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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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 Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way?  [Re: Lord Amok]
#14049970 - 03/01/11 05:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Did I call you anything?
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050006 - 03/01/11 05:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did I call you anything?
Sure you did, in a passive-aggressive, pansy-ish way.
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: TGRR]
#14050041 - 03/01/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nothing I post is passive-aggressive.
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Lord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 51
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050042 - 03/01/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did I call you anything?
Actually, I was responding to the way you spoke to Zeta. But your general level of assholish dogmatism has really been astounding so far.
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Viva las Vegas.
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050045 - 03/01/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Nothing I post is passive-aggressive.
Sure as hell was.
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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PurpleMushroomZeta
Mutant
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050050 - 03/01/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:Aside from the deeper idiocy that forcing them to take money they didn't want or need except because of the government's arcane rules, nobody with a semblance of an understanding of the English language should confuse the word gift with the phrase "loan at usury".
You got that right. Those banks are just suffering under crippling regulations, and yet they are still able to post record profits and pay record bonuses even while the rest of the economy crumbles. Must be American ingenuity and good old-fashioned elbow grease at work.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:They deserve every penny they get. You can't play centerfield for the Yankees, either. It is not your business to allocate somebody's pay.
True enough. If an entertainer is making millions and a moderately competent but politically connected CEO is making billions, while the people in charge of keeping us safe or educating our children can't make ends meet, then that's just how people are voting with their dollars. Everyone has a choice in how they spend every dollar they spend. If someone is opposed to companies that use third world sweatshops, they could buy their clothes from a small business that manufactures clothes in America -- if they can find any, that is.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:Maybe you should crusade in China. Good luck on your brave endeavor. Uber alles, Komrade, never forget to bravely speak truth to power.
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
--------------------
So like the wall started melting, and we were trying to scoop it up and put it back in place, and the songs on the radio sounded like they all had video game sound effects mixed in, but then when the lamp started talking, I ran outside and climbed a tree, and there were a bunch of trolls down there telling me to come down, and I said no because you're going to eat me, and the trolls told me that I was just tripping and that I should get down out of that tree before I fall and come back inside because it's cold, but I stayed up there and the trolls all left. Then when I thought it was safe I went back into the house, and I told my friends about how I almost got eaten by trolls. They just laughed because they were tripping.
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: PurpleMushroomZeta]
#14050066 - 03/01/11 05:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
You have to remember that conservatives hate kids.
I mean, they love a fetus, but the moment it's born, it's garbage.
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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PurpleMushroomZeta
Mutant
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: TGRR]
#14050089 - 03/01/11 06:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TGRR said:
Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
You have to remember that conservatives hate kids.
I mean, they love a fetus, but the moment it's born, it's garbage.
The way I understand it, the plan is to take our country back to 1890, rolling back women's rights, environmental laws, and labor protections. We'll need all those poor kids to work in the factories, and any that survive to adulthood without being crushed by machinery get sent to the front lines in whichever resource war we are currently fighting.
--------------------
So like the wall started melting, and we were trying to scoop it up and put it back in place, and the songs on the radio sounded like they all had video game sound effects mixed in, but then when the lamp started talking, I ran outside and climbed a tree, and there were a bunch of trolls down there telling me to come down, and I said no because you're going to eat me, and the trolls told me that I was just tripping and that I should get down out of that tree before I fall and come back inside because it's cold, but I stayed up there and the trolls all left. Then when I thought it was safe I went back into the house, and I told my friends about how I almost got eaten by trolls. They just laughed because they were tripping.
Edited by PurpleMushroomZeta (03/01/11 06:02 PM)
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: PurpleMushroomZeta]
#14050097 - 03/01/11 06:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Quote:
TGRR said:
Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
You have to remember that conservatives hate kids.
I mean, they love a fetus, but the moment it's born, it's garbage.
The way I understand it, the plan is to take our country back to 1890, rolling back women's rights, environmental laws, and labor protections. We'll need all those poor kids to work in the factories, and any that survive to adulthood without being crushed by machinery get sent to the front lines in whichever resource war we are currently fighting.
Get under that loom, kid! Those bobbins ain't gonna change themselves!
