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Offlinetotenkopf
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Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind !
    #14003808 - 02/21/11 08:40 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Please keep this tread clean for future readers... may I suggest that only experimented growers to answer these questions to avoid confusion

As this hobby always evolute and because there's not so much info about Pan culture... I think this tread would be useful to me.. and everyone else interested to get the most up-to-date 2011 infos available at the same place :dancer: !

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Q1. Which substrate would be a good one for Pan ?

Q2. Does the 2" maximum thick substrate is still good info ?

Q3. Does 1/8" to 1/4" thick casing layer is still good info ?

Q4. Does casing mix including sand like the "cactus mix" is THE optimum thing for Pan ? If not.. what's the best choice (mix or recipe)

Q5. Does the casing of Pan is different and should include nutriments on it ?

Q6. From spore syringes to grain jars, is it true that we should avoid to shake the jar around 30% of the colonization cause it would maybe never recover from it ?

Q7. About the humidity.. What's the optimal level ?

Q8. About temperature.. What's the optimal degree ? Day & Night

Q9. Could I do a few flush from the same tub as cubensis ?

Q10. About FAE.. How would I know that I dont provide enough new air exchange, would they dry, be short etc ?


** Personally I already have most of the answers but I'm really not sure about their accuracy ! Some are dating from 7 years.. some have never been really answered more than 1 time or haven't been debated.

Edited by totenkopf (02/21/11 10:05 PM)

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InvisibleOzzy
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14004280 - 02/21/11 10:02 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Change the color of the green text, having trouble making out what you are asking.....

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Offlinedeladude
king size


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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: Ozzy]
    #14004315 - 02/21/11 10:10 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

look up blue helix. he has AMAZING pan grow logs and gets very in depth of his methods


--------------------
losers always talk about doing their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Edited by deladude (02/21/11 10:10 PM)

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Invisiblestonesun
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14004382 - 02/21/11 10:23 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Q1. Which substrate would be a good one for Pan ?




Any manure based substrate will do well.
I personally prefer a horse manure/straw/vermiculite/gypsum mix.

Quote:

Q2. Does the 2" maximum thick substrate is still good info ?




Yes.
Kinda.
For best possible performance you should keep the substrate less than 2" thick.
I have however had OK results fruit it off in a bag on a 4"+ deep.

Quote:

Q3. Does 1/8" to 1/4" thick casing layer is still good info ?




Definitely.
About 1/4" works the best.

Quote:

Q4. Does casing mix including sand like the "cactus mix" is THE optimum thing for Pan ? If not.. what's the best choice (mix or recipe)




Cactus mix, cactus mix supplemented with vermiculite, seed starter mixes, Jiffy mix etc. will work.
Any pH balanced peat based casing will work.

Quote:

Q5. Does the casing of Pan is different and should include nutriments on it ?




No nutrients in the casing.
Peat/vermiculite/lime...That's it.

Quote:

Q6. From spore syringes to grain jars, is it true that we should avoid to shake the jar around 30% of the colonization cause it would maybe never recover from it ?




I have had mixed results with this one.
Most of the time it worked (shaking it), but some other times the mycelium did not recover.
Now I just leave them fully colonize without messing with it.

Quote:

Q7. About the humidity.. What's the optimal level ?




Depends on the stage of the fruiting, your RH should be 95%+ all the time.
100% before pinning and after flushes gives the best results.

Quote:

Q8. About temperature.. What's the optimal degree ? Day & Night




75-85F works well, the optimal being 78-80F.

Quote:

Q9. Could I do a few flush from the same tub as cubensis ?




Absolutely.
If well taken care of, a substrate can flush multiple times easily.

Quote:

Q10. About FAE.. How would I know that I dont provide enough new air exchange, would they dry, be short etc ?




Just give them as much fresh air as often as you can without ruining your
painfully maintained humidity level and you'll be rewarded.

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: stonesun]
    #14004387 - 02/21/11 10:24 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

see, told ya stonesun would be the man to PM for answers :smile:

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InvisibleBlindBat
learning to see

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 287
Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: biologys]
    #14005234 - 02/22/11 01:05 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

.

Edited by BlindBat (04/29/12 01:21 AM)

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Offlinecybernoodle2000
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: BlindBat]
    #14005712 - 02/22/11 03:11 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Glad to see a new Pan. thread. It is harder to find info on these than cubes. I have been reading as much as I can about Panaeolus Cinctulus, but most Pan talk is about Panaeolus Cyanescens. I wonder if a Cyanescens-TEK would be fine for Cinctulus as well?

I am trying to knock up WBS, and LC with a spore syringes I made from a wild Panaeolus Cinctulus print. It might take me awhile to get anything good, but I still have 6 other prints to try with anyways. Lets me practice sterile tek. at-least lol. 

Most everything you see about poo states horse poo is best because of its texture. However I seen in the FAQ that there in no better choice than cow poo for pans. I'm confused on this one.

