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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray
    #14021923 - 02/24/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Assuming that genetics is NOT the issue, because there's nothing we could do about that - what are some reasons for smaller mushrooms on a bulk tray?

- Bulk is coir using Daimon's tek
- Humidity is at a constant 90-95%
- Top of substrate is yellowish
- Mist/fan upwards of 5 times per day

Getting mushrooms 1" high at maturity. Any thoughts? Also, our holes in the GH are pretty large. Could that be an issue?



Edited by milkalfredo (02/24/11 07:57 PM)


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14021943 - 02/24/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What's a GH? A greenhouse?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: afrosheen]
    #14021951 - 02/24/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Can you post a photo of one of the trays?


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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: HTD]
    #14022097 - 02/24/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Here's a pic. Some of them have veils opening BEFORE THEY EVEN GET A MILLIMETER PAST THE SURFACE!

The tallest mature mushroom has gotten about 1". Average is about 1/2".



Edited by milkalfredo (02/24/11 07:57 PM)


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022140 - 02/24/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

could be sub depth...how deep is your trays?

i've also had monotub's do the first flush tiny ones like that, after harvesting then get what i consider my REAL 1st flush where the tub is full of normal sized mushrooms..


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: biologys]
    #14022165 - 02/24/11 07:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
could be sub depth...how deep is your trays?

i've also had monotub's do the first flush tiny ones like that, after harvesting then get what i consider my REAL 1st flush where the tub is full of normal sized mushrooms..




Sub depth is about 4-4.25"

I hope this tray turns out to be like your monotubs!!


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022170 - 02/24/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

if your misting and fanning properly and they turned out that way then chances are its just genetic's ..it'll work out for the best of ya.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: biologys]
    #14022214 - 02/24/11 08:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i'm experiencing the same thing. My hope is that the next flush will have better results. I started from 2 prints that were app. 1 3/4 inch dia. Have been following all directions here to a "t", got maybe 2 mushrooms I consider to be avg. size, rest were as tall as my the nail on my pinky is long.  Frustrated to say the least, but its all a learning experience and all in the name of science.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: dlaz]
    #14022504 - 02/24/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dlaz said:
i'm experiencing the same thing. My hope is that the next flush will have better results. I started from 2 prints that were app. 1 3/4 inch dia. Have been following all directions here to a "t", got maybe 2 mushrooms I consider to be avg. size, rest were as tall as my the nail on my pinky is long.  Frustrated to say the least, but its all a learning experience and all in the name of science.




Definitely frustrating.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022550 - 02/24/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Just some lil baby's you got there :baby: 
If they small on your 2nd flush, then its probably genetics.
Goodluck tho


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: esquaredx]
    #14022638 - 02/24/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i would definatley put that one off to genetics and im one that believes that 90% of the time its operator error.

i know a cube is a cube but everytime i grow large fruit they grow exactly like those.


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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: deladude]
    #14022693 - 02/24/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deladude said:
i would definatley put that one off to genetics and im one that believes that 90% of the time its operator error.

i know a cube is a cube but everytime i grow large fruit they grow exactly like those.




What do you mean? Your large fruits start like my small ones?


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Invisiblestonesun
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: deladude]
    #14022700 - 02/24/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022714 - 02/24/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

milkalfredo said:
Quote:

deladude said:
i would definatley put that one off to genetics and im one that believes that 90% of the time its operator error.

i know a cube is a cube but everytime i grow large fruit they grow exactly like those.




What do you mean? Your large fruits start like my small ones?



haha its just the name they are sold as. they are labeled (large fruit) just like they would label b+ or p.e.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14022739 - 02/24/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe the sub was a little over optimal field capacity during colonisation.:shrug:


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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14022782 - 02/24/11 10:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stonesun said:
Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...




Oh dang. What do you think they could be? Tried 2g and they're kicking ass so it must be some sort of psilocybe.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022800 - 02/24/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

milkalfredo said:
Quote:

stonesun said:
Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...




Oh dang. What do you think they could be? Tried 2g and they're kicking ass so it must be some sort of psilocybe.




they look fine to me. just shitty genetics


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022806 - 02/24/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

how many days you've given to colonize/consolidate the myc?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14022831 - 02/24/11 10:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

They're definitely Psilocybes.
I mean most likely they are cubes, but some of the fruits
look different.:shrug:
What they supposed to be?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14022853 - 02/24/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

hey stone, i dont wanna thread jack, is it ok if i PM ya with a quick question?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: biologys]
    #14022856 - 02/24/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Go for it!


