 - 02/28/11 01:31 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Can you convey something that is beyond words through words?

In a way everything we experience is beyond words, feeling happy is beyond the word happy, we think 'i am happy' but its just a word, a sound, it should only point to happiness, the word happiness isn't happiness, the word can take away from the full experience of the happiness, its like we try to solidfy our mind around the formless happiness so the expansiveness gets filtered in to think 'this is where i get happiness from' or 'this is happiness' usually looking outside, at a coca cola advert! When you use the word then you can form associations like 'this makes me happy'

When we use words it's like it sentences that happiness to an end as when you use a word its like coming into imagined opposites/duality/separation, some idea of 'I' comes up & claims ownership, my experience, my thoughts... some imagined middle man crops up between the universes energy functioning & its instrument that is functioning (the body) and claims ownership over the functioning and some language/words reinforce this.

The Rheomode idea of David Bohm is pretty cool at exposing fragmentation in the subject/object terminology of the english language, but can just changing how we use the language we already have enable us to communicate & increasingly release the flow of the ineffible? Or does a new form of communication have to come into play? It's like we'd have to be purely 'feeling' beings vibrating our energy & not 'thinkers' which is a denser form of vibration, we'd be doers and not tryers.

Not sure where i'm going with this... but it feels like sound/vibration/communication could change or something, it is like language gets more subtle, look at how we went from dialup to wireless everything, it's like subtlety begets more expansive & unified communication, so if the human mind became subtler the same could happen for our communication/language, arriving at a completely silent singularity where all information is communicated instantly with no time or separation. Kinda interesting if you link this to Mc Kenna's stoned ape theory aswell, bringing the recent what id call revolution in psychedelic research into the mix.


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Wordless [Re: Chronic7]
    #14042726 - 02/28/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I saw a video kickle linked me to the other day where it explains through charts of brain activity how the identity(sense of self) we experience throughout the day during our waking activities is missing during deep sleep because there is no more communication between various parts of the brain.
The brain activity is lessened and is localized , as opposed to the waking state where it is heightened and constitutes of various parts of the brain exchanging information.

If we take a look at this, the entire issue of using words or pictures or whatever mode of communication we choose to use , is completely irrelevant.

Parts of the brain communicate with each other through the chemical language.
Don't think  because we have expanded  with written/spoken language to entertain our intellect that the end results of our communication are any different.

Your entire identity is created by the chemical changes within your body and external influences in the early stages of life and is then further contrived and continuously refined by this sense of self that deems itself the head man in charge of all local processes. Rightfully so , for it is none other than natures doin' , if you care to subscribe to that expression without any unnecessary connotations attached.

What seems to be counter intuitive about this is that the same sense of self can easily catch on to how the game works and extend that control to other selves as it sees this as an opportunity to more efficiently keep its own internal processes in check.

In other words.. i see what your trying to say here , but i take it in as an overly simplistic way of dealing with what, again, seem to be aspects of human consciousness that are counter intuitive to the ideals we have as humans which are also btw, products of the same artificially intelligent approach to life we have been steadily building since the dawning of self awareness in man.

The line between "being happy" and hearing the word happiness is thinning as we further our understanding and carry on with wiring our brains to conduct chemical exchanges.
Although i relate to the "direct experience" more than this post would care to reveal, i also contend that without our intellectual capabilities to define or conceptualize happiness, it would serve no purpose to us unless we were brain dead.
Without language.. we would be limited to inducing chemical changes amongst ourselves through the primitive animalistic behavior.
I could hurt you, fuck you, lick you,steal your food or piss where you piss.
Love and compassion and probably most of the concepts we are able to intellectually understand as well as directly experience would not exist were it not for words , just like they do not exist in the animal kingdom apart from what are simply survival instincts we then naively attach these concepts to as humans.

This of course is merely one way to look at it and by no means is it something i whole heartedly stand behind. Ironically, i do not even find this notion we are discussing to be very important.
In fact.. it wasn't even me that wrote this.
I like to believe that i sometimes step aside and let the brain do the talking for me.
It's an exercise.

When all is said and done..
Can you believe its not butter ?



:rofl:


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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Wordless [Re: jivJaN]
    #14042793 - 02/28/11 03:00 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Very interesting post. :thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHakim0777
aka RACKBONE!!!
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,071
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Wordless [Re: Icelander]
    #14043178 - 02/28/11 04:05 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

When I was in surgery for getting my head cracked open I was conscious for a small moment that Ill never forget.

IT was... Incredible. Like being comforted by your mother as a child,Fear,Hope, and for a second what felt like I understood everything for just a small moment.

Then I was awake eventually and all better. IF that never happened im sure my experience would have left me with some form of PTSD.


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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Wordless [Re: Hakim0777]
    #14044389 - 02/28/11 06:57 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

The OP reminded me of RAW's suggestion to avoid using the word 'is'; instead we should more accurately use the words 'seems like' or something similar.  I feel like internalizing this shift of meaning would lead to a lot less confusion and violence in the world, but then again I could be wrong.  :shrug:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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