Edited by cybernoodle2000 (02/22/11 04:07 PM)

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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: cybernoodle2000]
    #14005857 - 02/22/11 04:28 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Q1. Which substrate would be a good one for Pan ?

Q2. Does the 2" maximum thick substrate is still good info ?

Q3. Does 1/8" to 1/4" thick casing layer is still good info ?

Q4. Does casing mix including sand like the "cactus mix" is THE optimum thing for Pan ? If not.. what's the best choice (mix or recipe)

Q5. Does the casing of Pan is different and should include nutriments on it ?

Q6. From spore syringes to grain jars, is it true that we should avoid to shake the jar around 30% of the colonization cause it would maybe never recover from it ?

Q7. About the humidity.. What's the optimal level ?

Q8. About temperature.. What's the optimal degree ? Day & Night

Q9. Could I do a few flush from the same tub as cubensis ?

Q10. About FAE.. How would I know that I dont provide enough new air exchange, would they dry, be short etc ?

I answer the mojority these Q's regarding Pan's here <-

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Offlinetotenkopf
Less Newbie !


Registered: 10/24/10
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14006579 - 02/22/11 10:02 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks !

For sure had forgot many details like the PH, the misting etc..

So your welcome to add any additional details that you consider important to get a basic but complete sight of what to do to succeed.


--------------------
One baby foot step at a time, learning to crawl before thinking to jump one day !


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OfflineCloneufc
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14008129 - 02/22/11 03:17 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

The problem is that everyone has their own technique. I like to use temp's of 60-70 degree's F. Because Pans can contaminate easier, I find lower temp's better. Lower temp's tend to make the Pan's meatier.

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Offlinecybernoodle2000
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: Cloneufc]
    #14012109 - 02/23/11 06:25 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

I wonder if a Cyanescens-TEK would be fine for Cinctulus as well?

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Offlinetotenkopf
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Registered: 10/24/10
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: cybernoodle2000]
    #14012323 - 02/23/11 08:31 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

cybernoodle2000 said:
I wonder if a Cyanescens-TEK would be fine for Cinctulus as well?




Maybe you should avoid to hijack a tread that have been asked to stay clean to ask into a new post your question...no ?

:guns:  :guns:  :guns:


--------------------
One baby foot step at a time, learning to crawl before thinking to jump one day !


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Offlinecybernoodle2000
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14012465 - 02/23/11 09:11 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

I thought this was a general discussion about Pan. and not just simply for your outlined questions, and only for your very own personal amusement. Jeez, sorry bud. Pff

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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14028690 - 02/26/11 01:31 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Q1. Which substrate would be a good one for Pan ?



Fruiting mix (makes about 3 standard large spawn bags):
1) Manure      75  oz
2) WBS          18.8 oz
3) water        188  oz
4) vermiculite  2.5 liter
Breakup the horse manure by hand.  Remove any rocks, sticks, etc.  Add enough water to make 65% water per weight.  This is about 1.5X the dry weight on the above mix.  The moisture content is very important if you are trying to get a high-yield fruiting of hundreds or even thousands rather than a dozens of specimens per square foot.


Quote:

Q2. Does the 2" maximum thick substrate is still good info?



Yes.  I find that 2" is about perfect.  These are small mushrooms, so a deeper bed is not beneficial.  In fact a bed that is too deep doesn't yield well.

Quote:

Q3. Does 1/8" to 1/4" thick casing layer is still good info ?



I usually go 1/4" to 1/2" deep.  An 1/8" is a little thin for a heavy flush, although a little on the thin side is better than too thick.

Quote:

Q4. Does casing mix including sand like the "cactus mix" is THE optimum thing for Pan ? If not.. what's the best choice (mix or recipe)




No.  I used cactus mix and found it inferior.  The mix I use is, per volume, a third coco coir, third peat moss, and a third vermiculite.  To that I add a small amount, say a teaspoon per gallon or so, of calcium hydroxide (pickling lime).  Finally I add maybe 10% agricultural lime for a longer term pH buffer.  pH is pretty important and if you are using pickling lime, it is easy to screw it up.  Just for good measure I recommend you get one of those $30 cheap Chinese pH probes direct from Hong Kong as sold on Ebay that measures pH to at least +/-.2 degree; they are worth it for zeroing in on that 7.8 or so final pH on the mix.  I cannot over emphasize the importance of the right pH, especially on a mushroom with mycelium as delicate as pan cyans.  Hydrate the casing to saturation then squeeze it just a tiny bit.  The mix must be laid very fluffy and evenly for maximal fruiting.  I literally detail each square inch with a fork to make sure it is perfect because it's that important.  I get the best results if I case, cover with toothpick-hole-punched syran wrap for 24 to 48 hours, and then expose to the fruiter, although if the mycelium is really vigorous you can just expose to fruiting conditions right away.

Quote:

Q5. Does the casing of Pan is different and should include nutriments on it ?



