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Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineclown133
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Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 845
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
conversation on life, death, and consciousness
    #14020910 - 02/24/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i realize this is a lengthy read, i apologize. lets see how many people post "did not read this shit".

anyway, this is a conversation i had with a guy on omegle. it blew me away for a number of reasons, one being the fact that someone intelligent was on omegle.  it also one of the most profound and logical explainations of life i've ever heard.

Stranger: worms eat us
You: what about your consciousness?
Stranger: what about it.
Stranger: its not special
Stranger: its electricity running through chemical soup
Stranger: turn off the light, no more consciousness
You: so you dont believe that your consciousness if special?
You: at all?
Stranger: its special to me because its mine
Stranger: not to the universe
You: so is anything special in the universe? or is it all cut-n-dry, on and off?
Stranger: neither
You: it just is?
Stranger: everything can be special, but only relative to something else
You: true, but consciousness is something else entirely
Stranger: no its not
Stranger: birds fly, we dont. we think, they dont. cheetahs run super fast, we think. we run slow, the dont think.
Stranger: its just something we do to survive
You: what do you mean they dont think
Stranger: they dont contemplate ideas
You: how can you be so sure
Stranger: things that dont exist
Stranger: thorough testing of spatial and temporal reasoning on the part of highly accomplished behavioral scientists
You: i honestly have never heard that, so im not saying your right or wrong
Stranger: SOME animals might have rudimentary thought, like crows, parrots, dolphins, chimpanzees, and bonobos
You: ok that makes more sense
Stranger: but even most apes fail common tests of ideological behavior
You: i'm sorry but i dont exactly understand what the fact that most animals dont contemplate ideas has to do with consciousness
You: because they dont think they dont have a consciousness?
Stranger: the human consciousness is a human adaptive trait. the ability to be conscious of the future, the past, and things going on right now that you cant see, is uncommon and is a behavior on which human beings rely on almost exclusively
You: ok that makes sense
Stranger: because we rely on it almost exclusively, we think it must be so important
Stranger: but its like Douglas Adams's puddle. A puddle is sitting in a hole, and thinks to itself, "Well this hole fits me so perfectly - it must have been made JUST for me!"
You: the author?
Stranger: yeah he made an allegory
You: i think i knew that, i love his books
Stranger: that combined with our - again species specific and uncommon in the animal kingdom - knowledge of our own deaths
Stranger: we invent "knowledge" or identify erroneous "evidence" of the afterlife to comfort ourselves and simply reject the fear of our own demise
You: what do you mean by knowledge of our own deaths?
Stranger: we know we will die
You: and other animals dont?
Stranger: no. i dont think you realize that the vast majority of animals do not understand what the future is. i mean almost all animals on earth do not contemplate the future. what they do in preparation of the future is involuntary compulsions that have just happened to work out over millions of years.
You: youre right i didnt realize that at all
You: but it makes sense
Stranger: like a dung beatle isnt thinking "well once i get this pile of poop home, i will give it to my mate, she will lay eggs, and then in a month or so  we will have grubs, and the nutrients from the elephant poop will feed them"
Stranger: hes just thinking "roll roll roll roll"
You: but it's ingrained in their nature to roll the ball home for some reason right
Stranger: the beatles that didnt do that didnt have babies, and their dont-roll-poop genes died with them
Stranger: the beatles that did do that did have babies, and then there were even MORE beatles with genes telling them to roll roll roll
You: yea i understand
You: so anyway what youre saying is the fact that we can even have this conversation doesn
You: t make us special in any way?
Stranger: the conversation itself is special to us
You: yeah ik i just mean the fact that we as humans have this ability
Stranger: to talk?
You: im not saying its god given or anything
Stranger: just like dolphins, and bonobos
You: no to contemplate
Stranger: well it doesnt make us better
Stranger: we're actually pretty bad at surviving
You: yea ik that
Stranger: we keep ruining everything we touch
You: we're straying off topic
Stranger: how is that better than a tree?
You: death
You: when we die its just like a light going off?
Stranger: death is a boring topic. it's when a biological machine is too broken to function
Stranger: death is a return to the state you started in - lifelessness
Stranger: LIFE is whats important
Stranger: we have it for so little
You: i dont understand how you can function when you firmly believe that you mean nothing
Stranger: dont take it for granted
Stranger: i mean so much
Stranger: to me
Stranger: and the people i love
Stranger: because we spend our lives together
You: yes what does that matter?
Stranger: not because im immortal
Stranger: it matters to me
Stranger: i get to say whats important to me
You: its just electricity running thru chemical soup right?
Stranger: thats what i am, yes
Stranger: crazy, huh?
Stranger: all this from just that
Stranger: that's the beautiful part
You: but how can you even get your head around something like nothingness?
You: i sure cant
Stranger: you cant
Stranger: no one can
Stranger: you just accept it
Stranger: what else is there?
You: idk
You: thats why i asked
Stranger: pretending you're always going to be around forever?
Stranger: the sun's not going to be around forever
You: well everything youre saying makes complete sense, ive just never looked at it that way
Stranger: we are brilliant flashes, like meteroites in the night sky. it is very easy for a human being to think the world revolves around them because they can only see what is around them - and that world, their world, is literally revolving around them
You: yeah i understand i think
You: i just need to wrap my head around it
Stranger: growing up as a species - and as individuals - means coming to terms with our fears and ceasing our belief that they dont exist. we invented mythical races of people because we were SURE we werent alone. when we discovered we were alone on earth, we looked to the heavens and found aliens.
Stranger: every fear - loneliness, death, hunger, disaster, failure, embarassment
Stranger: does exist
Stranger: and will happen to you
Stranger: so figure out how to deal with it first
Stranger: and LIVE
Stranger: you dont have forever!
Stranger: dont waste time!
Stranger: do what you want to be doing, don't do what you think will get you what you think you want
Stranger: consequences have importance, but they're not the be-all end-all of why you do things
You: i just feel like my consciousness is so real and so unique and so un-electricity-running-thru soup
You: and i really cant comphrend how it can all just be a fucking process
Stranger: read up on neurobiology
Stranger: OH i actually have a beautiful video to show you
You: of?
Stranger: a neuroscientists pleading for peace
Stranger: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
You: copied pasted and saved for a later date
Stranger: if you watch it, 60% chance you'll be moved to tears, and 100% chance your life will improve for the better
You: well i like the odds i guess
Stranger: i mean, ive watched it with 50 people, and 30 of them cried
You: i'll definately check it out, thank you
You: youre quite a communicator you know that?
Stranger: im glad. it very painful for me to learn english.
Stranger: *it was
You: what nationality are you?
Stranger: american
Stranger: born and raised
You: were you raised to think this way?
Stranger: god no
You: didnt think so
Stranger: my parents dont even remotely contemplate such notions
Stranger: it was very atheistic. the idea of a god was just... never important
Stranger: and when other people talked about an invisible guy in the sky it just sorta seemed silly
Stranger: honestly it sounds like a boogeyman
You: true
Stranger: watch out, or god will turn you into a pillar of salt!
You: i honestly dont understand how more people dont believe what youre saying
You: it seems so real
Stranger: an infinite being with infinite wisdom and infinite power, and he'll turn you into SALT
Stranger: of all things
Stranger: for watching him burn a city to the ground
Stranger: sounds more like Caligula
You: well sir thank you for your words of wisedom i guess
You: i'd love to hear more but im fucking tired
Stranger: spread them
Stranger: people need to live now
Stranger: not worry about when we're not here anymore
You: i will, already copied and pasted this whole convo
Stranger: nice =)
Stranger: goodnight friend


