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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience?
    #14042897 - 02/28/11 03:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Will it happen or not?

Why or why not?

I don't think it will. Their government insists on using violent means to control the protests. In the end a regime that is not influenced by the west, supported by the chinese and russians, won't ever step down unless geo-politically gaffed by a stronger ally such as china/russia.

A big reason why Mubarak stepped down was because Barak pleaded that he do so. We are and have been a huge influence on egypt for quite a while.

Makes sense then to think that iranians will never be able to over-throw their government.

What action do we take if any?


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14043933 - 02/28/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The Shah used to cut peoples' arms and legs off and send them home in a basket.

The Iranians overthrew him anyway.

You seem to be confusing them with the pussies in Iraq.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TGRR]
    #14044127 - 02/28/11 06:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
The Shah used to cut peoples' arms and legs off and send them home in a basket.

The Iranians overthrew him anyway.

You seem to be confusing them with the pussies in Iraq.





Your ignorance is astonishing.

Is it not obvious that a change in government has to do with more than just the interactions of the government and its people.

Are you blind?

Did you not see how Mubarak backed down as soon as Obama said so?

Put two and two together more ofter, you might end up with more relevant points in your post.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14044318 - 02/28/11 06:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

Your ignorance is astonishing.





Yeah, later, troll.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineChelleLaBelle
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TGRR]
    #14045017 - 02/28/11 08:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It isn't going to happen.  Ghadd
Quote:

TGRR said:
The Shah used to cut peoples' arms and legs off and send them home in a basket.

The Iranians overthrew him anyway.

You seem to be confusing them with the pussies in Iraq.




I think a lot of people see the entire mideast like a lego set, interchangable pieces.....


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If this were a movie, would you be a character in it? Or just an extra?

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OfflineMushyHobo
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: ChelleLaBelle]
    #14045149 - 02/28/11 08:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I agree, it's probably a lot more complex than that.  Like mechano. Or what was that one with the bolts and spanners and it kept coming loose all the time and then your dog would scatter the bits all over the carpet and you'd find a vital part under the sofa like 14 months later and then you've totally given up on it already and suffered the infernal dignity of your friends laughing at you because of your stupid dog?  But you showed him, didn't you?  Revenge is underestimated in diplomacy.  Everyone does it, but no one wants to admit to it.  Like the war with Iran - looking at you Obama.

Just like that.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: MushyHobo]
    #14048637 - 03/01/11 01:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The Shah lost the army.  Mubarek lost the army.  Ghaddafi is in the process of losing the army.  The "people" can do nothing but die unless the military at least splits.  It is ever thus.


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OfflineMushyHobo
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14048810 - 03/01/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's poetry, man.

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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14050094 - 03/01/11 06:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Shah lost the army.  Mubarek lost the army.  Ghaddafi is in the process of losing the army.  The "people" can do nothing but die unless the military at least splits.  It is ever thus.




Tell it to Léger-Félicité Sonthonax.

Or Lord Cornwallis, for that matter.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TGRR]
    #14050152 - 03/01/11 06:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Shah lost the army.  Mubarek lost the army.  Ghaddafi is in the process of losing the army.  The "people" can do nothing but die unless the military at least splits.  It is ever thus.




Tell it to Léger-Félicité Sonthonax.

Or Lord Cornwallis, for that matter.





and like wise the romanovs...........


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Taco Chef]
    #14050184 - 03/01/11 06:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century


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OfflineCanis latrans
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14051942 - 03/01/11 11:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century



This is also the same century in which one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world is forced to bribe locals and pay off warlords to just be allowed to drive along roads we are helping build without being blown up too much.

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OfflineMelloRed
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Canis latrans]
    #14053360 - 03/02/11 08:54 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Won't happen as long as one of two things don't occur:

1.  The military and police stop putting down protestors and join them.
2.  More than just a small subsection of the population are willing to revolt and risk their lives.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Canis latrans]
    #14053597 - 03/02/11 09:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Canis latrans said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century



This is also the same century in which one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world is forced to bribe locals and pay off warlords to just be allowed to drive along roads we are helping build without being blown up too much.