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14022858 - 02/24/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think you didn't let it colonize fully


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14022873 - 02/24/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The myc need some time to digest the sub and store nutrients.
How many days you've given to colonize/consolidate the myc?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14023007 - 02/24/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
how many days you've given to colonize/consolidate the myc?




I think that tray got 12-13 days.


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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14023016 - 02/24/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stonesun said:
They're definitely Psilocybes.
I mean most likely they are cubes, but some of the fruits
look different.:shrug:
What they supposed to be?




They're supposed to be brazil. Any thoughts on what else they could be?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14023020 - 02/24/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
I think you didn't let it colonize fully



Quote:

Luger0815 said:
The myc need some time to digest the sub and store nutrients.
How many days you've given to colonize/consolidate the myc?



Come on you guys that has absolutely nuthin to do with it.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14023035 - 02/24/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

milkalfredo said:
Quote:

stonesun said:
They're definitely Psilocybes.
I mean most likely they are cubes, but some of the fruits
look different.:shrug:
What they supposed to be?




They're supposed to be brazil. Any thoughts on what else they could be?



Its still your brazils its just crap genetics


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: deladude]
    #14023038 - 02/24/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you say so...


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14023074 - 02/24/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
If you say so...



Mycdoesnt care when u tell it to fruit if its not ready it will wait til it is. Fruiting too early won't affect anything but contam rate


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: deladude]
    #14023094 - 02/24/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deladude said:
Quote:

Luger0815 said:
If you say so...



Mycdoesnt care when u tell it to fruit if its not ready it will wait til it is. Fruiting too early won't affect anything but contam rate




I doubt that.
Fruiting too early will also cause tiny fruits because the myc need time to digest the sub and store nutrient's.
Or am i wrong at this??


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14023110 - 02/24/11 11:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
Quote:

deladude said:
Quote:

Luger0815 said:
If you say so...



Mycdoesnt care when u tell it to fruit if its not ready it will wait til it is. Fruiting too early won't affect anything but contam rate




I doubt that.
Fruiting too early will also cause tiny fruits because the myc need time to digest the sub and store nutrient's.
Or am i wrong at this??



Most definitely wrong


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: stonesun]
    #14023235 - 02/24/11 11:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stonesun said:
Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...





Agreed.

OP, take a few pictures of fruits after you've picked them.  I'd like to see the upper stipe and gills.
RR


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14024000 - 02/25/11 04:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

milkalfredo said:
Assuming that genetics is NOT the issue, because there's nothing we could do about that - what are some reasons for smaller mushrooms on a bulk tray?

- Bulk is coir using Daimon's tek
- Humidity is at a constant 90-95%
- Top of substrate is yellowish
- Mist/fan upwards of 5 times per day

Getting mushrooms 1" high at maturity. Any thoughts? Also, our holes in the GH are pretty large. Could that be an issue?







Anyone has a clue ....?


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Offlinemilkalfredo
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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14024897 - 02/25/11 11:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

stonesun said:
Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...





Agreed.

OP, take a few pictures of fruits after you've picked them.  I'd like to see the upper stipe and gills.
RR





Here ya go:







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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14024917 - 02/25/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
Maybe the sub was a little over optimal field capacity during colonisation.:shrug:




That'd be my guess....your substrate is too wet...I'd reduce the mistings...possibly skip the dunk.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14024936 - 02/25/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

These are p. cub's.

Could it be, that if you spawn multi-strain grain to coir, with a higher spawn ratio like 1:2 or 1:1 there are so many different strains in the sub so every single strain has not a big amount/space of myc in the sub, what causes these little fruits?:shrug:
This would explain that everybody who is working with isolates doesn't even know about this problem?!
Just a thought...


Edited by Luger0815 (02/25/11 11:17 AM)


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14024961 - 02/25/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I did my last tubs @ 1:2 & have no problem w/ tiny fruits...we'll see on these next ones, I've got them @ 1:1...

but, off the top of my head, I'd say no...


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14024969 - 02/25/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
I did my last tubs @ 1:2 & have no problem w/ tiny fruits...we'll see on these next ones, I've got them @ 1:1...

but, off the top of my head, I'd say no...




