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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14052105 - 03/01/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:
yeah said: I'm not sure if I properly understand AlphaFalfa's recount of the events, but if I do then there are two things to be inferred:
1) He's lying. 2) Piano music was coming from a non discernible source as the piano in question was not observable. Therefore the source in question is left only to speculation.
I'm not sure what the deal is with all the snide remarks though, but it kind of pisses me off to read.
You obviously didn't read it correctly.
We were the only family in the village that had a piano and no technology existed in that rural village which could possibly have made musical sound that the piano makes.
I didn't say or imply there was. I was just making an entirely open ended assumption to what caused the music to be played. It could have came from thin air for all anyone knows, right?
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: yeah]
#14053002 - 03/02/11 06:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I just think it's interesting that AlphaFalfa has ignored my post at the end of page one...
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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Diploid
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14053049 - 03/02/11 06:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What do you call this?
I call that a comment about retarded comments.
I'm not going to argue with you. Call someone names again and you won't be posting here any more.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Diploid]
#14055851 - 03/02/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Ygor]
#14055860 - 03/02/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ygor said: I just think it's interesting that AlphaFalfa has ignored my post at the end of page one...
Sorry, i didn't see the relevance of your post.
And there were a few others that needed attention.
What was it again?
Something about making ourselves believe something for some purpose other than the truth?
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14058552 - 03/03/11 06:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
What was it again?
Something about making ourselves believe something for some purpose other than the truth?
Oh, it's still there. You can just go back and read it. All it is, is an explanation of why there were no ghosts in your piano room. It seemed relevant.
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Ygor]
#14067026 - 03/04/11 03:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ygor said: There's a choice of explanations in this Mysterious Case of the Piano Room.
One category of explanation includes the Mass Hallucination Hypothesis, the Failed Robbery Theory, the Coincidence Explanation, the Travelling Pianist Premise and so on. We can call these the physical explanations.
The other category, of course, is the paranormal explanations. Which would include ghosts, aliens, disembodied consciousnesses, astral travelling and ancestor spirits. The one thing that these have in common is that not only must we be lacking new evidence for these things, we must also disregard old evidence to allow them to exist. That is, we must abandon our understanding of how the brain works, how physical forces are transmitted, etc, etc..
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What must now be recognised is that no matter how ridiculous an explanation from the first category looks, it will always be more likely than an explanation from the second.
I can't see the relevance of this, nor can I see any reason to believe this.
I just look at the possibility of it being something else through deductive reasoning.
Theres no point of us even conversing on this subject in particular, because yo already errored on the side of probability without using deductive reasoning skills.
But I think Hume put it better:
Quote:
When anyone tells me, that he saw a dead man restored to life, I immediately consider with myself, whether it be more probable, that this person should either deceive or be deceived, or that the fact, which he relates, should have really happened. I weigh the one miracle against the other; and according to the superiority, which I discover, I pronounce my decision, and always reject the greater miracle. If the falsehood of the testimony would be more miraculous, than the event which he relates; then, and not till then, can he pretend to command my belief or opinion.
Do you honestly think that a mass hallucination caused all of this?
I would be surprised that Mass halluciantions exist. Can you give me an example of one?
Unless you mean everyone in church 'feeling' the presence of god as a mass hallucination I can't see how it relates to this example.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14067283 - 03/04/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't have any examples of mass hallucination, nor am I suggesting that that was the cause of this. I don't know where you got that from.
What I am saying is that no matter how convoluted or ridiculous a series of coincidences is needed to explain The Piano without resorting to the supernatural, that series is still more likely than the entirety of human knowledge being incorrect.
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Ygor]
#14067739 - 03/04/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Years ago I did a thread on why ghosts are mostly found in large, old wood houses and never in modern hi-rise apartments - and why they appear mostly at night (just like UFOs). Has to do with them being afraid of sunlight...
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Ygor]
#14068637 - 03/04/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ygor said: I don't have any examples of mass hallucination, nor am I suggesting that that was the cause of this. I don't know where you got that from.
What I am saying is that no matter how convoluted or ridiculous a series of coincidences is needed to explain The Piano without resorting to the supernatural, that series is still more likely than the entirety of human knowledge being incorrect.
it makes no difference whether or not it is more likely. The reason we know that these things are either one of the many interpretations available is because they have been rationalized. Although i do agree that there are times(not certain about propensity, nor do i think anyone could really be due to lack of studies done on this subject) that people mistaken their own expectational fears for ghosts.
However, in this case i have yet to find an explanation that doesn't surmount to correlating it positively with the supernatural side of life.
Go figure.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14068705 - 03/04/11 10:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe that is what he already said. The ignorant point to irrational explanations.
For you to come to the conlusion that it was a ghost, you would need a previous solid example of a ghost playing a piano. Do you have one? I bet the music wasn't even in the key of EeeeeEEEeee!
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (03/04/11 10:36 PM)
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I believe that is what he already said. The ignorant point to irrational explanations.
For you to come to the conlusion that it was a ghost, you would need a previous solid example of a ghost playing a piano. Do you have one? I bet the music wasn't even in the key of EeeeeEEEeee!
