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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world?
    #1404127 - 03/23/03 05:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? It seems that with exploding populations and instant communications, the world is getting smaller all the time. Can we survive as separate entities and effectively isolationist countries? Or as scarry as it is, will a world government of sorts be necessary? If some form of world government is needed, what model should be used? Who should lead the charge?

I think these are important questions confronting mankind in the near future.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404137 - 03/23/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I think we should let the repressive murderous governments thrive no matter how deadly of a threat to the world they are. Closing our eyes and ears and being blind to the future is the way to go!!!!


:tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Offlinemike
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: Murex]
    #1404175 - 03/23/03 05:32 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

yea, on some level i could agree, but on another i say fuck that.

as easy as it is to play dumb, and live in your own little world, it is not what is needed. people should be aware of the fact that every voice matters. and those who choose not to use their voices are rendering themself helpless to the powers that be.
i wont let them speak for me.

the future, its is a crazy picture, but one thing is for sure, we are all in the same boat. our watchful eyes are only clouded windows for us to try and see through, what we need is some fucking windex. haha.


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Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
-Albert Einstein

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mike]
    #1404181 - 03/23/03 05:35 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I think Murex was being facetious.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404182 - 03/23/03 05:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I am waiting for Silversoul to lay out his plan for the future.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404205 - 03/23/03 05:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Very well, then. Here goes:

Since we've already begun invading Iraq, I suppose there's no other option than to stick with the plan, as unfortunate as it may be. With any luck, Bush won't get re-elected, and the new president will help sever the broken ties with the Muslim world. We give more funding to research for alternative fuels so that we're less dependent on oil. We should never again start a pre-emptive strike, or any other wars of aggression. We get the FBI to do their fucking job so we can prevent another 9/11. Oh ya, and repeal the Patriot Act.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinerhizo
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the worl [Re: Murex]
    #1404208 - 03/23/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

i think we should save people from being chewed up, swallowed, regurgitated, and spat out by the propaganda machine


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1404212 - 03/23/03 05:47 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Since we've already begun invading Iraq, I suppose there's no other option than to stick with the plan, as unfortunate as it may be. With any luck, Bush won't get re-elected, and the new president will help sever the broken ties with the Muslim world. We give more funding to research for alternative fuels so that we're less dependent on oil. We should never again start a pre-emptive strike, or any other wars of aggression. We get the FBI to do their fucking job so we can prevent another 9/11. Oh ya, and repeal the Patriot Act.

I like this.  :blush:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404258 - 03/23/03 06:13 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Mankind will destroy itself. I believe this is inevitable. Either through war or polution. Either that or the earth will realize that we are too stupid to exist any longer and create some sort of incuarable super-bug and wipe us out. As far as peace, it will never exist. There will be periods in which the masses are convinced that we are at peace. Peace is the ideology of the moron, of the simple minded. Nature is a constant battle for power. Geopolitical existance is no different.

Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->

Until the end of the world.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: Murex]
    #1404293 - 03/23/03 06:31 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Since we've already begun invading Iraq, I suppose there's no other option than to stick with the plan, as unfortunate as it may be. With any luck, Bush won't get re-elected, and the new president will help sever the broken ties with the Muslim world. We give more funding to research for alternative fuels so that we're less dependent on oil. We should never again start a pre-emptive strike, or any other wars of aggression. We get the FBI to do their fucking job so we can prevent another 9/11. Oh ya, and repeal the Patriot Act.

I like this.  :blush: 




I like it too. But does it mean that you think we can get along as seperate entities, or is some sort of world governance unavoidable to avoid MAD?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404304 - 03/23/03 06:34 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mankind will destroy itself. I believe this is inevitable. Either through war or polution. Either that or the earth will realize that we are too stupid to exist any longer and create some sort of incuarable super-bug and wipe us out. As far as peace, it will never exist. There will be periods in which the masses are convinced that we are at peace. Peace is the ideology of the moron, of the simple minded. Nature is a constant battle for power. Geopolitical existance is no different.

Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->Thesis->Antithesis->Synthesis->

Until the end of the world.




I agree with this aswell. That is why I think we need to support the space program. It might be a dream but I think it is possible. To spread out beyond this planet is the only way to ensure our survival. Aside from ourselves, an astroid collision is a matter of when not if.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404310 - 03/23/03 06:38 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

What is the need to carry on survival? This is something I've never understood. But I do agree with the space program part. I just don't understand the human race's wet dream of surviving forever. It isn't natural. Don't fight extinction.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404327 - 03/23/03 06:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I just don't understand the human race's wet dream of surviving forever. It isn't natural. Don't fight extinction.