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: Lord Amok]
#14050106 - 03/01/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lord Amok said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did I call you anything?
Actually, I was responding to the way you spoke to Zeta. But your general level of assholish dogmatism has really been astounding so far.
Well then the answer is, "No, Zap, I am a frail little flower who makes up imagined slights".
Disagreeing with your particularly sophomorish understanding of the world doesn't make me either dogmatic or an asshole.
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050113 - 03/01/11 06:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Lord Amok said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did I call you anything?
Actually, I was responding to the way you spoke to Zeta. But your general level of assholish dogmatism has really been astounding so far.
Well then the answer is, "No, Zap, I am a frail little flower who makes up imagined slights".
Disagreeing with your particularly sophomorish understanding of the world doesn't make me either dogmatic or an asshole.
No, but the manner of your disagreement does.
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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Lord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 51
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: TGRR]
#14050147 - 03/01/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TGRR said:
Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
You have to remember that conservatives hate kids.
I mean, they love a fetus, but the moment it's born, it's garbage.
It's fine to mooch nutrients off your mother in utero, but god forbid that you should do the same with their well-earned money.
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Viva las Vegas.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: PurpleMushroomZeta]
#14050168 - 03/01/11 06:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PurpleMushroomZeta said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:Aside from the deeper idiocy that forcing them to take money they didn't want or need except because of the government's arcane rules, nobody with a semblance of an understanding of the English language should confuse the word gift with the phrase "loan at usury".
You got that right. Those banks are just suffering under crippling regulations, and yet they are still able to post record profits and pay record bonuses even while the rest of the economy crumbles. Must be American ingenuity and good old-fashioned elbow grease at work.
Here's what I know for a certainty. You couldn't do it. The banking industry is and has been for my entire life the most heavily regulated industry in the country. If you are jealous of their profits why the fuck don't you get on the bus? You can. Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:They deserve every penny they get. You can't play centerfield for the Yankees, either. It is not your business to allocate somebody's pay.
True enough. If an entertainer is making millions and a moderately competent but politically connected CEO is making billions, while the people in charge of keeping us safe or educating our children can't make ends meet, then that's just how people are voting with their dollars. Everyone has a choice in how they spend every dollar they spend. If someone is opposed to companies that use third world sweatshops, they could buy their clothes from a small business that manufactures clothes in America -- if they can find any, that is.
I guess you have an issue with politicians, then.
The group most responsible for the decline of the American manufacturing industry is the American consumer. The greedy fucks.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:Maybe you should crusade in China. Good luck on your brave endeavor. Uber alles, Komrade, never forget to bravely speak truth to power.
Maybe I like being able to buy a pair of jeans for a quarter-hour's pay, and don't care that some starving eight year old Bhutanese kid got maimed while making them.
Maybe? There's no maybe about it.
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Lord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 51
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050221 - 03/01/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Lord Amok said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did I call you anything?
Actually, I was responding to the way you spoke to Zeta. But your general level of assholish dogmatism has really been astounding so far.
Well then the answer is, "No, Zap, I am a frail little flower who makes up imagined slights".
Disagreeing with your particularly sophomorish understanding of the world doesn't make me either dogmatic or an asshole.
Imagined slights? I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine you calling Zeta "Komerade". If anything, you're the one imagining slights here. The guy agrees with you and you flip off the deep end? What kind of way is that to treat a fellow capitalist pig?
And of course my worldview is sophomorish. Because it's totally mature to act the way you've been acting, right?
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Viva las Vegas.
Edited by Lord Amok (03/01/11 06:23 PM)
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Atomsk
King of the Space Pirates
Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 34
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050440 - 03/01/11 06:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
The group most responsible for the decline of the American manufacturing industry is the American consumer. The greedy fucks.
Wait. Isnt the whole premise of free market libertarianism that if everyone acts completely in their own self interest things will be better for everyone?
So why isnt it working?
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Hitsuzen
Space Cowboy
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Earth 
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: Atomsk]
#14050464 - 03/01/11 07:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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What a pissing contest this thread has become
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Hate never yet dispelled hate,
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.
