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Invisibleuber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Male


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: Phred]
    #14030259 - 02/26/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Calm down O'Reilly. Did I say that the Bush administration misled the people into voting for the war by saying war was good for the economy? No. I said that many people were mislead (:tongue:) by extremists (war mongering fanatics) who used the argument that war is good for the economy among others. That argument came up many times when I discussed our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. I only brought it up b/c Zappa pointed out that many people were for the war when we went in. I stand by my statement that it was based on poor intelligence, poor history (WWII = Economic boom, so will this!) and post 9/11 fear of more attacks, which I still maintain aren't an acceptable reason for preemptive invasion.

I don't believe that Iraq or North Korea having a nuke is any more dangerous than Israel having them, or Russia having them, or us having them. Putting a "rogue" label on them doesn't sway my opinion. I'd rather be an ostrich than a nationalist.

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OfflineGrav
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Posts: 4,454
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14030267 - 02/26/11 12:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Extremism: is any ideology or political act far outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common moral standards

2003-2011 Documented Civilian deaths from violence in Iraq during war and occupation:  99,712 - 108,866

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14030387 - 02/26/11 01:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14030392 - 02/26/11 01:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm very happy that you have your own personal dictionary.

  You must feel special.  I'm going to repeat that the supposed People who were lied to were not asked.  The members of the Intelligence Committees in both Houses of Congress, the people with the inside skinny, voted overwhelmingly for both actions.  No lying, no extremism.  Go invent a religion.





And they wernt acting on shitty info then? Right because you know there WERE nuclear bombs in Iraq right?

:lol:

Thats one way to deal with it. Keep justifying you countries mistakes, that way you can sleep better at night.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


Edited by AlphaFalfa (02/26/11 01:25 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: Icelander]
    #14030485 - 02/26/11 01:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders, that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14030498 - 02/26/11 01:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If they can't have them than we shouldn't either.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14030547 - 02/26/11 01:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders,




how about a regime that throws people in rape-rooms for carrying pieces of vegetation? or a regime that jails people for publishing research questioning the official story of the jewish holocaust?

and that's none of your business how they run their society.  it's up to their people to change it if they don't like something, not foreign invaders.

Quote:

that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.




we're uttering threats about invading Iran, and have already invaded several other middle-eastern countries this past decade, killing in the hundreds of thousands, for our own interests.  and your bashing Iran because they're just talking shit? do you realize how hypocritical you're being?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14030676 - 02/26/11 02:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm very happy that you have your own personal dictionary.

  You must feel special.  I'm going to repeat that the supposed People who were lied to were not asked.  The members of the Intelligence Committees in both Houses of Congress, the people with the inside skinny, voted overwhelmingly for both actions.  No lying, no extremism.  Go invent a religion.





And they wernt acting on shitty info then? Right because you know there WERE nuclear bombs in Iraq right?




I'll suck your dick in Macy's window if you can find any example of somebody of substance saying Iraq had nuclear weapons
Quote:



:lol:

Thats one way to deal with it. Keep justifying you countries mistakes, that way you can sleep better at night.





Iraq was not a mistake.  The only mistake regarding Iraq was that they didn't remove Saddam the first time.


--------------------

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: uber_aj]
    #14030914 - 02/26/11 03:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Did I say that the Bush administration misled the people into voting for the war by saying war was good for the economy? No. I said that many people were mislead...




Which people? You and your classmates? Be specific. Next, show how these "many people" who were fooled had any connection to the decision made by Congress to authorize the use of military force against 'splodeydopes.

Quote:

...by extremists (war mongering fanatics)...




Again, be specific. Who exactly were these "extremist war-mongering fanatics" anyway? Are we talking Hell's Angels here? Birchers? Members of the Washington D.C.  constabulary? Opinion journalists? Give us a hint. No, scratch that. Don't give us a hint, be specific. Name names. Next, show how those you just named had any connection to the decision made by Congress to authorize the use of military force against 'splodeydopes.

Quote:

...who used the argument that war is good for the economy among others.




Again, be specific. Let's have a link to a quote from one of these oh-so-persuasive individuals you are so carefully dancing around naming claiming that war against the 'splodeydopes would help the economy.

Quote:

That argument came up many times...




