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Offlinedietrich
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Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow
    #14017213 - 02/23/11 11:15 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

My Cambodian spore syringe should arrive in just a few days now.  I plan on following the Doc's Tek using WBS to grow mycelium in a few quart jars.  Once they are fully colonized, I was planning on using a Sterilite 56 Quart Tub w/ lid (as seen here) to house a bulk substrate grow.  What would be the simplest bulk substrate to put layers of my spawn in between for  a newbie?  Also, how deep in this container should it be?  I am in a very rural area and have never heard of 'coir' and probably cannot get it anywhere either.  However, there is an abundance of straw here.

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

Edited by dietrich (02/23/11 11:30 PM)

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OfflinePsilocyentist
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: dietrich]
    #14017289 - 02/23/11 11:29 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

If you're in a rural area, I'm sure you can get your hands on some field aged horse manure.  :poop:


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Offlinetheruggedone
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: dietrich]
    #14017298 - 02/23/11 11:30 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

If you're in a rural area I would shoot for horse/cow poo and straw. You can likely get it for cheap from a farm. There are many teks here on spawning to bulk. Otherwise, you can get rye berries from a feed store in bulk and just fruit it directly from there. I started this way and have since tried poo/straw.

As for depth I would say 3-4 inches is good. Anything less would be a waste of effort. You can go higher but I've been told 8 inches is about max. Try a monotub and you'll get good results. Just make sure you drill the holes high enough so the sub is below them in the tub.

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: theruggedone]
    #14017315 - 02/23/11 11:35 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

remember that horse poo younger than about a year might not be the best to use.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

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invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineGrungeman17
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: Psilocyentist]
    #14017362 - 02/23/11 11:42 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

out-grow.com i know i keep telling people to take the easy way out but it is undenyable how noob friendly and high yeilding his freakin products are. His monthly special has EVERYTHING you need comes pre sterilized and pasturized at your door step for a good damn price IMO. if you like what you see, spread the word because we need to keep this guy in bussiness for the sake of noob bulk growers or for growers just plain tired of fuckin with shit...


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Offlinetheruggedone
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #14017383 - 02/23/11 11:46 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah, don't get the ones out of stable that are fresh.

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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: theruggedone]
    #14017526 - 02/24/11 12:12 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

yeah get field aged poo....or if you have a pet store get coir, it is normally cheap....If you follow docs WBS tek make sure you dry out the seed enough.....After strining lay it out on a towel 1/4 inch deep for an hour....


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The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.

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Invisiblepenhed
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: i GrOw StUFF]
    #14018403 - 02/24/11 05:54 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

what they said

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Offlinemojoganjaman
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: penhed]
    #14018768 - 02/24/11 08:40 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

when perusing the field for h-poo look for nuggets that have a white "dusting" on them...looks like faint myc...this is firefang and this poo will perform perfectly when crumbled and pasturised...h-poo also has straw built in...hth...:wink:



mojo


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Offlinemagnumzero
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: Grungeman17]
    #14018915 - 02/24/11 09:17 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Grungeman17 said:
out-grow.com i know i keep telling people to take the easy way out but it is undenyable how noob friendly and high yeilding his freakin products are. His monthly special has EVERYTHING you need comes pre sterilized and pasturized at your door step for a good damn price IMO. if you like what you see, spread the word because we need to keep this guy in bussiness for the sake of noob bulk growers or for growers just plain tired of fuckin with shit...




Yes. I just spawned to three of his compost bags. OG is the fuckin shit. You will be more than pleased with your results.

My first time I did coir/verm/gypsum pasteurized. This time I just used his bags of compost and damn am I pleased. Even if you aren't a first-timer, his products save you a lot of time and are well worth the price. Especially the incredible MONTHLY SPECIAL.

AND he hooks up Shroomery members with little bonuses.

You can't beat him, and I can't recommend him enough.


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OfflineGrungeman17
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: magnumzero]
    #14018989 - 02/24/11 09:41 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

im doin my first mono tub 2 lbs rye 2lbs manure compost and a brick of coir maybe a dash of crush oyster shell what do you think about that game plan?


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Invisiblebourndead
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: Grungeman17]
    #14019072 - 02/24/11 10:01 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Grungeman17 said:
im doin my first mono tub 2 lbs rye 2lbs manure compost and a brick of coir maybe a dash of crush oyster shell what do you think about that game plan?




:jacked:
no verm?
Have you worked out the volume needed to achieve the desired depth of substrate in your tub yet?

Also, since you're speaking in weight of spawn, as opposed to volume, is it safe to assume this weight is post hydration? I assume so since, if you're using weight I'm guessing you're probably buying presterilized from a vendor.
Typically 1lb of spawn equals ~1qt, assuming it's hydrated, and 1 brick of coir expands to ~7-8qts, plus the 2 or so (lbs)quarts of manure you're planning on using, and then you're probably gonna want to add some verm(2quarts per brick of coir) so you're looking at like a 1:6-1:7 ratio in the end.
I'd go shoot for a lot higher ratio for your first bulk if I were you, 1:2-1:4, speedier colonization thus less time leaving the door open for contaminants to come into the equation.
KISS
:grin:

Also, don't forget the gypsum at ~5% by volume.