--------------------


To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad ~ Jack Handey


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: clown133]
    #14020962 - 02/24/11 04:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well I didn't read it all but I disagree with a lot of what I read so I stopped reading.  He is way to certain about consciousness, especially the consciousness of other animals and the idea that man is alone in awareness of his own demise, I just do not buy.  I think animals are a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleZelse
Now with more Vitamin P!


Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 205
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #14021223 - 02/24/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I read the whole thing. The problem is you can never understand the objective, by living in the subjective, which is what we do.

That is to say that we can't understand the big picture, until we step outside of it, and that we are but a tiny part of a large universe, which may simply be a place for fragments of a collective consciousness to experience itself. Many people both through natural meditation and psychedelic use reach this conclusion.

Also, many arguments he describes aren't necessarily true, such as animals not having a conciousness. They may not think like you or I, but they have for the most part a sense of purpose, a sense of self preservation, and memories. Rats and bugs and elephants have memories. How else will they return to their nests and homes? Return to water? That requires concepts of the past. Hell even bacteria has a conciousness. It just isn't in the same frame as we are.

Einstein had it right. It's all relativity.



^ this long lecture describes it better than anything thus far IMO.


--------------------


Feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

Taking the Plunge: My First Trip

The Tao te Ching


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Offlineclown133
Stranger
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Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 845
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #14022483 - 02/24/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Well I didn't read it all but I disagree with a lot of what I read so I stopped reading.  He is way to certain about consciousness, especially the consciousness of other animals and the idea that man is alone in awareness of his own demise, I just do not buy.  I think animals are a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for.




yeah i questioned that as well, but what he said made sense to me


--------------------


To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad ~ Jack Handey


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OfflineThe Vapor
Lost In A Tea Daze


Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 8,433
Loc: Misty Mountains, B.C. Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: clown133]
    #14022515 - 02/24/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I really liked what he had to say, not sure about the validity of it though. Regardless it was an interesting read.

Gonna go watch that link now.


--------------------


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OfflineEnvix
Avoidant Disorder
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Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: clown133]
    #14022547 - 02/24/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

seems like any normal conversation between shroomerites. but in the public eye may seem quite daffy :flowstone:


--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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OfflineEnvix
Avoidant Disorder
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Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
Re: conversation on life, death, and consciousness [Re: Zelse]
    #14022600 - 02/24/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zelse said:



^ this long lecture describes it better than anything thus far IMO.



lol i was just watching this lecture like a week ago :whoa:


--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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