Do you use multi-strain-grain?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14024987 - 02/25/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:awesomenod:  :yesnod:

MS syringe --> WBS ----> G2G ---> bulk (coir + verm + gypsum) ---> GH

(forgot the last step) --> nom nom nom


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14025008 - 02/25/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Okay i might be wrong at this but if you go G2G you reduce the number of strains in the jars every time you transfer.
Maybe this is enough to get good result's.
Imagine a bulk with 1000 different strains in one Sub, can this be good?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14025033 - 02/25/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

OK, no more  :jacked:

but, no I don't think that a G2G reduces the amount of strains in your jars, at all...besides, I just started doing the old G2G...first tubs weren't, they were just straight MS PE6

But  :2cents: is moisture content of the sub...


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14025047 - 02/25/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
But  :2cents: is moisture content of the sub...



Yes that was also my first thought......


Edited by Luger0815 (02/25/11 11:42 AM)


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14029664 - 02/26/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm led to believe my problem is too much moisture.  The sub is soaked, so no more misting for a while, fanning only. Should I put drainage holes in the bottom of my tray?  It's a black "flat" like for starting seedlings and such, or will I get pins popping out the bottom?


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: dlaz]
    #14029696 - 02/26/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, don't worry about the drainage holes, you'll probably end out over-drying your sub.

Just fan more per day to dry the sub, you should start seeing some good stuff happening soon. I wouldn't dunk it either, unless it somehow miraculously loses a bunch of moisture/water weight, but I doubt that's going to happen.

You'll need to dunk after the "second" flush, I don't think you're going to get a definite flush until that...


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14029757 - 02/26/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
Quote:

Luger0815 said:
Maybe the sub was a little over optimal field capacity during colonisation.:shrug:




That'd be my guess....your substrate is too wet...I'd reduce the mistings...possibly skip the dunk.




This was what I wanted to suggest.  I have had small fruits before,
when my tubs were getting too drenched in my GH:

Elephant Dung:


BPK:


Cambo:


African Transeki:


Another factor to consider is that the sub or spawn might have had
a bacterial contamination.  This would explain the yellowing and possibly
the size of the fruits.

Good luck OP,

JD


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Javadog]
    #14029775 - 02/26/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think he'd know if he had bacteria though, that's a pretty distinguishable smell...like jailhouse hooch & cheese & feet....gross...I just lost 3 tubs due to it...o well, good compost for me garden :grin:


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14030348 - 02/26/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks everyone


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14031902 - 02/26/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Its two things
1. the strain i have talked with several other members currently growing Brazilians. If there from ralphster then its just shitty spores ie genetics. At least with this specific strain

2. There drowning!!! Those things look super wet.. I can see the light shining off them. FAN


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: funguyi]
    #14031936 - 02/26/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:mmmkay:


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Luger0815]
    #14033052 - 02/26/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting genetic suggestion.

I can say that for me Brazilians were huge fruiters:


I hope you get better results going forward OP.

JD


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: Javadog]
    #14034385 - 02/27/11 04:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They're way too wet.  I've seen this happen before, over misted.  I've even seen it happen with oysters mushrooms.  The bin that i fanned and misted daily produced tiny fuits, that grew very slow.  The bin that I ignored made nice healthy fruits that grew normal speed. Stop misting all together and see what happens after a couple weeks.  My guess is they'll be another flush of nice look stuff.

RESIST THE URGE TO MIST!


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: milkalfredo]
    #14034391 - 02/27/11 04:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

milkalfredo said:
Quote:

stonesun said:
Some of those fruits don't even look like P. cubensis...




Oh dang. What do you think they could be? Tried 2g and they're kicking ass so it must be some sort of psilocybe.



They are Psilocybe cubensis, but I can see were stonesun is coming from. They look like Psathyrella.


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Re: Reasons for small mushrooms on bulk tray [Re: funguyi]
    #14034418 - 02/27/11 04:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

funguyi said:
Its two things
1. the strain i have talked with several other members currently growing Brazilians. If there from ralphster then its just shitty spores ie genetics. At least with this specific strain

2. There drowning!!! Those things look super wet.. I can see the light shining off them. FAN




I personally doubt that it has something to do with the genetics.
I also doubt that Ralphster is selling shitty genetics.
We will see if how the third flush will perform.
Maybe it is s a good idea not to dunk between the flushes until they grow normal.
One heavy misting after the first and second flush is maybe enough in this case.
Keep us updated milkafredo.


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