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OfflineGrungeman17
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: bourndead]
    #14019157 - 02/24/11 10:20 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

lol sorry about that OP but its still good information none the less... yea i forgot ill add some verm too... im comfortable with a 1:6, 1:7, because i actually plan on following the tek how its intended "leaving it the fuck alone" it may take a lil extra time but im still confidant, and if i layer it nice it should hold up, my sterile teks are decent, and i plan to elevate above the floor.  thanks for your insight, gives me a little to think about.  definatly will add gypsm, and i will heat my verm in oven and fully pasturize the coir


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Offlinesiko887
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: bourndead]
    #14019170 - 02/24/11 10:23 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

coir can be aquired from any large local pet store. I began asking for coir but found that there are a lot of stupid people out there. Ask to be taken to see what reptile bedding they have. Than read the ingredients and I'm sure you will find one made from 100% coconut husks.(note: you don't want coconut husk's. Must be broken down into compressed bricks of coir) I found mine under the name plantation soil.


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Offlinedietrich
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: dietrich]
    #14019174 - 02/24/11 10:24 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Thanks for the replies everyone!

So here is what I'm understanding:
-follow the Tek for WBS and inoculate jars and shake them when they are around 30% colonized to help speed it up

-clean tub very well and sterilize it with alcohol

-put down a layers of black garbage bag to rise up on side of tub to prevent side-pinning (How do I sterilize a garbage bag?!?)

-when the jars are fully colonized, put the cakes into a clean bag and crush them inside until crumbles

-put a layer of bulk substrate (coir if I can find it or horse manure w/ vermiculite (What would be a good ratio for manure:vermiculite?  Also, should I combine coir with vermiculite too if I can find it?)  I also have a lot of straw on the farm if there's some way I could incorporate that and it would be more beneficial to my grow.

-after that first layer of bulk substrate is down, sprinkle some of the crumbled spawn onto it and cover again until all of my spawn and bulk substrate are layered without leaving any of the crumbled mycelium on the top layer

-put lid on top of tub and let the substrate fully colonize

-once fully colonized, how am I going to induce fruiting on this tub?  will it just do it by itself?  During fruiting, I will have it high humidity inside and warm since cambos like warmer temperatures.  I will do this by placing a space heater next to the tub for warmth and humidity of the moisure inside as well

Please do not tell me to use the search button, I have used it extensively, but get confused when people give different advice and grow their mushrooms with such different methods.  I'm posting this to ask if MINE is going to work, and if not, what minor adjustments should I make?  Hopefully I have it figured out enough to where they'd be minor anyway.

Thanks a million guys.


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Ich heiße Dietrich der Zauberpilz-Esser und bringe ich Frieden und Liebe für alle.

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: dietrich]
    #14021397 - 02/24/11 05:57 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION! :minigun:

:laugh2: :lmafo: :rofl: :rofl2: :lol: :awesome:

:calledajoke:

...now that we've taken care of that, here's the info you requested. I've recently discovered numbering topics in posts to be very helpful. We shall do this here now:

1. Your understanding of the WBS method is correct. If you'll be inoculating through polyfil, it's best to sterilize your jars, and then once cooled, move them directly from the PC into your still-air glove box for inoculation. If inoculating in open air, spray the fuck out of your work area with Oust and clean all surfaces intensely with Lysol or rubbing alcohol. Also, wear a mask and gloves. The dirtiest parts that we have as humans are our mouths and fingers.

2. You do not need to sterilize a garbage bag. Garbage bags are made in a high heat process and are very clean by the time you get them. Also, we are discussing using a pasteurized substrate, so sterility is no longer required. Aseptic technique/ sanitation is quite alright for this.

If you want, you can wipe the side of the bag that the substrate will be on down with alcohol.

Consider looking at this thread, if you haven't already.

Be sure to wear a mask and gloves, and spray your work area down well with Oust, wipe all surfaces with alcohol, etc. I know RR isn't very clean during inoculation of bulk pasteurized substrate. I am, though, and it's helped me out a lot since I started being this way.

3. For breaking up spawn, usually bashing the jars against a bike tire is the best way. You mentioned breaking up "cakes," so if you're using cakes and/or grain, the cakes can be broken up in a bag, yes, but a nice, clean blender does the best job. Blend it until it's about the consistency of pea gravel. :thumbup:

4. Coir and straw are not at all necessary. Straw makes for a great texture additive, but is more prone to contamination, in many people's experience.

You can add up to 50% vermiculite to manure. Coir is a good additive but is not necessary. 20-50% vermiculite added to :poop: will give you the best substrate there is. 2-5% gypsum is optional. %ages given in terms of volume.

If you want to use coir, vermiculite, gypsum, and manure, I would highly recommend this procedure.


