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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
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We are angry with our leaders.
    #14016310 - 02/23/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This is the theme spreading like wild fire all across the world. We are all comming to realize that it is up to us to make the change. We don't want to fight, we don't want wars. We only want freedom. Humanity is crying out against the forces that assume to tell us how it is.

It is for us to decide how it is, and how it will be.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.

As these lines of division begin to blur, and merge into a larger picture, falling into place from its utter dissemination. It will be up to everyone of us to make the changes necessary to become a part of the voice of all humanity.

The voice of humanity is speaking.

Language was once a formidable barrier, this is not so today. We have at our fingertips the ability to comprehend all that is said by all people. Love, peace, freedom, harmony. This is the global consensus. This is what the majority of humanity wants.

The voice of humanity will not be defied by a few men.

We need to start from scratch, as the foundation that exists is built upon corruption, division, hate and lies.

We need to begin with the fuel that powers this corruption, which in itself is corrupt.


Edited by teknix (09/29/13 02:21 AM)


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InvisibleZelse
Now with more Vitamin P!


Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 205
Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14016375 - 02/23/11 08:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Beautiful, but will it really ever happen? Seems more like a dream to me, however optimistic I am. We've been bred into complacency; to be happy with our mini-vans and air-conditioning and horrible foods and capitalist government.


--------------------


Feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

Taking the Plunge: My First Trip

The Tao te Ching


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Zelse]
    #14016398 - 02/23/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It is happening! It's up to you to partake the best you can :smile:


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InvisibleBuckthorn
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14016424 - 02/23/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

2 bad this revolution is going to make our lives hellish unless we can manage 2 find hippie communes


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14016712 - 02/23/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
This is the theme spreading like wild fire all across the world. We are all comming to realize that it is up to us to make the change. We don't want to fight, we don't want wars. We only want freedom. Humanity is crying out against the forces that assume to tell us how it is.

It is for us to decide how it is, and how it will be.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.

As these lines of division begin to blur, and merge into a larger picture, falling into place from its utter dissemination. It will be up to everyone of us to make the changes necessary to become a part of the voice of all humanity.

The voice of humanity is speaking.

Language was once a formidable barrier, this is not so today. We have at our fingertips the ability to comprehend all that is said by all people. Love, peace, freedom, harmony. This is the global consensus. This is what the majority of humanity wants.

The voice of humanity will not be defied by a few men.

We need to start from scratch, as the foundation that exists is built upon corruption, division, hate and lies.

We need to begin with the fuel that powers this corruption, which in itself is corrupt.

Oil.





Don't count on it.  This is a tiny blip on the screen of nothing really changing.  Those who replace the corrupt leaders of today will be the corrupt leaders of tomorrow. Just watch and see. This has all happened many times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14016779 - 02/23/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, they will be corrupt if the pedestal on which they stand remains the same.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14016896 - 02/23/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It always has and there is no indication of any change.  Don't believe for a moment that because you and your friends all think the same that any kind of majority do.  It's always been this way and I myself was sure that major world change was coming out of the 60s and 70s which imo was a much larger movement than is happening now.  Each generation thinks that the energy of their youth will bring down the powers that be but it has never really been. Human nature will win the day because we have not altered emotionally from our early history.  There have always been the "awakened" few that might actually make a better (imo) world were they in charge but they never will have the numbers to make it so.  This, unfortunately is my conclusion after an fairly in depth study of history and human psychology. :sad: And I'll gladly bet my life savings on it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14016934 - 02/23/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If we keep shaking that very foundation, it will eventually give.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14016964 - 02/23/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I know looking at history it's all going to be the same, but what's to say our global consciousness, our general state of mind, isn't evolving or at least radically different from that in most of history?

I mean take for example all the activism and even wars for freedom - is it a sign we can't cohese, or is it a sign that freedom and life itself, deep down, is incredibly lusted for by our inner nature?

Life and the freedom it entails might be the only thing worth dying for.

:mel:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14017001 - 02/23/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
If we keep shaking that very foundation, it will eventually give.





There is no evidence to support that claim. In fact the opposite.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14017011 - 02/23/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Im just waiting for the self efficient power generators to come out they already exist:
http://swallowcommand.com/


That will be the first of its kind.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: circastes]
    #14017016 - 02/23/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:borat:

Go for it Teknix!


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: circastes]
    #14017045 - 02/23/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

but what's to say our global consciousness, our general state of mind, isn't evolving or at least radically different from that in most of history?


I think it's our psychology that is saying things won't be different.  Psychologically humanity is in a mess and maybe a bigger mess than normal because of the overcrowding on out little planet.  There is little indication of real change.  Do you really believe there is going to be significant change in the middle east. The powers that be are too invested to ever let that happen.  I'm as sure of that as I am sure that I am typing this. Humanity will have to develop and change psychologically and there is no evidence of that.  And frankly the high ideals of youth are never realized. Most everyone here at the shroomery will become a fairly normal middle aged citizen in just a few short years and most will put their drug use behind them as youthful folly and concentrate on making a buck, having a family  and getting ahead.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14017049 - 02/23/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

America does have corruption, however the theme of freedom on which is America's bedrock, is spreading. That is what we need to focus on. We need to be that for the world. We need to be that rock.

What are we if not that?

My post was directed towards the World, not just America.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14017067 - 02/23/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

America was built on the blood and genocide of the indigenous people that were already living here.  We killed them and took the land. We are now engaging in wars in other areas of the world to secure resources for our vast consumption and need for material wealth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14017160 - 02/23/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Your narrow focus is why you don't see America's role with the World.

I am not to condone misdeeds of the past, however, am I to blame for them? Are you?

It has been done.

The future is the focus.

Your narrow focus on America's History has little to do with the Future of the World.

Everyone makes mistakes, we are human.

Are all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?


Edited by teknix (02/23/11 11:11 PM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14017720 - 02/24/11 12:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
but what's to say our global consciousness, our general state of mind, isn't evolving or at least radically different from that in most of history?


I think it's our psychology that is saying things won't be different.  Psychologically humanity is in a mess and maybe a bigger mess than normal because of the overcrowding on out little planet.  There is little indication of real change.  Do you really believe there is going to be significant change in the middle east. The powers that be are too invested to ever let that happen.  I'm as sure of that as I am sure that I am typing this. Humanity will have to develop and change psychologically and there is no evidence of that.  And frankly the high ideals of youth are never realized. Most everyone here at the shroomery will become a fairly normal middle aged citizen in just a few short years and most will put their drug use behind them as youthful folly and concentrate on making a buck, having a family  and getting ahead.



Hrm... well I guess it's a matter of faith or hope at the moment. Obviously I think there IS such thing as good, or a kind of good background story to all this that sets it all right. Like, for example, that this is just a drama initiated by God's mind. I still don't think that's any more looney than thinking there is or isn't a patriarch in the sky, called by the same name. I at least have subjective evidence rather than brainwashing to support it.

That last thought... that we're all going to give this up... hehe, well, a guy I recently made friends with is in his thirties or forties, I can't remember, but he's about to invite me over for a mescaline trip (which I'm getting psyched about)!

I don't think I'll ever give it up. In fact, I don't think I can... consciousness is IT, there is nothing else to explore. Of course, I need to make a buck to get by, but guess where? Psychology...


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14018937 - 02/24/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Your narrow focus is why you don't see America's role with the World.

I am not to condone misdeeds of the past, however, am I to blame for them? Are you?

It has been done.

The future is the focus.



Your narrow focus on America's History has little to do with the Future of the World.

Everyone makes mistakes, we are human.

Are all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?




You said bedrock. That is a Myth. I'm guessing I know a lot more about the actual history and current political situation in this country than you do. Our history was not a "mistake". It was deliberate and is still going on deliberately and most Americans back it if not in word than in deed and lifestyle.

