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OfflineKickleM
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Dispassion
    #14022435 - 02/24/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Been talking a lot about this with a co-worker...
In your opinion, is it helpful or hurtful in the spiritual quest?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14022462 - 02/24/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What exactly is the spiritual quest and how does it differ from the psychological quest?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14022479 - 02/24/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You mean like being a monk?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Icelander]
    #14022552 - 02/24/11 09:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What exactly is the spiritual quest and how does it differ from the psychological quest?




the reference material used.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Rahz]
    #14022558 - 02/24/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
You mean like being a monk?




Not necessarily. I've seen very passionate monks.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14022608 - 02/24/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, what passions are we talking about taking a pass on? Cause monks are required to restrict their passion in specific ways.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14022734 - 02/24/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
What exactly is the spiritual quest and how does it differ from the psychological quest?




the reference material used.





Well then dispassion would be a good thing mostly.  A some what neutral open stance would be best. Ready to accept what ever comes in fairly equally.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Icelander]
    #14022934 - 02/24/11 10:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If I'm reading this right, becoming 'detached' from what is occurring is a big part of being in the present moment and thus realising your full potential. If you are constantly reacting to things or reflecting on past events or the future of humanity or current suffering in the world, then you're not going to get there - you're not going to advance and find the Source within yourself. Besides, any judgment of another person is actually going to be detrimental to you, because then you've got this so-and-so in your reality, when, if you just ignored them, they for all practical purposes don't exist.

Got to have priorities.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14023026 - 02/24/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

IMO you need passion to stay motivated. Perhaps at some point that passion can be given up - I'll let you know when I'm there. But on the other side of the coin, passion for the wrong things can lead you astray. I suppose it's all relative.


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OfflineDLM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14023057 - 02/24/11 10:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Dispassion in as much as you rid yourself of the vices which hold you back while still keeping inspired to achieve realization. Excess is the name of evil.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14023179 - 02/24/11 11:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

dispassion can allow us to focus on more important things. but, it can also keep things hidden from us. thus, dispassion is more likely to be used properly once one has truly discovered their passions, which is hard when apathy can sometimes lead you to self-discovery.

so i guess my answer is "both." dispassion is a tool used by humans to help us as we navigate our lives, but, just like any human sentimentality or lack thereof, it can be overly indulged and grow to become a constant nuisance.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Dispassion [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14023279 - 02/24/11 11:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
IMO you need passion to stay motivated.




--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14023876 - 02/25/11 02:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The mind thrives on passions so to not 'go' with the mind & be strong in meditation dispassion is good, although i'd bet that billions of minds would be turned off by this concept because to the mind being dispassionate would mean being dull & boring, not living life fully, not realizing that the supreme Bliss & happiness of non-attachment is far beyond any temporary satisfaction of the minds fleeting & ever changing passions.

In ancient Advaita & many other eastern traditions its a commonly held view that an aspirant of the truth must be strong in two things - discernment (viveka) which is discerning the real (eternal) from the unreal (transient), and also strong in dispassion/non-attachment (vairagya) which is naturally the result of the first understanding that only the eternal is real & the transient is unreal.

If you really understand that there is no happiness in any 'thing' then you can leave things to be & be happy with what you already have

'he who is happy with what he already has is truly rich' Tao Te Ching

Vairagya is a beautiful word, when translated into English it loses some beauty imo, when we hear words like dispassion or detachment it sounds like something our minds have to 'do' so is a turn off, really its just about a beautiful space that is already completely unattached. So its not that your mind has to practice to become detached, not at all, you just have to realize You, the Self, is not ever attached to the mind.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14024797 - 02/25/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Passion begets creation.
Without it a painting would be merely colored  lines and a song would be no more than empty words.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14026854 - 02/25/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Been talking a lot about this with a co-worker...
In your opinion, is it helpful or hurtful in the spiritual quest?





every thang in moderation



"every terrible thang is a relief

even months on end buried in grief"


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Rahz]
    #14027543 - 02/25/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Well, what passions are we talking about taking a pass on? Cause monks are required to restrict their passion in specific ways.




All of 'em. A state of dispassion where passion does not arise. Not necessarily all the time, but also not necessarily in relation to any specific passion. Just a state of dispassion into your practice. Is it helpful or hurtful to the spiritual quest?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Chronic7]
    #14027617 - 02/25/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
The mind thrives on passions so to not 'go' with the mind & be strong in meditation dispassion is good




I agree. I think it's a good way to quiet the distractions.

Quote:

The Chronic said:
If you really understand that there is no happiness in any 'thing' then you can leave things to be & be happy with what you already have

'he who is happy with what he already has is truly rich' Tao Te Ching




Indeed. Trying to find happiness in things can lead to a dispassion towards things when it doesn't work, which can in turn lead to seeking happiness elsewhere. Seems like a beautiful occurrence to me. If one truly realizes that no thing has the happiness they seek.

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Vairagya is a beautiful word




It actually reminds me of attempts to keep passions past their time. In other words, it reminds me of Viagra. No offense intended.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Dispassion [Re: jivJaN]
    #14027637 - 02/25/11 09:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Passion begets creation.
Without it a painting would be merely colored  lines and a song would be no more than empty words.




Likewise without passion towards a painting or towards a song, they fall on empty eyes and empty ears.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14028227 - 02/25/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it works like that.
If i put passion into my song or into my painting , you are more likely to feel it when you observe/listen.

It is what separates true artists from impostors with nothing more than technique.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dispassion [Re: Kickle]
    #14028269 - 02/25/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Well, what passions are we talking about taking a pass on? Cause monks are required to restrict their passion in specific ways.




All of 'em. A state of dispassion where passion does not arise. Not necessarily all the time, but also not necessarily in relation to any specific passion. Just a state of dispassion into your practice. Is it helpful or hurtful to the spiritual quest?




In that case, I would say it's helpful. In another sense, passion is helpful because without it, there is no quest, though that opens up a very complex question regarding the nature of suffering, and how necessary it is.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (02/25/11 11:55 PM)


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