5. Layering the substrate and spawn didn't work well for me. I carefully mix the spawn and substrate together just as large_dose does. I also use a 'frosting layer' like he does, but it's not a really frosting layer, because both he and I massage that extra spawn into the top 1-2" of substrate. I believe ProfessorPinHead said he does the same thing in my monotub thread.

Mixing the spawn and substrate gives you many more inoculation points, and overall increases the surface area of the spawn exponentially. If you want to, you can cover the top of the substrate with a very thin layer of additional substrate after mixing the spawn and the vast majority of the substrate together.

6. After full colonization, if you plan on fruiting uncased, loosen up the polyfil as loose as it possibly can be for all holes. I get it as loose as I can without it falling out. Then, turn a fan on low blowing away from the tub, but nearby. You can see how large-dose has it setup in his thread linked to above.

7. If planning on casing, wait until full colonization, case, keep polyfil at typical medium-density tightness for another 3-4 days, and then follow the procedure mentioned in 6.

Lemme know if I missed anything. :super:


--------------------
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Offlinedietrich
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: faceyneck]
    #14022216 - 02/24/11 08:09 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Thank you so much!  Now I fully understand casing!  I will do exactly as you described using pure horse manure mixed with vermiculite and have a thin layer of vermiculite on the bottom as my first layer with the spawn in the middle to spread to the manure.  Once that's fully colonized, I will add Miracle Grow Moisture Control potting soil mixed with vermiculite on top in a thin layer as the casing.  During colonization times, I will keep the lid on this tub to insure no contamination and high humidity; I may fan it a few times during colonization.  Then once everything is fully colonized (last being my casing/top layer), I can induce fruiting by moving a space heater inside to place next to the tub since cambodians like heat and take the lid off to fan often to allow air flow while misting the mycelium.

NOW I'm not overwhelmed that I have a simple plan right in step and know exactly what I'm going to do.  Literally all I have to do now is search how to sterilize the manure, which shouldn't be hard at all.

Cheers, thanks so much for all of your help!

EDIT:  Forgot to thank you for the great links also.  I plan on drilling holes and using polyfill on my tub as well, just as large_dose has.


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Ich heiße Dietrich der Zauberpilz-Esser und bringe ich Frieden und Liebe für alle.

Edited by dietrich (02/24/11 08:17 PM)

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Offlinedeladude
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: i GrOw StUFF]
    #14022760 - 02/24/11 10:01 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

i GrOw StUFF said:
yeah get field aged poo....or if you have a pet store get coir, it is normally cheap....If you follow docs WBS tek make sure you dry out the seed enough.....After strining lay it out on a towel 1/4 inch deep for an hour....



hahahaha WHAT?!?!
thats a little overkill. all you gotta do is rinse in a colander with hot water, shake till it barely drips, and let it sit for 30 minutes and thats plenty.lol


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: dietrich]
    #14023958 - 02/25/11 04:09 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Vermiculite on the bottom of the substrate is unnecessary. That's something that is done when fruiting cased grains. That's probably what you're confused about.

Doc grew cased grain. He would lay down a deep layer of grain and put a thick layer of coir on top to act as a casing layer. Using manure and vermiculite mixed together is a bulk substrate. The two techniques - cased grain vs bulk substrate - are similar, but different.

For a bulk substrate, I find it best to mix the manure-based substrate - manure and vermiculite, in your case - with the grain, gently massaging the grain into the manure substrate.

Manually fanning a couple of times during colonization is a good thing. Oftentimes, too much humidity will build up and you'll need to wipe the lid off with a paper towel to avoid constant dripping and pooling onto the substrate surface. In fact, I just had to do the same thing with my current manure-based bin.

You will want to fruit your tub almost exactly the same way you colonized it. Your last post suggested you were thinking about leaving the lid off. This will not work, and will result in too much evaporation.

For fruiting, simply cut the amount of polyfil used in each hole by about half or more - to the point where it barely stays in the hole., Then, turn on a fan in the room blowing away from the substrates. Look at the large_dose thread again. Do that with your fan.

Regarding heat - any Cubensis likes it the same temperature as any other Cubensis; room temperature, or up to 78 degrees F. Any higher than that, and you start to give bacteria the upper hand. We don't want that. Your spawn, bulk substrates, casings, and fruiting substrates should all be kept in an area with 12/12 on/off light, and have a typical temperature of around 70-78 degrees F, with 75 degrees F being about ideal.

Less is more here, too. You may consider simply  making the thing up, setting it near a window, putting a fan in the corner and then coming back a couple weeks later to harvest the fruits. It really is that simple. Any other things are just minor adjustments to try and milk as much weight out of the substrate as possible. For you - that fine-tuning can wait.

:kenthumbup:


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse!          First Ever Shmuvbox Tek!          Do Manure Right!

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Offlinedietrich
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Re: Newbie Needing Advice w/ 1st Bulk Grow [Re: faceyneck]
    #14030730 - 02/26/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Again, thank you VERY much!!  :-)


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