Imo it's you with the narrow focus.  Actually blinders would be a more apt term.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineskippyluvs
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019088 - 02/24/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It always has and there is no indication of any change.  Don't believe for a moment that because you and your friends all think the same that any kind of majority do.  It's always been this way and I myself was sure that major world change was coming out of the 60s and 70s which imo was a much larger movement than is happening now.  Each generation thinks that the energy of their youth will bring down the powers that be but it has never really been. Human nature will win the day because we have not altered emotionally from our early history.  There have always been the "awakened" few that might actually make a better (imo) world were they in charge but they never will have the numbers to make it so.  This, unfortunately is my conclusion after an fairly in depth study of history and human psychology. :sad: And I'll gladly bet my life savings on it.




Man Ice, it's folks like you that keeps my participation at this lovely corner of cyberspace at a bare minimum and my reading and relaxation while doing so - oh so high :pipesmoke::thumbup:


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Offlineskippyluvs
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019112 - 02/24/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
America was built on the blood and genocide of the indigenous people that were already living here.  We killed them and took the land. We are now engaging in wars in other areas of the world to secure resources for our vast consumption and need for material wealth.




^ You go - Yippity Yup Yup Yup! :monkeydance: :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: skippyluvs] * 1
    #14019163 - 02/24/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm here for ya bro.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019206 - 02/24/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We are playing with different cards this time around. The information revolution is what directly led to what they are terming the "Facebook Revolution" in Egypt. You'd have to be delusional to think things are going to same way as always. The regime change in Egypt took ~10 days! That is unprecedented. Only time will tell how it all turns out, but we are in uncharted territory for sure.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14019251 - 02/24/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Again and I can't stress this enough. As much as you believe technology will save the human race the odds are distinctly against that for one very very important reason. Human psychology and emotions. They have not altered in known human history with it's preponderance of wars and strife.  Just because it's all happening faster doesn't mean the outcome is going to be any different.

Youthful folly, you'll see. I promise. That's how sure I am.:lol:

If real change were to come to the human landscape I would look for it in millions of years in the future. Evolution takes time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019308 - 02/24/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We can't even begin to imagine the technology we are going to have 10 years from now. Could have Icelander in 1990 imagined the world of today?

Be open to possibilities of change. Don't write off the youth generation who has lived their lives on the internet. The world is getting smaller and it's getting harder for the power structures to push nationalism and other dividers on the human race. There is a trend emerging. The question is, "Will it take hold in time?"


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14019405 - 02/24/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How would this be articulated in continuety?

What is it here and now?


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14019430 - 02/24/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The same could be said for anytime in history. Could my great great great grandparents have imagined a world with telephones and cars and planes and TV etc. Yet that did not usher in any new world of peace and harmony. I'm going to say it again in hopes your mind and ears can open to the fact that human psychology has not changed and that change has to occur before peace wIll ever be a real prospect.  The internet is mostly used for business and porn and mindless entertainment and for most people is nothing more than a fancy TV. Check out the political forum and then remind yourself that this is the Shroomery.

There is no trend emerging and there is more strife and war than ever due to dwindling resources and more population. It's going to get worse not better until something decreases the human population and along with that some of the folly.

You'll see, I promise. I have thousands of years of history and precedence behind me and you have only vague hopes based on your very justifiable fears.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019595 - 02/24/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You'll see, I promise.



You'll see!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14019607 - 02/24/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You didn't promise.  That's the difference.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14019625 - 02/24/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12482311

A friend told me today that there protests in Wisconsin
:lol:

who knows.
i'm about ready for a revolution.

Put me in coach !


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14019641 - 02/24/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The corrupt teachers union. :tongue:  You have no idea.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019656 - 02/24/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You have no idea.




i have no idea what ur talking about.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14019777 - 02/24/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineivander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019853 - 02/24/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

are they corrupt, cuz they want to decrease they wages? and its not only teachers on the street, or is that wrong too?


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14019897 - 02/24/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

oh
i c now.
i had no idea.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14020000 - 02/24/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The money is running out. It never was real to begin with. The common American is not willing to lower his standard of living - There is going to be a lot more "protests" in the coming year.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: ivander]
    #14020139 - 02/24/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
are they corrupt, cuz they want to decrease they wages? and its not only teachers on the street, or is that wrong too?





what? Do some serious reading on the issue and the history of the teachers union and get back to me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14020146 - 02/24/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
The money is running out. It never was real to begin with. The common American is not willing to lower his standard of living - There is going to be a lot more "protests" in the coming year.





and I won't be among them. Americans are spoiled sick and have no skills at managing their material lives.  It serves them more than right.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14020316 - 02/24/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ivander said:
are they corrupt, cuz they want to decrease they wages? and its not only teachers on the street, or is that wrong too?





what? Do some serious reading on the issue and the history of the teachers union and get back to me.



im not interested in history, but in future... as it is said, no one want to decrees his standard of living, no matter if it is poor management of money or whatever.. beside im asking these question not because i know but because i dont know.. and im not asking for history lesson but for an answer. and either way IMo, this is not about the cause but about the effect. whether you think they are corrupt or not, they are on the street and that will have some effect for sure.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: ivander]
    #14020351 - 02/24/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

So your future is predetermined most likely.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14020397 - 02/24/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The corrupt teachers union. :tongue:  You have no idea.



are you aNGRY at a teacher for giving you a grade? how dare they judge you!


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: and yet it moves]
    #14020416 - 02/24/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: and yet it moves] * 1
    #14020637 - 02/24/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

and yet it moves said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
The corrupt teachers union. :tongue:  You have no idea.



are you aNGRY at a teacher for giving you a grade? how dare they judge you!





Nice try. Well not really very good. Maybe a D+


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14021444 - 02/24/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Again and I can't stress this enough. As much as you believe technology will save the human race the odds are distinctly against that for one very very important reason. Human psychology and emotions. They have not altered in known human history with it's preponderance of wars and strife.  Just because it's all happening faster doesn't mean the outcome is going to be any different.




What do you think about possible future neurotechnology that can modify the brain/optimize these maladaptive neurotic tendencies of our psychology?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: deCypher]
    #14021671 - 02/24/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

As Kostler said in his book "Ghost in the Machine"  something like that is likely our only hope.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14021886 - 02/24/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Here's Diploid in another thread.

Like him, I used to think that technology, especially the internet, would bring the world together. What has actually happened is that it has segregated us more than ever.

There are IRC chat rooms for drug users. Non-drug users never go there. Other chats for Muslims. Other religions never go there. Web sites written in Spanish and other in Chinese. English speakers never go there. More and more people interact only with like minded people on-line and less and less go out into the real world to interact with a cross section of society.

The list goes on and on.

Couple that with entire countries that use that very same potentiating technology to isolate themselves. In China, any search that might tend to break down barriers between them and others is censored. And the Chinese are such sheeple that they don't seem to mind being told what to think by their government.

Despite mirror neurons, humans are doomed, IMO. We will never get along and that video is wishful thinking and nothing more.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14022643 - 02/24/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Your narrow focus is why you don't see America's role with the World.

I am not to condone misdeeds of the past, however, am I to blame for them? Are you?

It has been done.

The future is the focus.



Your narrow focus on America's History has little to do with the Future of the World.

Everyone makes mistakes, we are human.

Are all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?




You said bedrock. That is a Myth. I'm guessing I know a lot more about the actual history and current political situation in this country than you do. Our history was not a "mistake". It was deliberate and is still going on deliberately and most Americans back it if not in word than in deed and lifestyle.

Imo it's you with the narrow focus.  Actually blinders would be a more apt term.




No it is not a Myth, it is an analogy.

I don't care about what history you know. Has it done you any bit of good?

The theme remains the same, the world wants freedom, and are willing to die for it.

Humanity has a chance to take a stand against the corruption, and it is standing.

Tell me another time in history, that so many revolutions have occured by so many different people, in such a short time span?

Diploid can believe what he wants, that doesn't lend any credence to your obtuse argument.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14022717 - 02/24/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't care about what history you know. Has it done you any bit of good?

