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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV
    #1402846 - 03/23/03 10:59 AM (14 years, 8 days ago)

And Donald Rumsfeld said it's a violation of the Geneva convention.

That's what was said to the USA about it's torture tactics. The USA responded by claiming "Oh, those guys we're torturing are Unlawful Combatants, not POW's"

Now, Iraq can says anything it wants too. Can't they? "oh, the USA is an unlawful regime" or something.

Wasn't it the USA that lowered the bar here? The USA has no respect for who they capture then they expect everyone else to respect the American fallen?

However, I'm sure it makes perfect sense to some people here.

READ THE STORY HERE


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 598
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403330 - 03/23/03 02:09 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

do you know where to find this video online? i doubt the mainstream media is allowed to show this. even though they show captured iraqis being paraded around and fried iraqi dead bodies all over the place. that hypocrite rumsfeld has gotta be pissed


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403354 - 03/23/03 02:19 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I think, since we aren't going by the Geneva convention that we should shoot all people waving the white flag. Would you humanitarians be for that?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (03/23/03 02:56 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403432 - 03/23/03 02:54 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I thought we were just doing that to save bullets.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1403447 - 03/23/03 02:58 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

I thought we were just doing that to save bullets.



my post was meant to be sarcastic (or absurd) but you have a point there, it would save us bullets. I say kill all iraqi's that give up.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403459 - 03/23/03 03:03 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

You might enjoy this article.


"Editorial: Lies, Lies and More Lies
24 March 2003

Yesterday the US-led army invading Iraq ? without UN approval, without international backing ? woke up to the reality of ground combat.

They learned first-hand that the Iraqi people do not want to be ?liberated? by them, and that the Iraqi Army is likely to fight to the very last.

Resistance continues in Umm Qasr, a small port city just inside Iraq which the US claimed to have taken days ago; and independent reports say that in Nassiriyah up to 20 American armored personnel carriers and tanks were taken out by the Iraqis.

What is not in doubt is that dozens of American soldiers may have been killed yesterday. More than a dozen were taken prisoner. The bodies of the dead were shown on Iraqi television. So were the frightened faces of Iraq?s first prisoners of war.

Those who have been getting their news exclusively from US networks probably have not seen these images. Priority was given to US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, whose denials slowly turned as the day progressed into grudging admissions.

Rumsfeld finally commanded the airwaves alone, after having bullied several major American networks ? CNN, Fox and MSNBC ? into not showing the images of the US prisoners of war and the dead.

He did this by referring to the Geneva Convention. Footage of the captured soldiers constituted ?propaganda?, Rumsfeld asserted.

At the same time, he managed to cast doubt on the fact that the captured were indeed American.

Rumsfeld?s newfound affection for the Geneva Convention is remarkable, given that there were images broadcast continuously the day before on US news networks of long lines of Iraqi prisoners surrendering, in US President George W. Bush?s words, ?gleefully, enthusiastically?.

The US does not believe that the prisoners now being held at Guantanamo Bay are prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention. Pictures of the men there, shackled and living in cages, were distributed by the Bush administration to the world?s media.

The US Army yesterday said that it considers the images of the US prisoners of war shown on Iraqi TV ?disgusting.? For those who have seen them, they invoke a complex mixture of emotions, including pity and surprise; but disgust is not among them.

Real war is an ugly business, and the US is now engaged in a real, complex war. All the signs are that the Iraqis do not want the Americans on their land, and are not going to give them as a present their vast oil reserves.

The war, it would appear, is going to be protracted, and things are going to get messier. The messier things get, the greater will be the need for clear, objective coverage from those who are covering it.

The US troops are fighting in the name of the US government. The US media, however, are not a paid-up, fully trained extra battalion of the US Army whose job it is to help the troops to victory. Rather, their job is to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth.

So far, they have told little but lies."


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403464 - 03/23/03 03:05 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Quote:

I thought we were just doing that to save bullets.



my post was meant to be sarcastic (or absurd) but you have a point there, it would save us bullets. I say kill all iraqi's that give up.



