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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong
    #14016427 - 02/23/11 09:04 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

We just talked with John Shelby Spong. We met him last year, when he said to me, "The Gnostics were good people." Tonight, both he an d his wife autographed his last book for us, and we posed with him for a picture. I gave his wife, Christine, a manilla envelop with the article by Franco Fabbro, as well as a copy of my favorite mushroomic drawing by Christian mystic Jacob Boehme (plus a mushroomic interpretation from Carl Ruck, Clark Heinrich & Blaise Staple's The Apples of Apollo. I asked for their feedback on our Entheogenic Gnostic Christianity. We'll see them again twice next week. I see Spong, and told that I see him as the new Martin Luther, in terms of his significance to the history of Christianity. We're jazzed!

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm




Edited by MarkostheGnostic (02/28/11 06:09 PM)

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OfflineLion
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14016616 - 02/23/11 09:33 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Awesome! :cheers: I've seen you mention his works a lot, especially when people write ultra-negative dismissals of all aspects of Christianity.  It's always good to meet people who you admire greatly.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: Lion]
    #14018340 - 02/24/11 05:23 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Thanks for the positive response. Even my Lady seems surprised when I voice that Christianity is savable! Self-sacrificial love is of the essence of transcendence (hey that rhymes)! People use transcendence a lot around this forum, but few are ready to grok the mythic, archetypal form that this takes in the Western psyche because Christianity became corrupt almost as soon as it formed. But Christianity isn't alone. In a book by Lama Govinda that I'm reading, the ancient Vedic priests also did the same power-tripping, hierarchical thing with expensive ritual sacrifices in their priesthood, and their hierarchical  institution of the caste system. Hating Christianity is another level of the adolescent mind hating one's parents, because they impose a Superego on us and limit our animal Id. It's the same thing as any hatred of external authority. As soon as one assumes responsibility, and internalizes a high code of ethics - higher than the external rules - one ceases to hate external authority. It is my inner concern for kids that keeps me from speeding through a school zone in the morning, not the signs, cops, or laws that cops enforce. I don't need most laws for the same reason - I'm self-governing. My politic is non-violent anarchism in this respect.

But I digress. Christianity is about understanding the world-view of Jesus - even a completely mythic Jesus - because the viewpoint derives from a cosmic consciousness or a non-dualistic perspective. It has zero to do with politics, like the radical Right maintains IMO. The horizontal view to love one's neighbor is a side effect of the vertical view to love God, howsoever one conceives of God. High (Holy) people aren't haters - just the opposite.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14044123 - 02/28/11 06:19 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Didn't go to Spong's lecture tonight. We heard him talk on Matthew, and tonight was gonna be on Luke. You read one Synoptic gospel, you've read them all (not really, but...), so we'll go Wednesday when he addresses the gospel of John - the most mystical, least historical; the most popular, except for Jews. Most people think that the whole NT is Johannine in flavor: 'God clothed in flesh,' instead of the Synoptic take: 'A man anointed by God.' Very different, very significant for world history - particularly when the writings are misunderstood, misrepresented and misused (to the detriment of countless Jews over a thousand years). But also, there is the notion of a Master, a Godly man, as opposed to an Incarnation of God walking among us.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14044395 - 02/28/11 06:59 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

In the beginning was the Word... and the Word was made flesh.  :psychsplit:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: deCypher]
    #14044427 - 02/28/11 07:03 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
In the beginning was the Word... and the Word was made flesh.  :psychsplit:




Yes. John. Plagiarizing Philo of Alexandria on the Logos, and grafting in the Hellenistic mythology of demigods.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14044453 - 02/28/11 07:06 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Interesting... how much of Christianity would you say is actually original, percentage-wise?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: deCypher]
    #14044533 - 02/28/11 07:15 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

This very morning, I gave away a recently purchased 2nd hand copy of The Five Gospels, that was written by The Jesus Seminar. Unlike the red letter version of the KJV, this book, including Thomas, uses red, pink, grey and black. Red is accepted as being the words of Jesus, and then, pink is possible, grey is improbable and black is definitely not the words of Jesus. MOST of the writing turns out to be in black! I gave the book to a school security guard who changed from sleeping with married men, to a daily study of the Bible. I gave her former Shroomerite Enter's copy of Strong's Concordance to the Bible, that he gave me. Now, she needs to demythologize the Jesus she believe's in. Spong wrote a nice review on the back cover. So did Elaine Pagels and Dominic Crossan (whom we missed just before Spong came down here to Coral Gables Congregational Church.

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Gospels-Really-Search-Authentic/dp/006063040X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298945800&sr=8-1


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14044710 - 02/28/11 07:37 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Unlike the red letter version of the KJV, this book, including Thomas, uses red, pink, grey and black. Red is accepted as being the words of Jesus, and then, pink is possible, grey is improbable and black is definitely not the words of Jesus. MOST of the writing turns out to be in black!




Interesting; I guess I can't fault it TOO much though considering how little of anything else is truly original.  :lol:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Beyond Theism - Rev. John Shelby Spong [Re: deCypher]
    #14045156 - 02/28/11 08:47 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Unlike the red letter version of the KJV, this book, including Thomas, uses red, pink, grey and black. Red is accepted as being the words of Jesus, and then, pink is possible, grey is improbable and black is definitely not the words of Jesus. MOST of the writing turns out to be in black!




Interesting; I guess I can't fault it TOO much though considering how little of anything else is truly original.  :lol:




According to Spong, the NT is a repackaged OT, with the names changed. The gospels actually follow the Jewish liturgical year, as evidenced by the gospels themselves, yet Gentile Christians know so little about Judaism, that they can't see the forest for the trees. When Rev. Spong's books began to explain these things, it was like one of those 3-D abstracts that you look at and then there emerges a complete picture. Unfortunately, I cannot see those pictures, but the analogy is an apt one I think. I never saw the story line in the Tarot either until it was pointed out to me last summer during a couple of classes that we took.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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