Well it's allowed me to retire at 55 with all the money I'll ever need for one thing.

I was not aware that so many revolutions were taking place.  And nothing so far has changed much from any that I know of. :shrug:


I think you are very out of touch with "humanity".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14022933 - 02/24/11 10:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14024073 - 02/25/11 05:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'll bet you can find at least that many going on in the 60s,70s,80s etc.  Protests and revolts like that have been going on forever and are a dime a dozen and I've seen hundreds in my lifetime.

Like I always say "most humans believe that history begins and ends with their lifetime"
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=are+there+more+revolts+now+than+at+other+times+in+history&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=are+there+more+revolts+now+than+at+other+times+in+history&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivnsb&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=z6ZnTcP1JpK6sQPcwsmmBA&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CFQQ5wIwCg&bav=on.1,or.&fp=d18fa4a7e898769c

As you can see there have been mass revolts in the last hundred years and basically a steady increase as population increases and there were more in the early 2000s.


Edited by Icelander (02/25/11 06:02 AM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14024416 - 02/25/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Guys, will you be trying to convince everyone of your revolution? Is that how it works?

Wake up.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14024613 - 02/25/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The revolution is what got us here.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024705 - 02/25/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

So your future is predetermined most likely.



You are not helpful at all. Is it so difficult to answer a question, or you do that selectively, answering only those which would make you more of something.

And what about my future, to use your logic? How can you say that you know anything about my future if you do not know my history?


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024708 - 02/25/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Us? :rolleyes: I was born in the late 80's.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: ivander]
    #14024794 - 02/25/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

So your future is predetermined most likely.



You are not helpful at all. Is it so difficult to answer a question, or you do that selectively, answering only those which would make you more of something.

And what about my future, to use your logic? How can you say that you know anything about my future if you do not know my history?





Is my job here to be helpful to you?  And everything is a best guess. For instance I don't know your future but from the history of all other humans I can say with some assurance you will never be a Superman and you will die. Learning from history is one of the most important things you can do imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14024800 - 02/25/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Us? :rolleyes: I was born in the late 80's.





I was talking about the American Revolution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024840 - 02/25/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So what?


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024875 - 02/25/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

For instance I don't know your future but from the history of all other humans I can say with some assurance you will never be a Superman and you will die.






--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14024877 - 02/25/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It's what got us here. And now we need another revolution from the aftermath of that one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024889 - 02/25/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

So your future is predetermined most likely.



You are not helpful at all. Is it so difficult to answer a question, or you do that selectively, answering only those which would make you more of something.

And what about my future, to use your logic? How can you say that you know anything about my future if you do not know my history?





Is my job here to be helpful to you?  And everything is a best guess. For instance I don't know your future but from the history of all other humans I can say with some assurance you will never be a Superman and you will die. Learning from history is one of the most important things you can do imo.




If its not your job to be helpful, then why are you unhelpful? You are quick to jump around, and turn around discussion as you see fit. Are we now talking about history of the world, or history of american revolution or history of 'corrupted' teachers? To say my future is predetermined and conclude that I will die and not be a superman is equal to me saying 2+2=4. So I cant really grasp why did you said that in the first place. I do not live in the US, and I am just curious about the effects and reasons these people are on the streets? And I find it reasonable just to ask, rather, then to attend a history lessons. If you cant or wont provide an answer, then pls dont.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: ivander]
    #14024924 - 02/25/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You are quick to jump around, and turn around discussion as you see fit.

Indeed I am as is everyone else here. If you don't like it then you don't have to respond to my posts, it's very simple.

In no way am I being unhelpful to you. You seem to demand a certain response but I'm here for my own reasons and not yours. And imo once you do understand human history most of it is 2+2=4 but if you ignore it you don't know what the equation is.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14024974 - 02/25/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's what got us here. And now we need another revolution from the aftermath of that one.




The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

This is the nature of change.

"History" and "human psychology" are not constants, or knowns. These concepts are just the subject matter for understanding phenomena.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14025103 - 02/25/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

But it did not create a just or fair nation. It just helped to create the nation.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14025121 - 02/25/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The internet provides an instant, international, mostly uncensored form of mass media where almost anyone can contribute their ideas or information. I don't think history can predict what changes this will bring as there has never been anything like this before. A revolution would certainly be interesting but I think too many people are complacent at the moment.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: seylm]
    #14025141 - 02/25/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Like him, I used to think that technology, especially the internet, would bring the world together. What has actually happened is that it has segregated us more than ever.

There are IRC chat rooms for drug users. Non-drug users never go there. Other chats for Muslims. Other religions never go there. Web sites written in Spanish and other in Chinese. English speakers never go there. More and more people interact only with like minded people on-line and less and less go out into the real world to interact with a cross section of society.

The list goes on and on.

Couple that with entire countries that use that very same potentiating technology to isolate themselves. In China, any search that might tend to break down barriers between them and others is censored. And the Chinese are such sheeple that they don't seem to mind being told what to think by their government.

Despite mirror neurons, humans are doomed, IMO. We will never get along and that video is wishful thinking and nothing more.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: seylm]
    #14025144 - 02/25/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Again and I can't stress this enough. As much as you believe technology will save the human race the odds are distinctly against that for one very very important reason. Human psychology and emotions. They have not altered in known human history with it's preponderance of wars and strife.  Just because it's all happening faster doesn't mean the outcome is going to be any different.

Youthful folly, you'll see. I promise. That's how sure I am.

If real change were to come to the human landscape I would look for it in millions of years in the future. Evolution takes time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: seylm]
    #14025150 - 02/25/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

seylm said:
The internet provides an instant, international, mostly uncensored form of mass media where almost anyone can contribute their ideas or information. I don't think history can predict what changes this will bring as there has never been anything like this before. A revolution would certainly be interesting but I think too many people are complacent at the moment.





And actually the telephone and telegraph were like the internet in ways and compared to what was before were just as revolutionary.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14025151 - 02/25/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The Arab population is currently the youngest in the world.  With youth comes change.  Don't listen to these Mickey Mouse intellectuals complacent with their lives.  Just know your neighbor will fight you to the death if he thought you were trying to take away his "right" to cable TV, and fuel injection.  The Arab world has successfully bred a new generation of socially minded individuals who demonstrate time and time again, their commitment to their cause (whatever it may be) by sacrificing their lives.  Acknowledging that there are things greater than the individual that require some sacrifice.
Teach your kids to live the change you create.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: LisonAlGaib]
    #14025186 - 02/25/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Acknowledging that there are things greater than the individual that require some sacrifice.

What does this mean exactly.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14025188 - 02/25/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

But it did not create a just or fair nation. It just helped to create the nation.




:lol: How romantic.

Sounds like the pessimism you've expressed comes hand in hand with a pretty naive sense of idealism.


--------------------
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  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14025210 - 02/25/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it will save the human race, IMO we're kinda fucked... but false hope is better than no hope at all :retawed:. I see your point about war and strife and agree with it. The currents systems piss me off though and if the chance (however improbable) comes to try and bring some change I'm all for it.

The telephone and the telegraph didn't allow things like message boards, where people's messages stay available for anyone who wishes to read them or search engines, which allow easy access to vast amounts of current information and opinions.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14025279 - 02/25/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

But it did not create a just or fair nation. It just helped to create the nation.




:lol: How romantic.

Sounds like the pessimism you've expressed comes hand in hand with a pretty naive sense of idealism.





As usual I don't follow you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: seylm]
    #14025287 - 02/25/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

but false hope is better than no hope at all

Be careful with false hope. It can get you killed. For nothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14025791 - 02/25/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

But it did not create a just or fair nation. It just helped to create the nation.




:lol: How romantic.

Sounds like the pessimism you've expressed comes hand in hand with a pretty naive sense of idealism.





As usual I don't follow you.




I'm questioning your will to a "just nation", Jack.

To me, that sounds like a utopian ideal. I don't blame you for not believing in it.