We aren't forced to do that at all.  We could turn the whole fucking country into glass in a few hours.  We choose not to.


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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14053710 - 03/02/11 10:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
We aren't forced to do that at all.  We could turn the whole fucking country into glass in a few hours.  We choose not to.




And they should be grateful that you don't!  :laugh2:


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Ygor]
    #14053728 - 03/02/11 10:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That has nothing to do with your stupid assertion that the strongest military in the history of the Earth is forced to bribe people.  It isn't.


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InvisibleSubetai
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14053745 - 03/02/11 10:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Canis latrans said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century



This is also the same century in which one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world is forced to bribe locals and pay off warlords to just be allowed to drive along roads we are helping build without being blown up too much.



We aren't forced to do that at all.  We could turn the whole fucking country into glass in a few hours.  We choose not to.




And why is that, do you think?  Could it be because that using nuclear weapons would not actually help achieve any of the objectives in those countries where the USA is fighting local or Islamist insurgencies?  Or does the USA not choose to use them because of some antiquated adherence to the Marquess of Queensbury rules? 

And what use are weapons which don't actually help you achieve your goals, again?


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"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14053747 - 03/02/11 10:14 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely correct and why we don't want Iran having nukes.:lol:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSubetai
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Icelander]
    #14053772 - 03/02/11 10:19 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Absolutely correct and why we don't want Iran having nukes.:lol:




Who's "we"?

Iran doesn't have missiles that can reach my house.  I don't give a rat's ass.  If Iran and Israel want to do a re-run of the Cold War, minature scale, I say "have at it".  Maybe they'll figure out how incredibly stupid the whole idea is, or the dipshits will end up killing each other off before that obvious conclusion occurs to them.  Neither outcome seems like a great loss for humanity.


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"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Subetai]
    #14053785 - 03/02/11 10:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Subetai said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Canis latrans said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century



This is also the same century in which one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world is forced to bribe locals and pay off warlords to just be allowed to drive along roads we are helping build without being blown up too much.



We aren't forced to do that at all.  We could turn the whole fucking country into glass in a few hours.  We choose not to.




And why is that, do you think?  Could it be because that using nuclear weapons would not actually help achieve any of the objectives in those countries where the USA is fighting local or Islamist insurgencies?  Or does the USA not choose to use them because of some antiquated adherence to the Marquess of Queensbury rules?




Once again a failure to follow a point.  What is the objective?  To prevent any more 9/11 nurseries from operating under state protection.  We could certainly achieve that by making Afghanistan glow for a thousand years.  We choose not to.
Quote:

 

And what use are weapons which don't actually help you achieve your goals, again?




See cold war.  Also look up deterrent in the dictionary.


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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14053798 - 03/02/11 10:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think nuking an entire country would cause more people to turn to terrorist organisations, not less.

Maybe that's just me.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Ygor]
    #14053870 - 03/02/11 10:44 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It is just you.  Weakness, not strength, encourages attacks.


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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14053877 - 03/02/11 10:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Really? You don't think public opinion would turn against the US if it nuked a country and killed a few million innocents?


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Ygor]
    #14053975 - 03/02/11 11:05 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How is that forcing?


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InvisibleSubetai
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14054085 - 03/02/11 11:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Once again a failure to follow a point.  What is the objective?  To prevent any more 9/11 nurseries from operating under state protection.  We could certainly achieve that by making Afghanistan glow for a thousand years.  We choose not to.


 

Yes, I'm sure nuking an entire country of 20 million people, many of whom had fought against the "government" of the time, and who have a widespread diaspora over western Europe and America, would have stopped terrorism.  Yup.  Definitely.  Because terrorism isn't at all a constant tactical method used throughout history, and so nukes would obviously work, much as if you used nuclear warfare to prevent nations from supporting the use of ambush tactics.