If we can survive, then we will prove that we have evolved enough to be a race that should be given the title of great.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404337 - 03/23/03 06:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

If we don't survive than all the suffering was for not. It is to incredible to let it go to waste.



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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: Murex]
    #1404339 - 03/23/03 06:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

lol


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404346 - 03/23/03 06:56 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

But to continue existing is to continue suffering. I guess I don't believe that humans can be perfected and that there will always be suffering. There will always be rich, always be poor. Always be powerful. Always be meak. Always be tyranical. Always be compassionate. I see no use in continuing to exist. Perhaps I should take this to S&PS.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404352 - 03/23/03 06:58 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I see no use in continuing to exist.

You give up too easy. What a shame.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the worl [Re: silversoul7]
    #1404365 - 03/23/03 07:03 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Good post silversoul. The concept of pre-emptive strike should go in the history as something that will never happen again. But now there is no other choice than that the USA win this war quickly.
But what if the war turns out long and bloody? What if the protesters overthrow the pro-american governments in arab countries? What if Bush gets reelected? And I don't doubt that the terrorists are getting many new recrutes.
There will be no peace in the near future. :frown:

...
What keeps mankind alive? Mankind is kept alive by bestial acts.   

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: Murex]
    #1404372 - 03/23/03 07:06 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Well not me personally :wink: But....grrr. I guess this really boils down to the point of life eh? But I think as a whole humans want there to be a purpose for our existance. I just don't believe in one. 


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404378 - 03/23/03 07:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I agree but I think that the big picture is a beautiful
one worth living. The good and the bad are one in the same.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

Edited by mntlfngrs (03/23/03 07:24 PM)

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OfflineMurex
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the worl [Re: zeronio]
    #1404388 - 03/23/03 07:13 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

But what if the war turns out long and bloody?

It won't be. The Coalition forces have accomplished a lot allready. Iraq has no chance in winning.

What if Bush gets reelected?

I seriously doubt it will happen.






--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404545 - 03/23/03 09:47 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Well if we want a peaceful world I think we will need to go about acheiving it through peaceful means. To me that is blatantly obvious.

Heres an extreme scenario and it is purely illustrative.

Say we  monitor Saddam closely via the UN and inspections but also allowed him to sell his oil freely to rebuild his country and lift all non-military sanctions. Do you really think he would launch an attack on us? Do you think this kind of behaviour would breed resentment and hate throughout the Muslim world? It is unlikely. Now say that one of the extremist groups that would still remain decides to launch an attack equivalent to 9/11 again at a western target. If we respond peacefully with dignity, realising that the terrorists are a minute portion of the muslim world, and do not launch attacks on the scale of those in Afghanistan do you think Muslim respect for the west would increase or diminish? I am not saying the perpetrators should escape punishment. They should be hunted down as individuals. Im sure our Muslim brothers would help us.
Now this would be a hard path to walk and Im not saying we should renounce the use of force entirely, not immediately anyway, but we should definitely not involve ourselves in any preemptive actions if long lasting world Peace is our goal.

I have thought about World Peace many times and for me it alway comes back to one single obstacle - Greed. This world is abundant with natural resources. It is also abundant with man made resources. In fact if the resources of the planet were divided equally every citizen on planet earth would be a millionaire. This is obviously idealistic but it is a goal we can move closer towards if not acheive entirely.
It is greed that keeps 90% of the resources in the hands of 10% of the world. It is greed that dehumanizes people to others suffering.  I see greed as taking more than you actually need at the expense of others. How we move past greed im not sure, I think it is something that needs to be done on a personal level and hope that this kind of thinking becomes prevalent enough to make it a primary feature of the next paradigm. I dont think greed is intrinsically evil, I think it was neccesary to provide the impetus for parts of human evolution but now it is more a hinderance to the evolution of the species.
I love Peter Russels analogy of the global brain awakening. When you see yourself as a part of a global organism, neurons perhaps?!, the relevance of personal greed diminishes, in fact it becomes abhorrent.

I agree that some form of world government is needed but one that is without greed.
Evolution is a puzzle we are now creatively steering evolution rather than being the blind recipients of its gifts. If we cannot solve the puzzle we will lose the game.
I like Tim Leary's formula for evolution - Smi2le

Space Migration + Intelligence increase and Life Externsion. I think the intellignece increase element relates to the puzzle of greed and thinking in terms of the planetary being rather than us being discrete elements running around on the surface of a dead rock.