But your pessimism is spot on.

You're a conservative at heart. I get it, you're getting old. Like any conservative, you are insecure with your current existence, so you deny change as change.

You define "psychology" and "history" as theoretical constants, because you are uncomfortable with their reality as real phenomena of change. You bring these variable constants to a discussion.

Revolutionaries and philosophers would clearly recognize this method of dialogue as reification of human condition. It is a simple and yet subtle turn of dialogue to turn the idea of a subject matter into a "real" subject. Here, your point is that we are the subjects of "history" and "psychology", and of course, implied in that notion of being "subject", is being subject to an authority.

Gee wiz, I wonder who the implied authority on these subjects might be around here? :lol:

I already laughed once, didn't I...

Don't mind me, just the meanderings of a fool! I'll find my own way out. Good day, sir! Tee Hee


Edited by daytripper23 (02/25/11 02:41 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: daytripper23]
    #14025824 - 02/25/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

OUCH !
:lol:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #14025885 - 02/25/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
The American revolution brought reform, as well as the independency of a nation.

But it did not create a just or fair nation. It just helped to create the nation.




:lol: How romantic.

Sounds like the pessimism you've expressed comes hand in hand with a pretty naive sense of idealism.





As usual I don't follow you.




I'm questioning your will to a "just nation", Jack.

To me, that sounds like a utopian ideal. I don't blame you for not believing in it.

But your pessimism is spot on.

You're a conservative at heart. I get it, you're getting old. Like any conservative, you are insecure with your current existence, so you deny change as change.

You define "psychology" and "history" as theoretical constants, because you are uncomfortable with their reality as real phenomena of change. You bring these variable constants to a discussion.

Revolutionaries and philosophers would clearly recognize this method of dialogue as reification of human condition. It is a simple and yet subtle turn of dialogue to turn the idea of a subject matter into a "real" subject. Here, your point is that we are the subjects of "history" and "psychology", and of course, implied in that notion of being "subject", is being subject to an authority.

Gee wiz, I wonder who the implied authority on these subjects might be around here? :lol:

I already laughed once, didn't I...

Don't mind me, just the meanderings of a fool! I'll find my own way out. Good day, sir! Tee Hee





When does your brave new world begin?  Are the citizens of America really that different than the citizens of Rome?

You don't have to leave, you're safe here. It's the Philosophy forum that gave you the boot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14026004 - 02/25/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think everyone is riled up because they think Icelander is denying change. IMO he is not denying change. He is denying that this is some sort of special change, something outside of the typical cycling of existence that has been happening throughout human history.

The rising and falling we experience really is nothing new. But that isn't to say it isn't exciting. I really enjoyed some of the interviews that came out after Egypt's PM stepped down. All the cheering and excitement... "YES! It is OUR country now! We can do what we want!"

But if anyone is taking bets on there being a difference between what people want and what emerges, I'm betting on history.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14026038 - 02/25/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you, that's exactly what I'm saying. Slow evolutionary progress and not the ushering in of the instant Golden Age. And by instant I mean a few hundred thousand years. To think something major would happen in a few dozen boggles the mind and the credulity.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14026645 - 02/25/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Slow evolutionary progress




Although i agree that there are many high expectations based off wishful thinking in the minds of men, from a more general viewpoint, concerning your statement that evolutionary progress is "slow", i tend to lean towards the idea that evolution is exponential in nature.


Quote:

If you accept the notion of evolution, you will agree that the earliest life appeared on earth approximately 4 billion years ago. Complex cellular organisms showed up 2 billion years ago, and the first multicellular organism about 1 billion years ago. The first reptiles and dinosaurs made their appearance 300 million years ago; the first primates 40 million years ago; homo sapiens appeared 160,000 years ago; Cro-Magnon man 40,000 years ago; and modern civilization as we know it began about 10,000 years ago.
Thinking about this much progress over such an extended period of time is difficult. Years ago, Carl Sagan, the famed astronomer, offered up a β€œcosmic calendar” to make such progress more comprehensible to the layperson. He asked that they imagine the entire history of the universe as being compressed into a single year. (cont.)
Under this scenario the year would begin on January 1 with a bang – the Big Bang. Nothing much would then happen in our corner of the universe until about August when the sun would make its appearance. The earth itself wouldn’t show signs of any life until Novemberβ€”when the first multicellular organisms begin wiggling about. Dinosaurs show up around Christmas Eve. At 10:15 AM on December 31, apes would appear; humans would begin walking upright at 9:24 PM; modern civilization would appear at 11:59:20; Rome would fall at 11:59:57; and the Renaissance would occur just one second before midnight.
Rather amazingly, everything else – the printing press, the steam engine, electricity, the computer, the Internet, the human genome project, stem cell research, nanotechnology, etc – would be squeezed into the last second. From this perspective, I would argue that evolution can thus be seen as yet another exponential trend.




Thus, any prediction about the ushering of a "golden age" is ridiculous.
Be it one that proposes it happening in a few hundred thousand  or just two years.
It's very unpredictable  but fortunately it depends on us, not some external force.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14027095 - 02/25/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Oh right, I temporarily forgot how "misunderstood" Icelander is around here. :lol:

Kickle, the problem with our generation's revolution is that people will talk, but they don't stand by their words like they mean them.  Here, I am not talking about "standing by" as physical action.

Revolution is an idea. It starts out as idea, and remains an ideal in all of its possible proportions.

So what I am saying that you must seriously consider dialectic, as its manifest act of revolution. You or anyone else is not going to be able to just "convince" everybody. This doesn't mean that you will have to stomp over them with boots, but that you speak with substance.

Of all things, don't just diffuse the dialogue here. If you disagree with me, then by all means, please meet my thesis with a proper antithesis. Do you not understand that when you merely diffuse the situation, this is at stake of the said substance of my words? Do you not understand that it is far worse for criticisms to be brushed off, than to meet with their proper antithesis? 

Think about it. Meanwhile, can you tell me that I am wrongthat Icelander has up to this point wielded history and psychology as theoretical constants, and as definitions of man?


--------------------
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  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23] * 4
    #14027111 - 02/25/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Also your space hats are confusing, :lol: I thought I was talking to cosmo there.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #14027223 - 02/25/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

they will talk, but they don't stand by their words

That is imo because very few are motivated by the stated goal. As I said they are after power, not fair play. They want to wrest power from the old school and wield it themselves. And many of them are not really great people with altruistic motives. This is why the new boss is the same as the old boss almost every time.

Now of course this doesn't apply to everyone who wants change.  Just, imo, most.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23] * 1
    #14028120 - 02/25/11 10:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Also your space hats are confusing, :lol: I thought I was talking to cosmo there.




We are the borg. Change your avatar. Resistance is futile.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #14028165 - 02/25/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Oh right, I temporarily forgot how "misunderstood" Icelander is around here. :lol:

Kickle, the problem with our generation's revolution is that people will talk, but they don't stand by their words like they mean them.  Here, I am not talking about "standing by" as physical action.

Revolution is an idea. It starts out as idea, and remains an ideal in all of its possible proportions.

So what I am saying that you must seriously consider dialectic, as its manifest act of revolution. You or anyone else is not going to be able to just "convince" everybody. This doesn't mean that you will have to stomp over them with boots, but that you speak with substance.

Of all things, don't just diffuse the dialogue here. If you disagree with me, then by all means, please meet my thesis with a proper antithesis. Do you not understand that when you merely diffuse the situation, this is at stake of the said substance of my words? Do you not understand that it is far worse for criticisms to be brushed off, than to meet with their proper antithesis? 

Think about it. Meanwhile, can you tell me that I am wrongthat Icelander has up to this point wielded history and psychology as theoretical constants, and as definitions of man?