Enough with the passive voice, already. Be specific. Name names. Arguments don't "come up", arguments are presented by specific people. Who are we talking about here? Wanda Dewitt from your sophomore year Black Studies seminar? Next, explain to the audience what kind of pull Wanda (or whoever) had with Congress.

Quote:

...when I discussed our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.




Discussed where? With whom? In which dorm did this take place? Be specific. Next, show how some drunken undergrad bull session influenced Congress to vote as they did.

Quote:

I don't believe that Iraq or North Korea having a nuke is any more dangerous than Israel having them, or Russia having them, or us having them.




Of course you don't.







Phred


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14031306 - 02/26/11 04:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders, that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.





You don't want?  You must be American:lol:  It's none of your business what they do at home and their threats are bs until they act.  It's not your tribe and they got to handle their own domestic shit. Try fixing up your country first. Bet ya can't.:haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14031323 - 02/26/11 04:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders, that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.




What do you imagine they'd do with one bomb?  Or even a dozen?


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Invisibleuber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Male


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: Phred]
    #14031420 - 02/26/11 05:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I don't have to be specific, you don't decide the rules of my posts. I didn't make the post to name names of people who are extremists. You've projected the ideas that it was the Bush administration into my writing and are demanding proof from me, fuck off with that. I never once said or implied that Congress was persuaded by the "war is good for the economy" argument, I said that people were. My father for example, as well as several people who were members of his church, a couple right wing nut jobs on other forums I went to, students and friends of mine as well, all pointed out to me that war was "good for the economy," based on the post WWII economic boom. These type of people who rationalize invading and killing people who had nothing to do with 9/11 are warn mongering extremists who don't care why we go to war, they just think it's exciting! They're motivated by similar religious stories, racism and nationalism as the evil middle-eastern extremists.

See, people who don't have any voice or power to influence Congress about the war can still take things called polls. Zappa mentioned that many of these people who were polled believed that war was a good idea. That's true, but most of those people were deceived, either by WMD claims or bullshit rationalizations for the war, b/c its easy to unite against a common enemy! Does that make sense to you? Do you understand the words that I've typed? Can we end your made up witch hunt, or do you have another list of loaded demands that take my words out of context and add to them?

Jesus titty fucking christ.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: uber_aj]
    #14031457 - 02/26/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
I can't be specific as I'm talking out my ass




There you go. Fixed for you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleuber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Male


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: uber_aj]
    #14031549 - 02/26/11 05:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

uber_aj said:
I can't be specific as I'm talking out my ass




There you go. Fixed for you.




Thanks, people hadn't done a good enough job of rephrasing my words to be whatever they wanted so they could make personal attacks. I appreciate your helpful addition.

:ifyoucanawe:

Here's what I really said:

Quote:

uber_aj said:
Zappa is right. Many people were mislead that the war would be good for the economy and that we were in danger of more terrorist attacks involving nukes. The extremists were the ones who sold us on these fanciful notions in our moment of heightened nationalism and fear post 9/11. The extremists are also the ones who still believe in the war.




Extremists, who take many forms and positions that certainly aren't limited to political parties and high government positions, championed the war as necessary. Some of them argued that war was good for the economy (even if it wasn't a majority of them, or one of the most popular arguments) and other misinformation like terrorist possession of WMDs. It's easy to tell who the extremists are, b/c they still think after a decade of war, hundreds of thousand of civilian deaths and a total inability to setup the governments we wanted and then let the indigenous people take back control, we should still be there hunting for Osama Bin Laden and fighting Al Qaeda.

Edited by uber_aj (02/26/11 05:31 PM)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: uber_aj]
    #14031670 - 02/26/11 05:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
I appreciate your helpful addition.




You're quite welcome.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14032204 - 02/26/11 07:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm very happy that you have your own personal dictionary.

  You must feel special.  I'm going to repeat that the supposed People who were lied to were not asked.  The members of the Intelligence Committees in both Houses of Congress, the people with the inside skinny, voted overwhelmingly for both actions.  No lying, no extremism.  Go invent a religion.





And they wernt acting on shitty info then? Right because you know there WERE nuclear bombs in Iraq right?