The other amusing thing about such a bone-headed proposition is that it was Pakistan who was the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the region.  The ISI and military backed the Taliban, who backed Al-Qaeda, who helped to train the Kashmiri and Uzbek and Chechen militants.  And Pakistan risked nuclear war with India over its sponsorship of terrorism in 2002.  It wasn't the possibility of nuclear war which forced them to back down, either.

Quote:

See cold war.  Also look up deterrent in the dictionary.




Oh, so those nuclear weapons are deterring violence against American troops in insurgencies in the Middle East, are they?  Wow, that must be why Afghanistan and Iraq capitulated immediately, then became freedom-loving liberal democracies.

Do try and keep up with the context of the disccusion instead of dishonestly expanding the scope of the conversation in an attempt to score cheap points, there's a good fellow.


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"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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InvisibleSubetai
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14054094 - 03/02/11 11:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It is just you.  Weakness, not strength, encourages attacks.




Absolutely.  This is why terrorists, who are frequently small bands of badly armed and poorly trained individuals, frequently target the most powerful nation in the history of the world.  Because weakness invites attacks, and the USA is clearly weak.

Or something.


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"Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
-- Mark Twain

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Subetai]
    #14054116 - 03/02/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You really cannot understand what the word "force" means, can you

Nuclear weapons act as a deterrent when your enemy believes you will use them.  Overwhelming superiority acts as a deterrent when your enemy believes you will use.  The enemy oft times engineers its attacks just up to the point where it thinks you will stop refraining.  The ugly fact you guys cannot grasp is we are not forced into any restraint.  We choose it.  For assorted reasons.  But we most certainly are not forced.


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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14054230 - 03/02/11 11:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think anyone is arguing that the US is forced into not using nukes.

I'm saying that using nukes would cause more people to become sympathetic to terrorist organisations. Simple cause and effect.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Ygor]
    #14054365 - 03/02/11 12:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Or maybe they'll get mad at the assholes who provoked it


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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14054394 - 03/02/11 12:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I doubt it. The reaction to the US's perceived transgressions so far has been to radicalise more Muslims.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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OfflineNet
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14054594 - 03/02/11 01:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You really cannot understand what the word "force" means, can you

Nuclear weapons act as a deterrent when your enemy believes you will use them.  Overwhelming superiority acts as a deterrent when your enemy believes you will use.  The enemy oft times engineers its attacks just up to the point where it thinks you will stop refraining.  The ugly fact you guys cannot grasp is we are not forced into any restraint.  We choose it.  For assorted reasons.  But we most certainly are not forced.





How about you specifically define your criteria for "forced"?


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“In all institutions from which the cold wind of open criticism is excluded, an innocent corruption begins to grow like a mushroom - for example, in senates and learned societies”

—Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Ygor]
    #14054662 - 03/02/11 01:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ygor said:
I doubt it. The reaction to the US's perceived transgressions so far has been to radicalise more Muslims.



This is the typical rejoinder of two groups
1.  Muslims
2.  Surrender monkeys.
Transgressions?  You want to talk transgressions?


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OfflineCanis latrans
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Subetai]
    #14054711 - 03/02/11 01:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Subetai said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Canis latrans said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Their weapons were muskets and swords.  Welcome to the 21st century



This is also the same century in which one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world is forced to bribe locals and pay off warlords to just be allowed to drive along roads we are helping build without being blown up too much.



We aren't forced to do that at all.  We could turn the whole fucking country into glass in a few hours.  We choose not to.




And why is that, do you think?  Could it be because that using nuclear weapons would not actually help achieve any of the objectives in those countries where the USA is fighting local or Islamist insurgencies?  Or does the USA not choose to use them because of some antiquated adherence to the Marquess of Queensbury rules? 

And what use are weapons which don't actually help you achieve your goals, again?




I think our good chap Zappa is missing the point.