What makes a proper antithesis? Isn't that a one sided decision? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, merely weighing in. To be honest, with the exception of the reason I proposed of misunderstanding, I don't see anything in the posts of this thread that refutes Icelander's points. And that's why I posted that I thought it was a misunderstanding.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14028971 - 02/26/11 05:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I saw one thing. But as you I wont convince anyone of anything, just striving to form a personal pov. Either way, have fun.. lol


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14030009 - 02/26/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Oh right, I temporarily forgot how "misunderstood" Icelander is around here. :lol:

Kickle, the problem with our generation's revolution is that people will talk, but they don't stand by their words like they mean them.  Here, I am not talking about "standing by" as physical action.

Revolution is an idea. It starts out as idea, and remains an ideal in all of its possible proportions.

So what I am saying that you must seriously consider dialectic, as its manifest act of revolution. You or anyone else is not going to be able to just "convince" everybody. This doesn't mean that you will have to stomp over them with boots, but that you speak with substance.

Of all things, don't just diffuse the dialogue here. If you disagree with me, then by all means, please meet my thesis with a proper antithesis. Do you not understand that when you merely diffuse the situation, this is at stake of the said substance of my words? Do you not understand that it is far worse for criticisms to be brushed off, than to meet with their proper antithesis? 

Think about it. Meanwhile, can you tell me that I am wrongthat Icelander has up to this point wielded history and psychology as theoretical constants, and as definitions of man?




What makes a proper antithesis? Isn't that a one sided decision? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, merely weighing in. To be honest, with the exception of the reason I proposed of misunderstanding, I don't see anything in the posts of this thread that refutes Icelander's points. And that's why I posted that I thought it was a misunderstanding.




I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

If we are going to relate these times to another point in history, what point is equivalent?

As well as an appeal to authority.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Here's Diploid in another thread.

Like him, I used to think that technology, especially the internet, would bring the world together. What has actually happened is that it has segregated us more than ever.

There are IRC chat rooms for drug users. Non-drug users never go there. Other chats for Muslims. Other religions never go there. Web sites written in Spanish and other in Chinese. English speakers never go there. More and more people interact only with like minded people on-line and less and less go out into the real world to interact with a cross section of society.

The list goes on and on.

Couple that with entire countries that use that very same potentiating technology to isolate themselves. In China, any search that might tend to break down barriers between them and others is censored. And the Chinese are such sheeple that they don't seem to mind being told what to think by their government.

Despite mirror neurons, humans are doomed, IMO. We will never get along and that video is wishful thinking and nothing more.





How has this divided us? This is what lets these people being supressed and killed by an evil leader to get thier story's out. Before it would have been hear say, now there is proof for the whole world to see. Everything is being flushed out into the open, and it is nearly impossible to prevent. Take Wikileaks for example.


Regardless of the topics of an IRC chat room, people always have hung out with thier kind anyway.



Edited by teknix (02/26/11 11:56 AM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030096 - 02/26/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)


I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

If we are going to relate these times to another point in history, what point is equivalent?

As well as an appeal to authority.


I think more importantly than finding a point in history where so many people have revolted is  to recognize that people have revolted before. And the same cycle always happens. New leadership emerges, there is an afterglow period, but eventually it always cycles back to a new revolt needing to happen. That's why all the revolts of old have led to this point... 

Icelander already agreed that as population increases we should notice the amount of people revolting increase. :shrug:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030102 - 02/26/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have yet to hear the history buff name a point in history where so many people, all over the world, have revolted in such a short time span.

Did you check out the link I put up on revolutions in the last 100+ years?  So many people revolt now because the world population is huge now compared to the past.


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030184 - 02/26/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That isn't equivalent to a complete change of government.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030270 - 02/26/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's totally exciting. I'd rather be alive during the afterglow than alive during the decline. Unfortunately I think the whole cycle is speeding up. So I may be alive during both :undecided:


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030294 - 02/26/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
That isn't equivalent to a complete change of government.





Are you talking about the French Revolution?:wink:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030366 - 02/26/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030428 - 02/26/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:

And I actually took a gander at the govt changes.

Dec 2002 - The two concepts, β€œgovernment” and β€œregime” also need to be distinguished. On 0th December 2002, there was indeed a change of government in Kenya from KANU to NARC, with substantial changes in the people who run the country politically. A new president was elected and he proceeded to form a new government. But the regime continued.


Just because a govt changes does not mean it gets better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14030461 - 02/26/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That's exactly what egypt is bitching about now ^.^


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14030946 - 02/26/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And that will continue all over the world.  The sad fact is that those willing to take power and hold it by any means are almost always the ones likely to succeed except maybe in the short run from time to time. 

Please don't get me wrong, I think it would be wonderful if you were correct. I just don't think there's a chance in hell for the reasons I stated.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031063 - 02/26/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I must have missed something.

No chance in hell for what?

:lol:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031159 - 02/26/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A great new world to come out of all this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/26/11 04:15 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031284 - 02/26/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You don't think these events are changing anything for these people in a positive manner?

How does what you think matter to them?

They are dying for this, so from thier perspective this is a pretty big deal and time of great change.

From my perspective, it is testiment to the human will, and the power of that will, made manifest.

Quote:

Icelander said:
A great new world to come out of all this.




I don't see anywhere in the thread anyone says that.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031413 - 02/26/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah it's a good temp change most likely. Then things will get back to usual most likely.

How does what anyone thinks matter to anyone else?

And were was this human will all the other years that they didn't revolt?

We are all comming to realize that it is up to us to make the change. We don't want to fight, we don't want wars. We only want freedom. Humanity is crying out against the forces that assume to tell us how it is.

It is for us to decide how it is, and how it will be.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.


Unite all of humanity? Sounds like you were predicting a brave new world. This certainly sounds like pie in the sky to me.

No I think I was correct here.


Edited by Icelander (02/26/11 05:06 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031594 - 02/26/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That isn't saying that these events are going to cause that.

Only action can and will cause that.

That is what I'm saying.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031631 - 02/26/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No that's not really what you said.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days.

This is a statement of fact.



And frankly humanity is a very big place.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031654 - 02/26/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Then let's get off our ass and make a difference ^.^

Again, that is what is required.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031669 - 02/26/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Who's us? I've been meaning to ask you. What exactly are you doing to make this difference? Besides talking about all this.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031710 - 02/26/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Writing out a plan for true democracy as well as working on a solar windmill design, and educating myself. You?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031716 - 02/26/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.


Unite all of humanity? :curbyourenthusiasm:


What makes you think there will ever be even a tiny glimmer of hope for that happening?



Quote:

teknix said:
Writing out a plan for true democracy...


You're wasting your time. :stoned:


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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Poid]
    #14031740 - 02/26/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.

Why don't you think it's possible?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031775 - 02/26/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Writing out a plan for true democracy as well as working on a solar windmill design, and educating myself. You?





That's it? Nothing out it the streets?

I'm planing on a revolution that puts me in charge so I can fix everything.  Or I'll write out the plan for it.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031799 - 02/26/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.


Humanity has never been united, and everything is bound to perish--were you trying to say something of value, what was your point? :confused2:


Quote:

teknix said:
Why don't you think it's possible?


Because humans are nothing but ruthless animals, all they want is to have their needs met and their desires achieved; many people have conflicting needs/desires, and since people care more about meeting their own needs than the needs of others, there will always be conflict. :mob:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031808 - 02/26/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.

Why don't you think it's possible?




There is no evidence that we will all perish.  The human race has been through world wars and plagues and all sorts of nasty shit for centuries and we are now the full on controlling animal on the planet.  In our crazy violent state we could go on indefinitely as far as you know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031895 - 02/26/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.


Humanity has never been united, and everything is bound to perish--were you trying to say something of value, what was your point? :confused2:


Quote:

teknix said:
Why don't you think it's possible?


Because humans are nothing but ruthless animals, all they want is to have their needs met and their desires achieved; many people have conflicting needs/desires, and since people care more about meeting their own needs than the needs of others, there will always be conflict. :mob:




America is united of with all people from every part of the world. Sure it isn't perfect but it leaves room for improvement. More and more country's are fallowing our lead. They all want a part of it. The entire world can very easily be a melting pot.