I'll suck your dick in Macy's window if you can find any example of somebody of substance saying Iraq had nuclear weapons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#Contents

:shrug:


Contents

The resolution cited many factors to justify the use of military force against Iraq:[2][3]
Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire, including interference with weapons inspectors.
Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."
Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."
Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people".
Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the alleged 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.
Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations.
The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and those who aided or harbored them.
The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.
The resolution "supported" and "encouraged" diplomatic efforts by President George W. Bush to "strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq" and "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."
The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

Quote:



:lol:

Thats one way to deal with it. Keep justifying you countries mistakes, that way you can sleep better at night.





Iraq was not a mistake.  The only mistake regarding Iraq was that they didn't remove Saddam the first time.




--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: TGRR]
    #14032216 - 02/26/11 07:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders, that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.




What do you imagine they'd do with one bomb?  Or even a dozen?





Give it to a terrorist group like hezbollah.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: Grav]
    #14032272 - 02/26/11 07:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
i didn't say we should be having another war.

i said it seems like the only possibility if we get into a situation where iran is likely to have the ability to attain a nuclear weapon.





Maybe we should attack ourselves for having nuclear weapons. :lol:There is some good evidence that we always use the weapons we have.





I just don't want a regime that kills people for being gay, kills people for promoting porno, makes women subject to their husbands wills, allows women to be married at the age of 9, kills protestestors and jails opposition leaders,




how about a regime that throws people in rape-rooms for carrying pieces of vegetation? or a regime that jails people for publishing research questioning the official story of the jewish holocaust?

Boo fucking whoooooo.

That pails in comparison to murdering people for protesting.



Quote:

and that's none of your business how they run their society.  it's up to their people to change it if they don't like something, not foreign invaders.





it is my business when they are taking hatred filled stances and their people cannot possibly fight back.

its up to their people to change it!

HA!!

i would like to see you go to iran and protest against a government only to see people around you maimed and killed.

Do you honestly think they can change it with such a fucked up regime?


Are you fucking mad?


Quote:

that seems to be uttering threats at other nations, that obviously promotes radical hatred towards the west and israel, to have any chance of obtaining a nuclear bomb.




we're uttering threats about invading Iran, and have already invaded several other middle-eastern countries this past decade, killing in the hundreds of thousands, for our own interests.  and your bashing Iran because they're just talking shit? do you realize how hypocritical you're being?




Talking shit?

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Execution_of_two_gay_teens_in_Iran_spurs_controversy



This was 2005. They've been doing this shit for so long.

Mudering, paralyzing, jailing, for protesting!!!


http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Unconfirmed:_20_dead,_hundreds_hurt_after_protest_in_Iranian_city_of_Ahwaz


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: uber_aj]
    #14032363 - 02/26/11 07:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

My father for example, as well as several people who were members of his church, a couple right wing nut jobs on other forums I went to, students and friends of mine as well, all pointed out to me that war was "good for the economy," based on the post WWII economic boom.




Okay... so basically, you are saying that some people were talked into thinking going to war was a good thing by other people who believed going to war was a good thing. Not by administration officials, or opinion journalists, or conspiracy-type cabals, but by just regular folks sharing their opinions.

Gee... what a startling revelation.

Now, why is it you call people whose opinion differs from yours "extremists"? And what made their argument so compelling they were able to "sell" (as you put it) the "fanciful notions" to just regular non-extremist folk?

Quote:

Zappa mentioned that many of these people who were polled believed that war was a good idea. That's true, but most of those people were deceived, either by WMD claims or bullshit rationalizations for the war, b/c its easy to unite against a common enemy!




Deceived? Deceived by whom? You seem not to want to claim the administration deceived anyone here (kudos to you for that, by the way), so that leaves... well... who does that leave as the "deceivers"? Friends, neighbors, acquaintances, random drunks on adjacent bar stools, whoever, who knew no more about the situation than the people they were "deceiving", I guess.

You have a very odd way of using words. It's no wonder your posts are so widely misunderstood.






Phred


--------------------

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OfflineAdam3295
Devil Dog
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Registered: 11/28/10
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Re: Potential War with IRAN - YAY or NAY? [Re: Phred]
    #14032436 - 02/26/11 08:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely

It’s better to attack than to be attacked. Wackmadinejad is an Anti-American radical. Lessons learned from WWII. We should strike before we have another Pearl Harbor.


--------------------
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
--  George Orwell  --



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