Say we were to glass the entire nation. Which one are we referring to?
Iraq? We have mostly pulled out of there, I know this because my unit was one of the ones responsible for the coordination and transportation of the property that was being pulled out. It would at this time serve little purpose for us to nuke them into a radioactive window.
Afghanistan on the other hand is an utter mess, between the corrupt government, warlords, who may or may not be Al Qaeda, and actual insurgent forces. It is also a highly mountainous nation. Do we have enough nuclear ordinance to glass the entire country? And even if we were to nuke them as much as we can, do you think the neighboring nations would appreciate the fallout? Or that in doing so we would have reduced if not removed the export of heroin and the possible export of rare earth metals? Never mind the massive public and international outcry against this.
Say we did just nuke the crap out 'Stan, we are now short a crap ton of nuclear weapons, there goes our nuclear deterrent.
A nuclear deterrent is only good against other nations with ICBM and nuclear capability. It is not good against terrorist organizations whom would use are unjustified murder of innocent Muslims as well as the destruction of their lands to swell their ranks.

So explain to me again how our nuclear deterrent is supposed to be helping us. And then explain to me how we aren't forced to pay bribes to private security firms that run by warlords and/or terrorists. And while you are at, please explain to me how exactly we are fighting the terrorists when most of the time the guys planting the IEDs in 'Stan are the guys living in the villages we drive by that do so not for political or ideological reasons but because they were coerced, paid or someone in the US Military accidentally hurt/maimed/killed his family or destroyed property of his.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Canis latrans]
    #14054820 - 03/02/11 01:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not missing anything.  We aren't forced to do anything.  Should we choose we can impose our will to great effect.  Nothing physical prevents it.  Mauritania cannot turn Tunisia into glass.  We can.  We can turn anyplace into glass.  We can turn the whole fucking planet into glass.

Three nations, at  least, can make that claim. 

The greatest deterrent, and granted that without the ability there is none, is will.


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OfflineNet
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Net]
    #14054851 - 03/02/11 02:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Net said:
How about you specifically define your criteria for "forced"?





--------------------
“In all institutions from which the cold wind of open criticism is excluded, an innocent corruption begins to grow like a mushroom - for example, in senates and learned societies”

—Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineYgor
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14055001 - 03/02/11 02:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Ygor said:
I doubt it. The reaction to the US's perceived transgressions so far has been to radicalise more Muslims.



This is the typical rejoinder of two groups
1.  Muslims
2.  Surrender monkeys.
Transgressions?  You want to talk transgressions?




Perceived transgressions. Do try and keep up.


--------------------
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on.
Still are withered by the evening,
You can be me when I'm gone.

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OfflineCanis latrans
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14055542 - 03/02/11 04:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm not missing anything.  We aren't forced to do anything.  Should we choose we can impose our will to great effect.  Nothing physical prevents it.  Mauritania cannot turn Tunisia into glass.  We can.  We can turn anyplace into glass.  We can turn the whole fucking planet into glass.

Three nations, at  least, can make that claim. 

The greatest deterrent, and granted that without the ability there is none, is will.




So we, the US, have enough ordinance at our disposal to turn the entire planet to glass without any outside assistance?
And although still less ridiculous, do we have enough ordinance to turn all of Libya into glass?
I would like to debate these points with you, but it seems as though you are in your own little dream land brought about too many psychotropic chemicals, and therefore are pulling things from your behind.

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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14055678 - 03/02/11 04:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That has nothing to do with your stupid assertion that the strongest military in the history of the Earth is forced to bribe people.  It isn't.




Sure as fuck is.  We're doing it right now, have been for years.

And America isn't the strongest military.  It's just the most expensive.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14055685 - 03/02/11 04:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Ygor said:
I doubt it. The reaction to the US's perceived transgressions so far has been to radicalise more Muslims.



This is the typical rejoinder of two groups
1.  Muslims
2.  Surrender monkeys.
Transgressions?  You want to talk transgressions?




And THIS ^ is the standard response of the empty-headed Rush Limbaugh fan.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineTrufflicious
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TGRR]
    #14055830 - 03/02/11 05:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The amount of transgression perpetrated by the west far exceeds anything any terrorist organization or country may have done... You can't nuke anywhere, at all.

PHYSICALLY I can come to your house and shit on your doorstep, but then I would be in a little trouble wouldn't I? PHYSICALLY we can drop our arsenal of nuclear weapons a country, but I don't think you really understand the fallout. I also don't think there would be any point in time where that would ever be considered a realistic option.