Our human needs are the same? :mob: Whats your point?

Conflict is not disproof to unity.


Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.

Why don't you think it's possible?




There is no evidence that we will all perish.  The human race has been through world wars and plagues and all sorts of nasty shit for centuries and we are now the full on controlling animal on the planet.  In our crazy violent state we could go on indefinitely as far as you know.




I'm pretty sure we all perish.

:matrix2:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031939 - 02/26/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You're pretty sure with no solid evidence?

You're pretty sure of a lot of things with little or no evidence imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14031949 - 02/26/11 06:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, 99% of my ancestors have perished, so . . .


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031955 - 02/26/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

America is united of with all people from every part of the world. Sure it isn't perfect but it leaves room for improvement. More and more country's are fallowing our lead. They all want a part of it. The entire world can very easily be a melting pot.

Our human needs are the same?  Whats your point?

Conflict is not disproof to unity.


Of course conflict is disproof of unity.:lol:

America is not united with people from all parts of the world.  Where do you come up with this stuff? 

What the rest of the world wants a part of is the rampant materialism of America. I saw that first hand in the other countries I've been to.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14031967 - 02/26/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Well, 99% of my ancestors have perished, so . . .





That is the silliest thing you've said yet. Of course everyone dies. That has squat to do with this discussion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14032070 - 02/26/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



It is pretty obvious that eventually we won't have enough room or resources to support all of these people.

The weakest country's would die off 1st and be taken over and or absorbed by the bigger empires as has been happening throughout history.



"... if fertility levels remain unchanged at today's levels, world population would rise to 244 billion persons in 2150 and 134 trillion in 2300, clearly indicating that current levels of high fertility cannot continue indefinitely." Population Coalition, 2005

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=12

Eventually there will only be room for one flag.

It is common sense that the strongest empire to emerge victorious and claim the resources necessary for its own well being. There will not be much of a choice but to fight for them if divided.

http://www.oildecline.com/

"With great effort and expenditure, the current level of oil production can possibly be maintained for a few more years, but beyond that oil production must begin a permanent & irreversible decline"

The United Nations is symbolic of a united earth already.

"Three countries out of the 195 countries of the world are not members of the United Nations."

http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/nun.htm

Like it or not, we are becoming more and more united as humanity every day.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14032077 - 02/26/11 06:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.

Why don't you think it's possible?




There is no evidence that we will all perish.  The human race has been through world wars and plagues and all sorts of nasty shit for centuries and we are now the full on controlling animal on the planet.  In our crazy violent state we could go on indefinitely as far as you know.




Yes there is. All of those people have perished.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14032092 - 02/26/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Even if there was massive starvation, and disease and war which has all happened in the past there is no evidence that humanity would completely disappear. That would be extremely unlikely.

They have been predicting this one world order for a long time. And just because we might sometime all be under one flag that does not mean in the slightest that humanity will be united.  Take the good ol USA for example. We are a very un united country.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14032099 - 02/26/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Either that or we all perish, I don't see any other option.

Why don't you think it's possible?




There is no evidence that we will all perish.  The human race has been through world wars and plagues and all sorts of nasty shit for centuries and we are now the full on controlling animal on the planet.  In our crazy violent state we could go on indefinitely as far as you know.




Yes there is. All of those people have perished.





Again you are being completely silly. Everyone dies from something even if the world is united and there are more people alive than at any time in human history.  It's very hard to have a discussion when you insist on being irrational.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14032120 - 02/26/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The kalua is kicking in, lets try again tommorrow.
:crazy:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14032143 - 02/26/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think it depends how far ahead you look, the further you go, the less likely it seems to me that there is any division.

I can't see how it wouldn't happen.

:shrug:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14032186 - 02/26/11 07:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
The kalua is kicking in, lets try again tommorrow.
:crazy:





I really don't see any point.:shrug:

I've made my case and I didn't make it for you. I made it so others who are not invested can weigh the evidence and the facts presented and make up their minds.

Enjoy your alcohol.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14032291 - 02/26/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'll leave you with this to ponder.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/02/20/toronto-libya-protest.html?ref=rss

About 350 people gathered in Toronto's Yonge-Dundas Square on Sunday to rally in support of anti-government protesters in Libya and call for the ouster of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.

Chanting "The world must know, Gadhafi has to go," the crowd carried signs and expressed outrage at the ruling regime's crackdown on protesters this weekend.

At least 200 people have died over the last seven days in clashes with Libyan forces.

Many who gathered in Toronto said they are struggling to stay informed about events in Libya, since a media crackdown has restricted the flow of information out of the country.

"We're talking to [our families], making sure they're safe," protest organizer Amal Abuzgaya told CBC News. "They've become the local media. Everybody's taping with their phones, uploading on Facebook, uploading on Twitter, on YouTube, so it can get out. People are doing what they can, they're giving blood, they're cleaning up the streets."

Abuzgaya, who was born in Canada, but whose extended family remains in Libya, said she's certain extensive bloodshed continues in that country..

"We really need to put pressure on the Parliament, on the United Nations, and on the Canadian government, to condemn what Gadaffi is doing there," Abuzgaya said. "We want them to come out and say that what Gadhafi is doing is unacceptable."

She added that despite the protesters' deaths, people in Libya are determined to push for regime change.

"We're fearful for our family and for our people," said Abuzgaya. "The people we're talking to there say 'they're killing us, but that's not going to stop us.'"

Mohammad Talib, who also attended the Toronto rally, said he believed change in Libya would come quickly, supported by the push for democratic reform that has spread across the Middle East in recent weeks.

"I've been waiting for this moment to be here since I was 12. My natural instincts have never accepted that regime. This is an exhilarating moment in time for all nations."

The rally remained peaceful, with traffic along Dundas West and Yonge Street honking frequently to show their support.

The rally comes eight days after Egyptians gathered in the same square to celebrate the departure of longtime leader Hosni Mubarak.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Video+Libya+Rally/4353723/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

"CHARLESTON -- As armed gangs of Moammar Qaddafi’s supporters terrorize Libya’s capital city, around a hundred people gathered at the state capitol building in Charleston to show support for the embattled citizens of Libya.
Holding signs and chanting β€œfree free Libya” and β€œ1234 show Qaddafi to the door” protesters expressed both their concern for the people and their hope for a future without Qaddafi.

β€œWe are here to protest the massacres and the killing of the Libyan people; we are here to support the just cause of freedom for the Libyan people.” Said Charleston resident Dr. Hazem Ashhab.

Adan Nahla who is from Libya is looking forward to a new government for his home country, one that will open Libya up to the rest of the world. β€œBecause I know the Libyan people ,I lived there born and raised, Libya will be completely different from which everybody knows, Libyan people are warm and are looking for a bright future and Qaddafi, is stopping them from that.”

According to CBS News, rebels now control a large segment of Libya’s coast, where half the population lives. The United States has frozen Libyan assets and called for Qaddafi to step down immediately. "

http://wowktv.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=95006

I'm sure there is more. The world wants to help these people. We are becomming united and feeling eachothers pain, and supporting one another like never before.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14032358 - 02/26/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Every time this happens the world "want's to help". And a few hundred may actually do something.  Usually the so called united nations sit on their hands while people get slaughtered in mass. 

I thought you were too drunk to discuss this or is it just too drunk to respond to my questions?


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14034641 - 02/27/11 07:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I responded to you.

You keep switching your argument.

The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

The imperative natural forces have always lead to larger and larger human aggregates leads to an inevitable human unification.

