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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: youth power [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14027265 - 02/25/11 07:49 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm not sure what you mean?:confused:



That there are discrete separations in humanity which can be labeled as different generations.  There aren't.  It's a lazy way of thinking about things and imposing divisions that don't really exist.




You don't believe in any sort of general change in attitude as we look back through the generations?  What about sexual promiscuity and selfish materialism?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: youth power [Re: deCypher]
    #14027281 - 02/25/11 07:52 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

My question would be are we really changing or throwing up a facade to make us feel better about our true nature.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14027295 - 02/25/11 07:56 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

What do you see our "true" human nature as?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #14027302 - 02/25/11 07:58 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Same as most all animals.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14027445 - 02/25/11 08:29 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

sleep->eat->poop
taking and giving back

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: giza]
    #14027602 - 02/25/11 09:05 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

survival and moving as high in pack hierarchy as possible.  This operates at all levels of social intercourse.  It's a power struggle, more benign in the less violent but still operating. Human politics and business is a lot like the game of Monopoly. You try to win and come out on top. You make deals and short term alliances but in the end mostly it's everyone for themselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc: Flag
Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14027686 - 02/25/11 09:20 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Interesting thoughts OP
My ownly disagreement is that the status qou would change
a little from generation. Cultural and technological changes
can heavily influence society over time.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14027740 - 02/25/11 09:33 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

A little change has already been acknowledged.  Emotionally humans remain the same throughout known history.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14027788 - 02/25/11 09:41 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Changes to our animal nature can only be imposed by technology. IMO we are in the process of being changed very rapidly by the technologies we have loosed into the world, so the "status quo" as we know it is in a constant state of flux. I will agree that so-called "youth revolutions" do not have a big impact on it. They simply demonstrate that generations sometimes develop their self-awareness in ways that are unpalatable to past generations.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14029382 - 02/26/11 09:04 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Please describe a change in our animal nature that has been caused by technology?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: youth power [Re: deCypher]
    #14030180 - 02/26/11 12:19 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm not sure what you mean?:confused:



That there are discrete separations in humanity which can be labeled as different generations.  There aren't.  It's a lazy way of thinking about things and imposing divisions that don't really exist.




You don't believe in any sort of general change in attitude as we look back through the generations?  What about sexual promiscuity and selfish materialism?



I see it as a gradual continuous change and not as a series of spurts.  Hence my use of the word quanta.  Where does one generation end and another begin?  It is a totally random imposition of structure on that which has none.  The water is liquid or gaseous.  It is not frozen into cubes.  Capisce?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: youth power [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14030394 - 02/26/11 01:05 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I wasn't specifically speaking to you.  In fact, I wasn't speaking to you at all but, rather, to the youngsters who think there is a specific delineated separation of generations.


Lots of old people think that there is a specific delineated separation of generations, too, it's not just youngsters; I see it as kind of a figure of speech when people mention "the baby boomer generation", or "generation x", I never thought that people actually believed that generations are, as you put it, quantized when they use those terms. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: youth power [Re: Poid]
    #14030712 - 02/26/11 02:22 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I wasn't specifically speaking to you.  In fact, I wasn't speaking to you at all but, rather, to the youngsters who think there is a specific delineated separation of generations.


Lots of old people think that there is a specific delineated separation of generations, too, it's not just youngsters; I see it as kind of a figure of speech when people mention "the baby boomer generation", or "generation x", I never thought that people actually believed that generations are, as you put it, quantized when they use those terms. :shrug:



You never thought they actually believed that in spite of their repeated citation of it?  And stupidity, though more highly concentrated in the young, is not exclusive to the young.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: youth power [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14030921 - 02/26/11 03:16 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineauxiliary
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Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14031634 - 02/26/11 05:45 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Why would change or rebellion be apparent? Because of the first generation's attempt to control.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: auxiliary]
    #14031718 - 02/26/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

perfectly natural


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14032980 - 02/26/11 09:41 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Please describe a change in our animal nature that has been caused by technology?




Quote:

Icelander said:
[animal nature is] survival and moving as high in pack hierarchy as possible.  This operates at all levels of social intercourse.  It's a power struggle, more benign in the less violent but still operating. Human politics and business is a lot like the game of Monopoly. You try to win and come out on top. You make deals and short term alliances but in the end mostly it's everyone for themselves.




I suppose this is true, but IMO the "status quo" is not defined by our animal nature; it's defined by the realities of the present day, and there are very real seismic shifts occurring in our shared culture following the relatively recent explosion of science and technology. We take for granted modes and media of communication that our parents never heard of at our age. This type of generational gap has become downright routine for us over the past few generations, but it has not always been thus. It's a new thing for us as a species, and for any species of animal on Earth, that we know of.

Moreover, it's easy (or at least, I think it's easy, but I do have some wacky ideas) to imagine that at some point in the not too distant future, a sentient A.I. or similar such nonsense will enslave the human race, in which case our animal nature will eventually become vestigial or recessive - computers are not programmed to look out for themselves or to climb to the top of social hierarchies.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (02/26/11 09:50 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14033174 - 02/26/11 10:07 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I suppose this is true, but IMO the "status quo" is not defined by our animal nature;

I really don't know how you can say that. Take a look at business including organized crime. Take a look at politics in govt and every sector of society.  They don't call it "dog eat dog" for nothing. 

We are run by the same emotional states as our primitive ancestors.  Is it just to me that this is beyond obvious?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: youth power [Re: Icelander]
    #14033212 - 02/26/11 10:15 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I just take it for granted. :shrug:

I mean, obviously we weren't be sitting here talking about the status quo if it weren't for our particular expression of our animal nature, so I don't see the point in referencing animal nature when discussing the status quo.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: youth power [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14033271 - 02/26/11 10:25 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Yeah I can see you don't.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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