There really is no sense in arguing with you, because you are the same person who looks at wikileaks helicopter vidoes and says "Shouldn'ta brought your kids to a battlezone".

On the point of Iran, I can only hope that they are able to get back on track after 58 years, though, it's definitely far off. I am encouraged that there is still support in the streets for Mousavi, but it is still not enough.


--------------------
“He is like a man using a candle to look for the sun”

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14058605 - 03/03/11 07:05 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not missing anything.  We aren't forced to do anything.  Should we choose we can impose our will to great effect.  Nothing physical prevents it.  Mauritania cannot turn Tunisia into glass.  We can.  We can turn anyplace into glass.  We can turn the whole fucking planet into glass.




Cue evil maniacal laughter.....

Zappa why cant you just feel the love?? We are all fucked until Zappa can feel the love...


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: GazzBut]
    #14058765 - 03/03/11 08:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Then you better get used to being :doggystyle:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TGRR]
    #14058969 - 03/03/11 09:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That has nothing to do with your stupid assertion that the strongest military in the history of the Earth is forced to bribe people.  It isn't.




Sure as fuck is.  We're doing it right now, have been for years.




I had a beer last night.  Been having beers for years.  I must have been forced.
Quote:



And America isn't the strongest military.  It's just the most expensive.




:rofl2:


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OfflineMushyHobo
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14059277 - 03/03/11 10:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I had a beer last night.  Been having beers for years.  I must have been forced.




:awelol:

Yeah!!  Just because someone does something regularly doesn't mean they're forced into doing it, duh.  I'm sick of hearing that from stupid people.

The US Military isn't forced into bribing local warlords in return for local cooperation due to a reduced fear of retribution, they could just kill everyone or leave.  It's entirely their choice.

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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: MushyHobo]
    #14059423 - 03/03/11 11:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So let's just go with this.
Say we spin up a few nukes, of course this will be detected. Immediately all nuclear powers are on full alert. Then take the step of an actual launch. Hands are now hovering over the launch buttons everywhere.

So they track the launch and determine the intended target. Now countries are studying wind currents and patterns. Some of them will be much less than pleased.

Another consideration is that while we are using our weapons in one direction we will have to be watching our backs just in case some of those other powers decides this would be a perfect time for a pre-emptive strike.

Now we have the nuclear world on full alert, missles in the air, and possibly India and Pakistan getting pretty pissed.

At this point we should realize that nukes are weapons of mass destruction that have the best effect when used on large population centers. How many of those are in Afghanistan? It would not be even remotely practical to bomb the open countryside in hopes of hitting all the villages.

Sometimes being "forced" into something just involves common sense.

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Icelander]
    #14060024 - 03/03/11 01:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Then you better get used to being :doggystyle:
D4D0C8




Yep...I think you might be right. Im gonna need a softer cushion.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060066 - 03/03/11 01:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:


Sometimes being "forced" into something just involves common sense.




:facepalm:  Everything sensible is compulsory?


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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060175 - 03/03/11 01:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:


Sometimes being "forced" into something just involves common sense.




:facepalm:  Everything sensible is compulsory?





Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Are you capable of intelligent debate at all?

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OfflineTrufflicious
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060294 - 03/03/11 02:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

No, you can't go to another country and kill everyone, we have these things called international laws. You are FORCED into bribing warlords to CONTINUE the Opium and Heroin trade in the east and to ensure US Security in that little specific warlord's shit hole. You are forced because if you didn't you'd be knocking on there doors just like every other Taliban and using the Rules of Engagement to pick em out. You don't just get to turn off consequences, and I don't think you understand that you can't send people to another country to destroy villages, we had enough problems with people coming back from Vietnam. McChrystal wanted to get rid of the RoE, and so does betray us, but they can't... they have blackwater to do that.

Yes, we run the UN, the G8, and the Illuminati. That does not mean we suddenly get to start mass murdering people in foreign countries, we are already pulling that shit off at its cap.