So im a freaky utopian space cadet - I dont care! :grin:

PEACE 


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Always Smi2le

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1404680 - 03/24/03 12:38 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I see your point and have thought the same way many times. I feel like the era of WMDs have made that a lot harder and extreemly dangerous. It is conceivable that someone with the resources and the time could destroy an entire continent. And while most of the world might live contently and in peace in you scenerio, it would only take one crazy in power to destroy it all. And if noone retains the ability to fight what chance would the world have against him? I just think that there will anyays be the one.



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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404699 - 03/24/03 01:10 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

As long as men can obtain positions of power, there will never be peace on this earth. Power corrupts, and people are led along like sheep in the name of patriotism. Countries need to be abolished and seen as the evil that they are. Stop loving your countries and start loving your fellow man, is there really any other way?

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: ]
    #1404712 - 03/24/03 01:34 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Some sort of governance in needed. Even if there was no crime, how do you provide infrastructure to billions of people?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404792 - 03/24/03 02:53 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Well I dont think we should lay down our arms completely but I cant see how preemptive attacks can move us towards peace.


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Always Smi2le

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: ]
    #1404797 - 03/24/03 02:57 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stop loving your countries and start loving your fellow man



Sorry. Most of my fellow man (and Women) are too stupid to live and spend their time hanging out at anti american websites, playing in front of bulldozers, homicide bombing civilians, crashing planes into buildings, raping, murdering, not caring enough to learn the issues and voting and just generally cramming their heads as far up their own asses as possible.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinesirreal
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404801 - 03/24/03 02:58 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I guess this really boils down to the point of life eh? But I think as a whole humans want there to be a purpose for our existance. I just don't believe in one.




There is a purpose. Wether that purpose is just biological (Life trying to work itself out in someway) or spiritual, well, that is up to the individual to decide. But there is a purpose.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: sirreal]
    #1404813 - 03/24/03 03:04 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

:smirk: If you say so. I don't buy it.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Offlinesirreal
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404837 - 03/24/03 03:15 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

:smirk: If you say so. I don't buy it. 





What is there not to buy?

If there is no greater purpose there still is the purpose of procreating and perpetuating life. 


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: sirreal]
    #1404852 - 03/24/03 03:22 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

There is nothing to buy. Too many people take life for something more than face value. There is no purpose, no reason for "procreating and perpetuating life", and that was kinda my original question anyway.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

Edited by I_Fart_Blue (03/24/03 03:22 AM)

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Offlinesirreal
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404866 - 03/24/03 03:29 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

There is nothing to buy. Too many people take life for something more than face value. There is no purpose, no reason for "procreating and perpetuating life", and that was kinda my original question anyway.




How can you say that? It defies logic.

Even if a monotheistic God does not exist, how can you say that there is no purpose in perpetuating life. You , personally, may not have a good reason to perpetuate your genes but life is headed somewhere.

Even evolution , Leaving god out of it completely, suggests that there is a purpose to this. You may not see any meaning to this purpose, but it is a purpose nonetheless.

A purpose does not require a God. I am not trying to be confrontational, I just want you to understand what I am saying.

Yes, man may destroy himself and never realise his purpose.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

Edited by sirreal (03/24/03 03:52 AM)

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: sirreal]
    #1404875 - 03/24/03 03:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

See, that is kinda my point. People try to apply logic to life. Life in and of it self is illogical. Life is just a coincidence. Humans seem to perpetuate this lie that life is actually going somewhere in order to make ourselves feel better. It isn't. Life just is. Evolution only suggests that the organisms or traits which are best suited for existing at a set point in time prevail. I see what you are saying, as I said before, I just don't buy it.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Offlinesirreal
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Registered: 01/11/03
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1404882 - 03/24/03 03:43 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Even if life's only purpose is to survive and adapt to its environment and to try and expand it's boundries, It still has a purpose. Just not a purpose designated by a God. 

I have a purpose with or without a God. I do see what you are saying though.

And once again, I am not trying to sell you anything. :smile:


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

Edited by sirreal (03/24/03 03:43 AM)

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: What is needed to ensure the peaceful future of the world? [Re: sirreal]
    #1404892 - 03/24/03 03:48 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with you that there is a biological purpose. Every species has inborn desire to further life. I guess that's supposed to mean something. Whatever it is I have no idea.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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