-Buddha
  
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Lord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 51
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: Atomsk]
#14050466 - 03/01/11 07:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Atomsk said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
The group most responsible for the decline of the American manufacturing industry is the American consumer. The greedy fucks.
Wait. Isnt the whole premise of free market libertarianism that if everyone acts completely in their own self interest things will be better for everyone?
So why isnt it working?
Because socialism, now shut up and watch your Fox News.
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Viva las Vegas.
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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,642
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 14 days, 18 hours
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: TGRR]
#14050495 - 03/01/11 07:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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socialism has gotten such a bad stigma in america, as the super rich and those with influence and control on the media have made it so, and have something to fear from people being in favor of such a system.
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
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PurpleMushroomZeta
Mutant
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14050530 - 03/01/11 07:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:Here's what I know for a certainty. You couldn't do it. The banking industry is and has been for my entire life the most heavily regulated industry in the country. If you are jealous of their profits why the fuck don't you get on the bus? You can.
What, you think I don't own stock in Goldman Sachs?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:I guess you have an issue with politicians, then.
Of course I do. Don't you?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:The group most responsible for the decline of the American manufacturing industry is the American consumer. The greedy fucks.
Yep, and stupid too. We saved a few bucks here and there buying cheap foreign-made goods from big box retailers instead of choosing American-made goods from local merchants, and now we wonder where all the jobs went. Well, you can't say we didn't deserve it.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:Maybe? There's no maybe about it.
--------------------
So like the wall started melting, and we were trying to scoop it up and put it back in place, and the songs on the radio sounded like they all had video game sound effects mixed in, but then when the lamp started talking, I ran outside and climbed a tree, and there were a bunch of trolls down there telling me to come down, and I said no because you're going to eat me, and the trolls told me that I was just tripping and that I should get down out of that tree before I fall and come back inside because it's cold, but I stayed up there and the trolls all left. Then when I thought it was safe I went back into the house, and I told my friends about how I almost got eaten by trolls. They just laughed because they were tripping.
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Can someone explain Socialism to me in a non biased way? [Re: Lord Amok]
#14050562 - 03/01/11 07:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushyHobo said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Its my understanding that socialist policies inevitably retard freedom and prosperity and any signifigant amount of these policies in proportion to other countries tends to create an unenviable disparity. Pretty much why socialist countries tend to have guards and walls keeping people locked in the employ of the state, or financial barriers of the same effect.
Right on! Originally from Kentucky and up in Canada now just because with the Obama recession and all I can make bigger buck here, plus there are some nice relaxed possession policies _for now_ which makes me breathe a little easier, if you know what I mean  
But I'm hardly able to take a walk outside without feeling the subdued misery and the tax+spend oppression is as tangible as a knife in the wallet. On the plus side, I was able to register for free healthcare after six months on a work visa, well - I'm am not an idiot, right? In and out. That's my plan.
You know how they say Canadians are more polite? It's just shell-shock. Remember the G20 in Toronto last year? That's the real face of soviet canuckistan.
What does your reply have to do with my post- which you've ostensibly responded to?
About the only way I can make sense of it is to presume you're assuming all sorts of unstated arguments and then ridiculing them, without bothering to show how they're a consequence of my position or post. 
Quote:
Lord Amok said:
Quote:
Nanny-state regulation? Get those no-future kids out of school and into productive work already - want to stimulate the economy? Don't steal the sweat from my brow and the bread from my pockets. Ha!
And putting so many lower-class people in entry level jobs totally won't make unemployment any more frequent than it is.
That's an interesting reply and perspective- you've described a situation where people are "put in" particular jobs. By whom, exactly?
You're not in a communist state, you don't have to work if you don't want to- no one's going to take your bread or jail/kill you if you quit your job or get a new one.
It seems you've presupposed that employment is an excercise of some central power- presumably the government. How is this justified? The government does not assign workers to jobs, at least non-communist ones, and disatisfaction with your job is anything but the burden of the society and government.
Your's is an attitude of entitlement and externalizing your problems. I doubt you'd maintain this perspective for long if you got a government that actually decided your lot in life- traditionally they have come along with repression and genocide.
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