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“He is like a man using a candle to look for the sun”

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060307 - 03/03/11 02:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:


Sometimes being "forced" into something just involves common sense.




:facepalm:  Everything sensible is compulsory?





Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Are you capable of intelligent debate at all?



So you just got owned by an unintelligent debater.  Doesn't look good on your resume.


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OfflineTrufflicious
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060344 - 03/03/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm:  :curbyourenthusiasm:


--------------------
“He is like a man using a candle to look for the sun”

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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060352 - 03/03/11 02:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:


Sometimes being "forced" into something just involves common sense.




:facepalm:  Everything sensible is compulsory?





Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Are you capable of intelligent debate at all?



So you just got owned by an unintelligent debater.  Doesn't look good on your resume.




You owned nothing. The way you transposed "Sometimes" to "Everything" is evidence that you just pwned yourself. Better luck next time.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060407 - 03/03/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "involved common  sense".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.


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OfflineLord Amok
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060465 - 03/03/11 02:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "was the only alternative to nuclear armageddon".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Fixed.


--------------------
Viva las Vegas.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Lord Amok]
    #14060477 - 03/03/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I don't need you to apply false dichotomies nor do I need you to alter my quotes.  This isn't OTD.


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OfflineMushyHobo
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060533 - 03/03/11 02:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:bigyesnod:

I'm still digging the fact that there are some cats still out there using "owned" in a non-ironic jag.

:laugh2:

That's so old it's square, catch the bus, man!

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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060547 - 03/03/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "involved common  sense".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Now we are reduced to name calling. Well, I suppose your lack of argument is the cause of that. How do you think it would work if a nation decided to shoot off nuclear fireworks? MAD is a very real possibility. You see, and let me know if I start using words that are too big for you, Nukes are only a deterrent if they are not used.

We and other nations have nuclear arsenals to insure nukes aren't used against us. A large part of why they work as a deterrent is because everyone who has them understands the possibilities. If a nation suddenly decided to use nukes then the whole deterrent thing kind of collapses.

So you see, if our government decided to use nukes as an offensive weapon then they have violated their oaths to keep our borders safe. The swearing in oath. So, yes, making the correct choice in this case is "forced" on them.

But if you really want we can roll around in the mud and call each other names and argue semantics.

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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: Lord Amok]
    #14060557 - 03/03/11 02:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lord Amok said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "was the only alternative to nuclear armageddon".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Fixed.




Excellent work.

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OfflineNet
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060631 - 03/03/11 02:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's nice to not have to define your terms, because then when you're just about to look really foolish, you can just haul the goalposts further down the field, with your fingers in your ears, screeching, "neener neener neener, your mom has a weiner."


--------------------
“In all institutions from which the cold wind of open criticism is excluded, an innocent corruption begins to grow like a mushroom - for example, in senates and learned societies”

—Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060663 - 03/03/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "involved common  sense".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Now we are reduced to name calling.




derelict and incompetent are adjectives, not nouns.
Quote:


Well, I suppose your lack of argument is the cause of that. How do you think it would work if a nation decided to shoot off nuclear fireworks? MAD is a very real possibility. You see, and let me know if I start using words that are too big for you, Nukes are only a deterrent if they are not used.




They are only a deterrent if there is a chance they will be used.  Otherwise they are museum pieces.  Curios.
Quote:



We and other nations have nuclear arsenals to insure nukes aren't used against us. A large part of why they work as a deterrent is because everyone who has them understands the possibilities. If a nation suddenly decided to use nukes then the whole deterrent thing kind of collapses.




Well yes, obviously, then they would have failed to deter.  Duh.
Quote:



So you see, if our government decided to use nukes as an offensive weapon then they have violated their oaths to keep our borders safe. The swearing in oath. So, yes, making the correct choice in this case is "forced" on them.



:rofl2:That's a fucking scream.  The only choices are nukes or bribes?  My you have no imagination at all.
Quote:



But if you really want we can roll around in the mud and call each other names and argue semantics.