Sure. Great way to show them our intention of liberating them.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: silversoul7]
    #1403504 - 03/23/03 03:15 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

hey why not? They're surrendering and then firing at out troops.  The least we can do is show compasion and blow them off the face of the Earth.  Fair and Fair alike, i always say.  Right?  :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403913 - 03/23/03 05:55 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Are you talking about the people captured during the Afghanistan war? If so the distinction you fail to see is the our troops are wearing uniforms and the insignias of the US military. The unlawful combatants you mention were not wearing any uniforms or military insignia.

In Afghanistan we're actually on a battlefield. Al-Qaeda members captured under such circumstances can be tried by military tribunals if they are "unlawful combatants" under the 1949 Geneva Conventions. The convention governing prisoners of war defines unlawful combatants as participants in an armed conflict who abuse their civilian status to gain military advantage: those who do not carry arms openly and do not carry a "fixed distinctive sign" such as a uniform or other insignia that would identify them as soldiers. Terrorists appear to fall into this category almost by definition, as they depend on concealing their identity before their attacks.
Ordinary prisoners of war, by contrast, may also be tried for war crimes but are entitled to the same standard of process that would be applied to our own soldiers: that is, a full courtmartial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. But here's the catch: How do we distinguish between lawful and unlawful combatants in the first place? Until such a determination is made, all prisoners are presumptively entitled to POW status. Membership in al-Qaeda, per se, suggests unlawful combatant status, since a lawful combatant must be a member of an organization capable of complying with the laws of war. But it's not clear who gets to make this determination--a military tribunal or a full court-martial?


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1403924 - 03/23/03 06:01 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

So, only the people wearing the correct "outfits" get humane treatment?


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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403929 - 03/23/03 06:03 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Wasn't it the USA that lowered the bar here? The USA has no respect for who they capture then they expect everyone else to respect the American fallen?

Have you seen the footage of the 2,000 Iraqi soldiers who gave up? Did it look to you like they were being beaten and tourtured?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Registered: 11/24/02
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Murex]
    #1403936 - 03/23/03 06:06 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Have you seen the footage of the 2,000 Iraqi soldiers who gave up? Did it look to you like they were being beaten and tourtured?



I'm not saying they are being tortured, but I do ask: If we WERE torturing POW's would the American media broadcast it? The answer is a simple one.


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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1404000 - 03/23/03 06:26 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Someone here said it best: "Ifs and buts are candied nuts!"


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Registered: 11/24/02
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404020 - 03/23/03 06:32 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I think it's a very legitimate question. I'm questioning Murex's beliefs on the legitimacy of global media.


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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1404034 - 03/23/03 06:39 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I thought we were just doing that to save bullets.

Yeah, the price of a bullet is like $100.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1404039 - 03/23/03 06:41 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I think you give the US to much credit in thinking that it could hid all of these plots and atrocities so effectively. No other nation is held to a higher standard and scrutinized so much. If that were happening don't you think someone would break the story. A soldier with a camera would certainly be able to snap a pic or record audio of these things and slip it to the media. Our soldier are just normal people most of which would not let that stuff just happen. A soldier would be within his rights to refuse any such orders as well because that would be an unlawful order. With the embedded media and instant communications it would be nearly impossible to conceal such things. IMO.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1404093 - 03/23/03 07:02 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

With the embedded media and instant communications it would be nearly impossible to conceal such things. IMO.



It has happened before. This site describes the "United Fruit" debacle in good detail: http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/47/043.html

Our government staged a war for a banana company. Pathetic. I believe this was also documented on The History Channel.


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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1404170 - 03/23/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Much has changed since then. Someone could take digital images or audio and hand it to a reporter who could transmit that back to the US within a couple minutes.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1404272 - 03/23/03 08:21 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I say kill all iraqi's that give up.

It's easy talking tough behind a keyboard on the internet inny. My guess is if you ever saw an Iraqi face to face in combat far from "blowing him off the face of the earth" you would break wind, mess your drawers and start running in the opposite direction so hard your knees would be hitting your chin.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Registered: 01/31/03
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Re: Iraq shows dead/captured US troops on TV [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404292 - 03/23/03 08:29 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Silver we are not LIBERATING them we are stealing their oil remember. Jeez get with the program.

I thought we were just doing that to save bullets-Baby Hitler
thats funny, cruel but funny


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