No.  I do not recommend that.  If you introduce nutrients, you will increase the chance of contamination in later flushes.  I think the reason some folks were adding nutrients is to encourage the mycelium to better penetrate the casing, but if you get the pH right and have a good mycelium bed and KEEP THE TEMPERATURE UP, the mycelium will go through the casing.  One night, though, of say 72F the mycelium will probably stall before it penetrates the casing.  Once mycelium stops vegetative growth, it usually won't restart no matter what you do, so if the casing isn't colonized by then, you're totally screwed and your yield, if you get anything, will suck.

Quote:

Q6. From spore syringes to grain jars, is it true that we should avoid to shake the jar around 30% of the colonization cause it would maybe never recover from it ?




Grain jars is an old technique that i never use.  I like liquid culture to spawn bag with the final fruit out substrate.  The liquid culture is best inoculated with clean spores or with an agar wedge (in a glove box if you are to expose the liquid to outside air).

Quote:

Q7. About the humidity.. What's the optimal level ?



Near 100% to pinning.  About 24 hours after the first pins, I lower the humidity to 97% or so.  I keep a good deal of internal air circulation.

Quote:

Q8. About temperature.. What's the optimal degree ? Day & Night



Night or day I keep between 78F - 80F

Quote:

Q9. Could I do a few flush from the same tub as cubensis ?



Huh? 

Quote:

Q10. About FAE.. How would I know that I dont provide enough new air exchange, would they dry, be short etc ?



Fresh air exchange is best done via decent internal air circulation with a PC fan and having air introduced in your chamber somewhere passively by making sure your chamber isn't quite 100% air tight.  If you introduce too much fresh air, though, you'll probably have humidity stability issues unless you live in a tropical rain forest or something like that.  You got to weigh the introduction of fresh air with your ability to keep the humidity right.  If that weren't a problem, there wouldn't be such a thing as too much fresh air for these guys.  In fact I hear they grow *gasp* outside even in some places really well!


Quote:

** Personally I already have most of the answers but I'm really not sure about their accuracy ! Some are dating from 7 years.. some have never been really answered more than 1 time or haven't been debated.



Feel free to ask me any questions you want.

One thing that you did not mention was how to get many flushes to grow with these.  The key is WATER WATER WATER!  When you pick off the first flush, you should liberally pour water over the top of the tray such that it flows off.  If there are puddles on the surface, don't worry because those puddles will soak into the block in less than an hour.  And until the next pins, raise the humidity too. 

Just remember keeping pan cyans growing means keeping the substrate hydrated, which can be a real challenge after a heavy flush.  If you do it right, though, you can get 6 or more flushes out of a tray before it goes south.  Of course you can figure 80% of your yield will be in the first three probably, but it's fun to try to squeeze more out.  And there have been, in my case, those grows that surprised me with some really heavy fourth flushes...

Happy growing!


PS - Here are a couple pictures from a few of my grows over the years:


Edited by Blue Helix (02/26/11 11:04 AM)

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: Blue Helix]
    #14028752 - 02/26/11 02:03 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Feel free to ask me any questions you want.

One thing that you did not mention was how to get many flushes to grow with these.  The key is WATER WATER WATER!  When you pick off the first flush, you should liberally pour water over the top of the tray such that it flows off.  If there are puddle on the surface, that is good, not bad, and those puddles will soak into the block in less than an hour.  And until the next pins, raise the humidity a little too.  The biggest issue with keeping pan cyans growing is keeping the substrate hydrated, which can be a real challenge after a heavy flush.  If you do it right, though, you can get 6 or more flushes out of a tray before it goes south.  Of course you can figure 80% of your yield will be in the first three probably, but it's fun to try to squeeze more out.




pretty sure thast what he ment by "could i do few flush from same tub such as cubensis"

lol

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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: biologys]
    #14029849 - 02/26/11 11:00 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Ooops.... forgot the vermiculite in my fruiting mix.  Note I changed it.  All my grows are using the mix above.

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OfflineMoonraker
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: Blue Helix]
    #14030016 - 02/26/11 11:45 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:





:bow2:
That is all.


--------------------
A human race with more highly developed spiritual capacities, with expanded consciousness of the depth and the incomprehensible wonder of being, would also have greater understanding of and better consideration for the biological and material foundation of life on this earth, Above all, for Western people with their hypertrophied rationality, the development and expansion of a direct, emotional experience of reality, unobstructed by words and concepts, would be of evolutionary significance.

Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined.

To fall in hell or soar angelic,
You need a pinch of psychedelic.

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Offlinetotenkopf
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: Moonraker]
    #14036610 - 02/27/11 03:38 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR PERSONAL COMMENT BLUE HELIX !!!

It' rock  :rockon:  :headbanger:  :headbang:


--------------------
One baby foot step at a time, learning to crawl before thinking to jump one day !


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InvisibleeLShaMukO
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Re: Panaeolus Questions * update 2011 * What's new ? Old info to throw away & new one to keep in mind ! [Re: totenkopf]
    #14037413 - 02/27/11 06:07 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

:strokebeard2:


--------------------

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