I have already semantically demolished your whinge that meany ZIG called widdle Tinker a name. 
Semantics is about meaning.  If a bunch of jerkoffs wants to redefine the entire concept of compulsion, as represented here by the word "forced", then it loses all distinction from choice and expedience.  Words used to have meaning............in the hands of floundering debaters not so much.


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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060687 - 03/03/11 03:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "involved common  sense".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Now we are reduced to name calling.




derelict and incompetent are adjectives, not nouns.
Quote:


Well, I suppose your lack of argument is the cause of that. How do you think it would work if a nation decided to shoot off nuclear fireworks? MAD is a very real possibility. You see, and let me know if I start using words that are too big for you, Nukes are only a deterrent if they are not used.




They are only a deterrent if there is a chance they will be used.  Otherwise they are museum pieces.  Curios.
Quote:



We and other nations have nuclear arsenals to insure nukes aren't used against us. A large part of why they work as a deterrent is because everyone who has them understands the possibilities. If a nation suddenly decided to use nukes then the whole deterrent thing kind of collapses.




Well yes, obviously, then they would have failed to deter.  Duh.
Quote:



So you see, if our government decided to use nukes as an offensive weapon then they have violated their oaths to keep our borders safe. The swearing in oath. So, yes, making the correct choice in this case is "forced" on them.



:rofl2:That's a fucking scream.  The only choices are nukes or bribes?  My you have no imagination at all.
Quote:



But if you really want we can roll around in the mud and call each other names and argue semantics.




I have already semantically demolished your whinge that meany ZIG called widdle Tinker a name. 
Semantics is about meaning.  If a bunch of jerkoffs wants to redefine the entire concept of compulsion, as represented here by the word "forced", then it loses all distinction from choice and expedience.  Words used to have meaning............in the hands of floundering debaters not so much.





Good lord. What have you done to your brain? Has it always been this way? Poor chap, can we help?

Or are you simply derelict and incompetent?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: TheThinker]
    #14060693 - 03/03/11 03:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your sole justification for it being "forced" was that it "involved common  sense".  Absent any other justification, what else can you offer us to establish that they were, in fact, "forced" to do it?  You were either derelict or incompetent.  Choose one.  Oh yeah.  Owned.




Now we are reduced to name calling.




derelict and incompetent are adjectives, not nouns.
Quote:


Well, I suppose your lack of argument is the cause of that. How do you think it would work if a nation decided to shoot off nuclear fireworks? MAD is a very real possibility. You see, and let me know if I start using words that are too big for you, Nukes are only a deterrent if they are not used.




They are only a deterrent if there is a chance they will be used.  Otherwise they are museum pieces.  Curios.
Quote:



We and other nations have nuclear arsenals to insure nukes aren't used against us. A large part of why they work as a deterrent is because everyone who has them understands the possibilities. If a nation suddenly decided to use nukes then the whole deterrent thing kind of collapses.




Well yes, obviously, then they would have failed to deter.  Duh.
Quote:



So you see, if our government decided to use nukes as an offensive weapon then they have violated their oaths to keep our borders safe. The swearing in oath. So, yes, making the correct choice in this case is "forced" on them.



:rofl2:That's a fucking scream.  The only choices are nukes or bribes?  My you have no imagination at all.
Quote:



But if you really want we can roll around in the mud and call each other names and argue semantics.




I have already semantically demolished your whinge that meany ZIG called widdle Tinker a name. 
Semantics is about meaning.  If a bunch of jerkoffs wants to redefine the entire concept of compulsion, as represented here by the word "forced", then it loses all distinction from choice and expedience.  Words used to have meaning............in the hands of floundering debaters not so much.





Good lord. What have you done to your brain? Has it always been this way? Poor chap, can we help?

Or are you simply derelict and incompetent?



Excellent rejoinder, Kurt.:thumbup:


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OfflineTheThinker
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14060711 - 03/03/11 03:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just keeping it on your level zapp

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iranian Overthrow of Governmen - Imminence or Transience? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14060904 - 03/03/11 03:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
No point keeping this open. It long ago abandoned any semblance of relevance, civility, or interest.

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