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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #14027223 - 02/25/11 07:40 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

they will talk, but they don't stand by their words

That is imo because very few are motivated by the stated goal. As I said they are after power, not fair play. They want to wrest power from the old school and wield it themselves. And many of them are not really great people with altruistic motives. This is why the new boss is the same as the old boss almost every time.

Now of course this doesn't apply to everyone who wants change.  Just, imo, most.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23] * 1
    #14028120 - 02/25/11 10:58 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Also your space hats are confusing, :lol: I thought I was talking to cosmo there.




We are the borg. Change your avatar. Resistance is futile.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #14028165 - 02/25/11 11:09 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Oh right, I temporarily forgot how "misunderstood" Icelander is around here. :lol:

Kickle, the problem with our generation's revolution is that people will talk, but they don't stand by their words like they mean them.  Here, I am not talking about "standing by" as physical action.

Revolution is an idea. It starts out as idea, and remains an ideal in all of its possible proportions.

So what I am saying that you must seriously consider dialectic, as its manifest act of revolution. You or anyone else is not going to be able to just "convince" everybody. This doesn't mean that you will have to stomp over them with boots, but that you speak with substance.

Of all things, don't just diffuse the dialogue here. If you disagree with me, then by all means, please meet my thesis with a proper antithesis. Do you not understand that when you merely diffuse the situation, this is at stake of the said substance of my words? Do you not understand that it is far worse for criticisms to be brushed off, than to meet with their proper antithesis? 

Think about it. Meanwhile, can you tell me that I am wrongthat Icelander has up to this point wielded history and psychology as theoretical constants, and as definitions of man?




What makes a proper antithesis? Isn't that a one sided decision? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, merely weighing in. To be honest, with the exception of the reason I proposed of misunderstanding, I don't see anything in the posts of this thread that refutes Icelander's points. And that's why I posted that I thought it was a misunderstanding.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlineivander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14028971 - 02/26/11 05:09 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

I saw one thing. But as you I wont convince anyone of anything, just striving to form a personal pov. Either way, have fun.. lol


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14030009 - 02/26/11 11:41 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Oh right, I temporarily forgot how "misunderstood" Icelander is around here. :lol:

Kickle, the problem with our generation's revolution is that people will talk, but they don't stand by their words like they mean them.  Here, I am not talking about "standing by" as physical action.

Revolution is an idea. It starts out as idea, and remains an ideal in all of its possible proportions.

So what I am saying that you must seriously consider dialectic, as its manifest act of revolution. You or anyone else is not going to be able to just "convince" everybody. This doesn't mean that you will have to stomp over them with boots, but that you speak with substance.

Of all things, don't just diffuse the dialogue here. If you disagree with me, then by all means, please meet my thesis with a proper antithesis. Do you not understand that when you merely diffuse the situation, this is at stake of the said substance of my words? Do you not understand that it is far worse for criticisms to be brushed off, than to meet with their proper antithesis? 

Think about it. Meanwhile, can you tell me that I am wrongthat Icelander has up to this point wielded history and psychology as theoretical constants, and as definitions of man?




What makes a proper antithesis? Isn't that a one sided decision? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, merely weighing in. To be honest, with the exception of the reason I proposed of misunderstanding, I don't see anything in the posts of this thread that refutes Icelander's points. And that's why I posted that I thought it was a misunderstanding.




I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

If we are going to relate these times to another point in history, what point is equivalent?

As well as an appeal to authority.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Here's Diploid in another thread.

Like him, I used to think that technology, especially the internet, would bring the world together. What has actually happened is that it has segregated us more than ever.

There are IRC chat rooms for drug users. Non-drug users never go there. Other chats for Muslims. Other religions never go there. Web sites written in Spanish and other in Chinese. English speakers never go there. More and more people interact only with like minded people on-line and less and less go out into the real world to interact with a cross section of society.

The list goes on and on.

Couple that with entire countries that use that very same potentiating technology to isolate themselves. In China, any search that might tend to break down barriers between them and others is censored. And the Chinese are such sheeple that they don't seem to mind being told what to think by their government.