"We know that egoism is the biggest obstacle to a life of harmony and peace on earth, but after so many centuries of civilisation no amount of religious preaching or moral teaching has been able to convince the ego to forego its claims, as to speak to him of fraternity is to speak to him of something fundamentally contrary to his nature."

http://www.auroville.org/vision/towardshumanunityi.htm

"Today the ideal of human unity is more or less vaguely making its way to the front of our consciousness. The emergence of an ideal in human thought is always the sign of an intention in Nature, but not always of an intention to accomplish; sometimes it indicates only an attempt which is predestined to temporary failure. For Nature is slow and patient in her methods. She takes up ideas and half carries them out, then drops them by the wayside to resume them in some future era with a better combination. She tempts humanity, her thinking instrument, and tests how far it is ready for the harmony she has imagined; she allows and incites man to attempt and fail, so that he may learn and succeed better another time. Still the ideal, having once made its way to the front of thought, must certainly be attempted, and this ideal of human unity is likely to figure largely among the determining forces of the future; for the intellectual and material circumstances of the age have prepared and almost impose it, especially the scientific discoveries which have made our earth so small that its vastest kingdoms seem now no more than the provinces of a single country."

http://www.mirapuri-enterprises.com/Mirapuri-Verlag/English/IdealUnity.htm


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14034940 - 02/27/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035017 - 02/27/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

Can you please evaluate these statements.  How is moral progress "inevitable" and how is something that hasn't happened yet a testament to anything?  Along with your other statements of proof, this does not prove anything.


The imperative natural forces have always lead to larger and larger human aggregates leads to an inevitable human unification.


This is so not true imo.  When I was a kid everyone in my neighborhood knew and talked to everyone else and that was normal. Now it's almost unheard of.  Humans are more divided than ever. Again I will direct you to the political forum and remind you this is the Shroomery.

She tempts humanity, her thinking instrument, and tests how far it is ready for the harmony she has imagined;

There is not now and has never been real evidence that nature is aware and has an intent for harmony.  This is pure wishful thinking on your and the authors part. In fact by calling nature a she it's pretty obvious that the intent is to make nature a reflection of the human subjective thought process.  It doesn't work that way at all imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/27/11 10:13 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14035089 - 02/27/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Well I direct you to debate forums, if you want to debate something.

Nice edit!

Here is what this comment was in response to btw.

Quote:

Icelander said:
The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

Can you please evaluate these statements.  How is moral progress "inevitable" and how is something that hasn't happened yet a testament to anything?  Along with your other statements of proof, this does not prove anything.


The imperative natural forces have always lead to larger and larger human aggregates leads to an inevitable human unification.


This is so not true imo.  When I was a kid everyone in my neighborhood knew and talked to everyone else and that was normal. Now it's almost unheard of. Humans are more divided than ever. Again I will direct you to the political forum and remind you this is the Shroomery.

She tempts humanity, her thinking instrument, and tests how far it is ready for the harmony she has imagined;

There is not now and has never been real evidence that nature is aware and has an intent for harmony.  This is pure wishful thinking on your and the authors part. In fact by calling nature a she it's pretty obvious that the intent is to make nature a reflection of the human subjective thought process.  It doesn't work that way at all imo.








This is from an article, and I think it is a very good anology in relation to the nature of things as shown through history.

There is an equillibrium that has been heavily offset in recent times.


Edited by teknix (02/27/11 10:40 AM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035124 - 02/27/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:satansmoking:  Carry on.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035162 - 02/27/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

oops.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035171 - 02/27/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah you most definitely bested me and proved your point.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14035206 - 02/27/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am not trying to best you, I'm just giving my perspective.

In turn I get to see the defiance of the ego made manifest and how the perspective is achieved and rationalized.

Mutualism.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035237 - 02/27/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
oops.





Then what is this comment about?  I encourage you to be honest about your motives.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14035254 - 02/27/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I reposted the edited version of the copied quote instead of editing the original.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14035316 - 02/27/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Never mind, I've stated my position and the readers can make up their own minds. I'm on to the next thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14035327 - 02/27/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I think everyone is riled up because they think Icelander is denying change. IMO he is not denying change. He is denying that this is some sort of special change, something outside of the typical cycling of existence that has been happening throughout human history.

The rising and falling we experience really is nothing new. But that isn't to say it isn't exciting. I really enjoyed some of the interviews that came out after Egypt's PM stepped down. All the cheering and excitement... "YES! It is OUR country now! We can do what we want!"

But if anyone is taking bets on there being a difference between what people want and what emerges, I'm betting on history.




What does history say is going to happen?


Quote:

Icelander said:
The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

Can you please evaluate these statements.  How is moral progress "inevitable" and how is something that hasn't happened yet a testament to anything?  Along with your other statements of proof, this does not prove anything.







"If we were to reinterpret What is Enlightenment? in this light, and hence inevitably extend its meaning, we would again have to relativize thoroughly the theoretical status of its historico-philosophical passages. The emergence of enlightenment in countless manifestations, such as the publication of Kant's text, could then be regarded as a historical sign involving a moral progress that indicates the inevitable continuation of the enlightenment process, whatever attempts were made to prevent it. Of course, the historico-philosophical passages in Kant's Enlightenment essay do not fit with this viewpoint (or not yet, at any rate), but even so it is striking that they permit such an interpretation. This is most evident when we look at the arguments with which Kant substantiates the inevitability of the enlightenment process. As historico-philosophical arguments, they sound rather odd, to say the least, because all but one are formulated normatively, expressing not what will be, but what should or should not be the case. To the question of whether a number of treacherous guardians could halt the enlightenment process, Kant successively answers that such a thing "is impossible," (61) "is contrary to human nature," (62) "is illegitimate," (63) and "is an inadmissible infringement of sacred human rights." (64) Although the context of the argumentation is different from that in The Conflict of the Faculties, we recognize two major components of the argument presented there: firstly, the conviction that the coming about of enlightenment represents moral progress, and secondly, that this progress will continue, because it should, regardless of any steps that are taken against it. Here too, the historico-philosophical perspective on the enlightenment process thus seems to be informed and carried by a moral position rather than by any presumed theoretical knowledge about the course of history necessitated by the nature of things. Although it should be added right away that the terminology used by Kant, here and elsewhere, often suggests the reverse. To conclude from all this that What is Enlightenment? already contains the subtle philosophy of history of The Conflict of the Faculties in an implicit form would of course be naive. However, this is no reason to commit another form of naivety and take Kant's historico-philosophical remarks unequivocally in a theoretical sense. The foregoing makes it sufficiently clear that a primarily normative interpretation of these remarks can be related to other pronouncements by Kant on the matter, and above all eliminates a number of striking ambiguities from the Enlightenment essay. Such an interpretation shows that these historico-philosophical passages primarily depict a normative ideal, as a result of which a powerful tension is generated in the text between "what should be" and "what is," and not between "what is" and "what will be.""

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3545/is_2_62/ai_n31199001/pg_10/


Also history shows us making progress. Things like the Geneva Convention compared to tortue being common place in history.

Slavery becomming unnacceptable for another instance. You just have to look around to see the beauty of it.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14036495 - 02/27/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What does history say is going to happen?





From the looks of it to me, the continuation of a spiral. Every so often we loop around to nearly exactly where we were before. It isn't a circle though because the specifics change. But revolutions have happened before, and history says they will happen again. And that suggests to me that no matter what system we put in place, it will eventually crumble under its inability to satisfy the emotional needs of humanity. And IMO history shows that no system, no matter how perfect on paper, can actually accomplish this satisfaction.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14036505 - 02/27/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:

Not to mention the innate corruption of humans who seek power. Which btw is basically all of us. It's just a matter of degree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14036916 - 02/27/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

no matter what system we put in place, it will eventually crumble under its inability to satisfy the emotional needs of humanity.




It should at least be able to satisfy the basic survival needs.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: jivJaN]
    #14038110 - 02/27/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think it's likely. If your emotional needs aren't fulfilled, you're going to seek a way to get them filled. And that's an unfair system in a lot of ways, naturally. Some people are simply better at achieving the temporary pleasures of life than others. And usually they are the aggressive ones who aren't afraid to yank it right out of your hands if they have to.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Kickle]
    #14040563 - 02/28/11 07:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well let me ask a question. Do you see an overall improvement in the morality of humanity in its entirety during these times than in the past times?