What other possibly conclusions are available?
i have no idea what the bold means to you.
i need previous solid example?
How does a previous solid example prove and by what scale do you measure 'solid' or 'weak'.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14069288 - 03/05/11 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: How does a previous solid example prove and by what scale do you measure 'solid' or 'weak'.
He didn't say that a previous solid example proves that you saw a ghost, did he? He said that you cannot come to the conclusion that it was a ghost without first having had a previous solid example; this is true because without a previous solid example, you would not know that what you saw or otherwise experienced was a ghost.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/05/11 01:57 AM)
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Poid]
#14069332 - 03/05/11 01:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: How does a previous solid example prove and by what scale do you measure 'solid' or 'weak'.
He didn't say that a previous solid example proves that you saw a ghost, did he? He said that you cannot come to the conclusion that it was a ghost without first having had a previous solid example; this is true because without a previous solid example, you would not know that what you saw was a ghost.
This assumes that ghosts can be seen, so you should prove why it is nessecary to see a ghost in order to believe in it.
it's also incorrect to say that you need that example because deductive logic is all that is nessecary.
i have however, heard countless stories similar to mine. Mind you, i had this experience before anyone told me that it was possible for ghosts to play the piano.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa] 2
#14069401 - 03/05/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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As if you understand deductive reasoning.
Unknown music source: therefore ghost? Seems you skipped a few hundred intermediate steps.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14069417 - 03/05/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: How does a previous solid example prove and by what scale do you measure 'solid' or 'weak'.
He didn't say that a previous solid example proves that you saw a ghost, did he? He said that you cannot come to the conclusion that it was a ghost without first having had a previous solid example; this is true because without a previous solid example, you would not know that what you saw was a ghost.
This assumes that ghosts can be seen...
What makes you think that? 
Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: ...so you should prove why it is nessecary to see a ghost in order to believe in it.
I didn't say that, I said it's necessary to have a solid example of a ghost before being able to logically come to the conclusion that you saw a ghost; you can believe in whatever you want, with or without evidence, lots of people do. 
Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: it's also incorrect to say that you need that example because deductive logic is all that is nessecary.
How could you come to the conclusion, using deductive logic, that what you saw was a ghost without first having confirmed what a ghost is in the first place?
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AlphaFalfa said: i have however, heard countless stories similar to mine.
Quote:
Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal to Common Practice)
The claim, as evidence for an idea, that many people believe it, or used to believe it, or do it.
If the discussion is about social conventions, such as "good manners", then this is a reasonable line of argument.
However, in the 1800's there was a widespread belief that bloodletting cured sickness. All of these people were not just wrong, but horribly wrong, because in fact it made people sicker. Clearly, the popularity of an idea is no guarantee that it's right.
Similarly, a common justification for bribery is that "Everybody does it". And in the past, this was a justification for slavery.
Quote:
AlphaFalfa said: Mind you, i had this experience before anyone told me that it was possible for ghosts to play the piano.
So? I'll bet you've also not experienced many things that people have told you ghosts do.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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AtomicShroom98
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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Brainstem]
#14069568 - 03/05/11 03:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You ask if consciousness can exist without the body? I ask you if the body can exist without consciousness? Without consciousness how could one expect that body to come to life? Without Consciousness nothing could exist at all because Consciousness is one component that allows the one to exist. Consciousness permeates itself throughout the entire universe. The universe itself is a sentient entity that is conscious of everything that happens everywhere. Just like all the planets and stars that make up all the galaxies in the universe. And the only way this is possible is because there is only one consciousness. YOU are that one consciousness. YOU are the universe. Everything comes from your conscious mind which rests inside you. In spirit form we are all exactly the same. We all are created from light and love and are given the ability to be aware of our surroundings. This makes everything connected together and everthing one and the same. Its the illusion of witnessing everyday all these "different" people and all these "different" things that tricks one into thinking that there is such a thing as people having seperate consciousness from one another. The only reason seperation ever occured is because that one consciousness wanted to be able to interact with its consciousness on a different level. It wanted to be able to express its consciousness by allowing it to split off into pieces which enables the one to be able to witness itself in many different forms and complexities besides only light and love. Thus creating individuality and free will and all the other aspects that come with it. In a way this is all just a grand experiment. And the experiment involves creating different ways for one to experience consciousness so that when the one fully reconnnects with the source, it will be like a reunion like no other.
-------------------- To those that don't know me, I am your guide. To those that don't like me, I am misunderstood.To those that don't see me, open your eyes, I am there. To those that don't hear me, listen, I am talking. To those that know me, I AM. > "Some call me the gangster of LOVE"......... - Steve Miller
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Practically all of that was complete baseless horseshit.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Ygor
Cyberite Sybarite



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Quote:
AtomicShroom98 said: You ask if consciousness can exist without the body? I ask you if the body can exist without consciousness?
Yup. Ever been in a morgue?
-------------------- Flowers gathered in the morning, Afternoon they blossom on. Still are withered by the evening, You can be me when I'm gone.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: The City of Brahman. [Re: Ygor]
#14069623 - 03/05/11 04:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think he means to say "Would our bodies even form if there was no such thing as consciousness?".
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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