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Offlinelearningtofly
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What does this mean to you?
    #14041215 - 02/28/11 11:05 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

There are no Buddhas and there are no teachings.

Let's discuss the merits and implications of this...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14041223 - 02/28/11 11:07 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Everything is what it is and always has been and nothing you do or realize is going to change that.

That's the old chop wood carry water thingy.

It's already a done deal any you're along for the ride.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14041302 - 02/28/11 11:21 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

What I don't understand, is in Denial of Death he talks about Buddhist teachings as being afraid of death, but as far as I can tell, tathagata realizes that are no such things as "life" or "death." And while yes, I suppose that saying death isn't real could be a form of death anxiety, I really do think that there's more to the teachings of tathagata than that

Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream.
So is all conditioned existence to be seen.


Thus spoke Buddha


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Edited by learningtofly (02/28/11 11:23 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14041332 - 02/28/11 11:27 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I suppose that saying death isn't real could be a form of death anxiety,

Bingo !  You found it yourself but it's up to you whether you're going to accept it.

Buddhism creates a great shield to death anxiety for some.  If you realize we all need shields without exception you can see value in any of them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblegiza
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14041565 - 02/28/11 12:15 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
There are no Buddhas and there are no teachings.

Let's discuss the merits and implications of this...




Because knowledge is knowledge there is no teacher in knowledge there is only knowledge.

The teachers merely spread the knowledge.

That's what I got out of it anyway.

Edited by giza (02/28/11 12:56 PM)

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14042108 - 02/28/11 01:32 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Concepts are all illusions and there is nothing other than you (as far as you know for sure).


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14042206 - 02/28/11 01:45 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I suppose that saying death isn't real could be a form of death anxiety,

Bingo !  You found it yourself but it's up to you whether you're going to accept it.

Buddhism creates a great shield to death anxiety for some.  If you realize we all need shields without exception you can see value in any of them.



So is it impossible to not fear death?
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Concepts are all illusions and there is nothing other than you (as far as you know for sure).



Half way there, it is also saying that there is no such thing as "you." There are no teachings because words cannot describe reality, there is nothing to be taught. There are no buddhas because in order for there to be a buddha, you have to admit that things are separated/differentiated.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14042295 - 02/28/11 01:56 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

According to Becker and I agree, there is no way to completely eliminate death anxiety.  It seems our personality structure/ ego cannot abide the idea of it's mortality.  We cannot imagine ourselves not existing in some fashion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14042354 - 02/28/11 02:05 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Right, but we do always exist in some fashion. You won't have an ego/personality structure but it's not as if the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, etc that "makes" "you" is going to just vanish out of existence. It is through language that we perceive the world as differentiated.


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Edited by learningtofly (02/28/11 02:05 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14042412 - 02/28/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Right, but we do always exist in some fashion.

You're giving yourself away here imo. There is no "we" that always exists.  Energy always exists and you are imo making an unconscious attachment of your "we/I" to that energy. As far as we know energy has no consciousness in total.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14042514 - 02/28/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Just because your body, your friends, your dogs, your planet, your dreams, desires, memories, knowledge, awareness, and that ugly, worn-out couch of yours will someday all be gone, doesn't mean you will no longer exist. :nono:


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14042536 - 02/28/11 02:25 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Right, but we do always exist in some fashion.

You're giving yourself away here imo. There is no "we" that always exists.  Energy always exists and you are imo making an unconscious attachment of your "we/I" to that energy. As far as we know energy has no consciousness in total.



I am using "we" as a figure of speech, I know that "i" don't exist.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14042621 - 02/28/11 02:35 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Then we do not always exist in some fashion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14042755 - 02/28/11 02:52 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

What do you mean by "we"? Do you mean the identity Icelander or Learningtofly? Or do you mean the physical components?

"We" never existed in the first place, "we" are an illusion


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Invisibleamuzakat
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14042769 - 02/28/11 02:55 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I think the statement is a reminder to people to think for themselves, or to uphold an illusion that they do, rather than accept something as a matter of faith. Keep the NULL hypothesis in mind at all times when considering any thesis about anything. Including those of "death anxiety", or Buddhism.

One thing Becker and the Buddha were right about is that people are often more anxious about the death of their idiotic Gods, holy cows, and smart-ass concepts than they are about their own death, or about the emptiness that stares at them from all corners of the universe if they only opened their eyes... But I'd side with the Buddha in saying this is due to being ignorant/stupid rather than due to some psychological transference due to being too anxious to consider one's own death.

But in the spirit of the statement. Let them all die a fast and painfree death.. death anxiety, Buddhism, emptiness, and all Happy Meals for the soul. GONE. R.I.P. The end.

Too bad these hungry ghosts are usually the first in line for reincarnation.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14042804 - 02/28/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
What do you mean by "we"? Do you mean the identity Icelander or Learningtofly? Or do you mean the physical components?

"We" never existed in the first place, "we" are an illusion





I'm talking mental here. Although you might be able to make a case for all of it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Icelander]
    #14042888 - 02/28/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:


All living beings, whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they are aware or unaware, whether they are not aware or not unaware, all living beings will eventually be led by me to the final Nirvana, the final ending of the cycle of birth and death. And when this unfathomable, infinite number of living beings have all been liberated, in truth not even a single being has actually been liberated.

Why? Because If a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form or phenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or a universal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple.




Sounds like he isn't afraid of death to me, he even says if you think any part of you is going to exist forever, you're wrong


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043121 - 02/28/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Half way there, it is also saying that there is no such thing as "you." There are no teachings because words cannot describe reality, there is nothing to be taught. There are no buddhas because in order for there to be a buddha, you have to admit that things are separated/differentiated.




Everything is consciousness and it's all you. It's the only thing you know for absoloutely sure. There's no half way there about it. That's all there is to know, just one thing, just one consciousness and you are IT. The "you" you are saying there is no such thing as is a concept.

I was listening to wilber and he put it that spirituality is a journey from the alone to the ALONE. Desolation is a beautiful thing, bring on the apocalypse.



--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14043184 - 02/28/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

but "you" don't even exist

How did you come to the conclusion that everything is consciousness?

Yes i am saying that concepts aren't real


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: What does this mean to you? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14043267 - 02/28/11 04:20 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I'm not saying everything is objectively consciousness, I am just saying that as far as you can tell everything is consciousness.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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