Despite mirror neurons, humans are doomed, IMO. We will never get along and that video is wishful thinking and nothing more.





How has this divided us? This is what lets these people being supressed and killed by an evil leader to get thier story's out. Before it would have been hear say, now there is proof for the whole world to see. Everything is being flushed out into the open, and it is nearly impossible to prevent. Take Wikileaks for example.


Regardless of the topics of an IRC chat room, people always have hung out with thier kind anyway.


Edited by teknix (02/26/11 11:56 AM)

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030096 - 02/26/11 12:03 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)


I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

If we are going to relate these times to another point in history, what point is equivalent?

As well as an appeal to authority.


I think more importantly than finding a point in history where so many people have revolted is  to recognize that people have revolted before. And the same cycle always happens. New leadership emerges, there is an afterglow period, but eventually it always cycles back to a new revolt needing to happen. That's why all the revolts of old have led to this point... 

Icelander already agreed that as population increases we should notice the amount of people revolting increase. :shrug:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030102 - 02/26/11 12:04 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

Did you check out the link I put up on revolutions in the last 100+ years?  So many people revolt now because the world population is huge now compared to the past.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030184 - 02/26/11 12:20 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

That isn't equivalent to a complete change of government.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030270 - 02/26/11 12:39 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

It's totally exciting. I'd rather be alive during the afterglow than alive during the decline. Unfortunately I think the whole cycle is speeding up. So I may be alive during both :undecided:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030294 - 02/26/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
That isn't equivalent to a complete change of government.





Are you talking about the French Revolution?:wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030366 - 02/26/11 12:58 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030428 - 02/26/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

:lol:

And I actually took a gander at the govt changes.

Dec 2002 - The two concepts, β€œgovernment” and β€œregime” also need to be distinguished. On 0th December 2002, there was indeed a change of government in Kenya from KANU to NARC, with substantial changes in the people who run the country politically. A new president was elected and he proceeded to form a new government. But the regime continued.


Just because a govt changes does not mean it gets better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030461 - 02/26/11 01:18 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

That's exactly what egypt is bitching about now ^.^

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030946 - 02/26/11 03:21 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

And that will continue all over the world.  The sad fact is that those willing to take power and hold it by any means are almost always the ones likely to succeed except maybe in the short run from time to time. 

Please don't get me wrong, I think it would be wonderful if you were correct. I just don't think there's a chance in hell for the reasons I stated.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031063 - 02/26/11 03:49 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I must have missed something.

No chance in hell for what?

:lol:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031159 - 02/26/11 04:04 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

A great new world to come out of all this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/26/11 04:15 PM)

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031284 - 02/26/11 04:34 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

You don't think these events are changing anything for these people in a positive manner?

How does what you think matter to them?

They are dying for this, so from thier perspective this is a pretty big deal and time of great change.

From my perspective, it is testiment to the human will, and the power of that will, made manifest.

Quote:

Icelander said:
A great new world to come out of all this.




I don't see anywhere in the thread anyone says that.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031413 - 02/26/11 05:03 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Yeah it's a good temp change most likely. Then things will get back to usual most likely.

How does what anyone thinks matter to anyone else?

And were was this human will all the other years that they didn't revolt?

We are all comming to realize that it is up to us to make the change. We don't want to fight, we don't want wars. We only want freedom. Humanity is crying out against the forces that assume to tell us how it is.

It is for us to decide how it is, and how it will be.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.


Unite all of humanity? Sounds like you were predicting a brave new world. This certainly sounds like pie in the sky to me.

No I think I was correct here.

Edited by Icelander (02/26/11 05:06 PM)

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031594 - 02/26/11 05:38 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

That isn't saying that these events are going to cause that.

Only action can and will cause that.

That is what I'm saying.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031631 - 02/26/11 05:44 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

No that's not really what you said.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days.

This is a statement of fact.



And frankly humanity is a very big place.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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