Have we not made great headway from the state of affairs throughout history and improved upon what is acceptable?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14040746 - 02/28/11 08:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No way, however we are much better at pretending.  Hey whens Obama going to close that torture prison like he promised?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14040763 - 02/28/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No way, however we are much better at pretending.  Hey whens Obama going to close that torture prison like he promised?




This isn't convincing in comparison to earlier history.

How about something that proves why you say "No way"


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14040823 - 02/28/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, looking through this thread, I don't see any evidence of anything you have said up to this point. Other than a failed link that once refined proved my point.

Your thoughts and idea's are not proof to the contrary.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14040883 - 02/28/11 09:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey whens Obama going to close that torture prison like he promised?

There's a simple example right there. Americans don't torture right? Wrong but we lie about it.  In the same way we find other ways to put people into servitude besides chaining them.  We now have very terrible weapons (like napalm) that can cause intensive suffering to many people that are not directly involved in war and we develop more all the time.  The list goes on.  Again there is no evidence that human primates are emotionally different from our ancestors. But it's very important to us to believe we are and are not savages.  Things are not better or worse imo, just different.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14040951 - 02/28/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And The majority of people know about it and are against it.

You need to understand that these people's only purpose was to dispose of the infidel, by any means necessary.

They blow themselves up killing innocent people.

We do need to find a better way to bring these people to Justice, I agree with you. The very fact that we are trying to sort out a better way is what matters. We see that it isn't proper and morally wrong.

No true opposition other than maybe religious, even existed in earlier history. No one else knew or cared about it really.

The majority of the people were reigned over by the morality of a few.

Here is what it was like in early Rome.

For a man

The world of the antique Romans was divided into two macro-categories: free men and slaves, first Roman citizens and foreigners ("peregrini").
Slaves were everywhere, often prisoners of war and sometimes free citizens that were sold to settle their debts. Slaves were considered goods and could be sold. Without political or judicial rights, they were assigned hard work as well as intellectual duties, depending on their level of instruction. In rare cases, they could be freed by their master.
Every free citizen had three names: the "praenomen" (baptismal name), the "nomen" (family name) and the "cognomen" (last name). they usually dressed simple; a knee-length tunic and a hooded cloak. On special occasions they wore a "toga", a semicircular draped cloak made of wool. Common citizens wore white togas while those of senators and cavalry had togas with a purple border. This last type of toga was also worn by male youths under the age of 17 ("pueri").

http://www.capitolium.org/eng/virtuale/uomini.htm

For a woman

In "familia"
The family consisted of several relatives (wife and husband, children, grandparents, in-laws, nephews and nieces) and slaves united in a "domus", a broadened term for "house". in such a numerous group of people living under one roof, the dominant figure was the "paterfamilias", the oldest male that decided for everyone. From this it is obvious that women held a secondary role since rights were given only to the men. Men had the right to decide the life or death of their children ("ius vitae necisque"), and could also decide to sell them into slavery. Men could also freely divorce their wives.
Women remained under the control of their father until they married ("cum manu"), being passed onto another family.

However, Roman women had more freedom than their Greek counterparts: at least they weren't confined to the house while their husbands were gone.
Under Julius Cesar, women had more freedom and many wives were able to have love-affairs, increasing their personal power. Many of them didn't do housework, but supervised slaves and educated their children since there was no organized school.


http://www.capitolium.org/eng/virtuale/donne.htm

Education is a huge factor as well.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041009 - 02/28/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And The majority of people know about it and are against it.

This here imo is the crux of the matter and where I completely disagree.  The majority of the people want things this way.  If a vast majority of voters in America for instance really didn't like the status quo then they would vote it out in mass and then they would completely revamp the country.

I don't know where you are getting your info but I've lived all around the country from Michigan to California and points in between and most of America is in on the take. Only those who have a hard time competing successfully are whining about the unfairness of it all.  The people are the govt and when they get tired of a corrupt Bush they bring in a Corrupt Obama so they can pretend they are working on "freedom" for all while actually it's business as usual. What a sick joke. It's every man for themselves. This is why you find most idealists within the ranks of the very young who are mostly still living off mom and dad. The rest are playing a scaled down version of what the big boys are playing and trying to thrive and survive in a material reality. I've had to alter my perspective when I realized all this. I used to believe basically what you do but not anymore.

The same thing is happening all over the world and is the reason why revolutions have to happen over and over. The oppressed become corrupt and the oppressors once in power. If this isn't obvious to you it should be.  Many current corrupt govts came from past revolutions with high ideals.  Again this is basically because HUMANS HAVE NOT EVOLVED EMOTIONALLY TO ANY GREAT EXTENT SINCE OUR PRIMITIVE ANCESTORS This negates any real movement into a world where we are all taking care of the whole instead of looking out for ourselves. It's not in our nature.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041111 - 02/28/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What would you suggest as a solution to this problem then?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041271 - 02/28/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

IMO there is no solution and ultimately there is no problem. We are all temporary here and not in charge of anything and our travails are of no importance in the vast scheme of things.

But there is a personal solution of sorts. Try to have as much fun and enjoyment in life in any way that really works for you no matter what that is and no matter what others tell you you should be doing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041380 - 02/28/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Everything we do is part of a chain of events that is cause and effect. Some effects last longer and have a greater impact on humanity than others, but due to this very nature, it seems impossible for me to see everything remaining unchanged.

People do take heed to issues of morality, and are able to voice thier concerns. Sometimes even changing things for the future and even how reality is generally percieved.

Your argument is only an argument of all the wrongs, and mistakes. Each one of these issue have been taken into serious consideration in the consciousness of humanity to improve overall morality.

It is obvious that these events have been improving the general concensus of right and wrong throughout history.

Just like the stereotype that you presented regarding kids staying with thier parents longer. What is truly wrong with family's living together?
Sharing expenses can make life easier on everyone, with the more people involved.


Edited by teknix (02/28/11 11:52 AM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041434 - 02/28/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Actions speak much louder than words. The world is in a chaotic state and America is running scared along with the rest of the world as population grows and resources dwindle, trying to grab the most they can for themselves before it's gone and will do whatever it takes to get it.  If you really understood politics that would be obvious.  Everyone is a politician.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041455 - 02/28/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just like the stereotype that you presented regarding kids staying with thier parents longer. What is truly wrong with family's living together?

Nothing is wrong with an extended family but you took that out of context of a different discussion.  If the family was extended the kids wouldn't leave but stay, living within the household for their whole life and not being a financial burden on the parents.  Who do you think you're fooling?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041479 - 02/28/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Where is your proof of this?

Regardless if you have any or not, it could just as very well say that people are more compassionate to allow this.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041517 - 02/28/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What a minute. Wasn't it you here telling me this is not a debate forum when I asked for evidence?


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041570 - 02/28/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Regardless.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041589 - 02/28/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:  That's so like you.  Look if you refuse to back your claims here when requested I don't feel the need.  If you want bring this thread over to the philosophy  forum and I'll be glad to tear it to shreads as a full on debate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix] * 1
    #14041623 - 02/28/11 12:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Where is your proof of this?

Regardless if you have any or not, it could just as very well say that people are more compassionate to allow this.




^^

Nice cock out.

:ranchydance:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041637 - 02/28/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

More passive agressive from you.  If you want to play this type of game lets do it in PM where it belongs.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041663 - 02/28/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I CALL BS!


Quote:

Icelander said:
Just like the stereotype that you presented regarding kids staying with thier parents longer. What is truly wrong with family's living together?

Nothing is wrong with an extended family but you took that out of context of a different discussion.  If the family was extended the kids wouldn't leave but stay, living within the household for their whole life and not being a financial burden on the parents.  Who do you think you're fooling?





Quote:

teknix said:
Where is your proof of this?

Regardless if you have any or not, it could just as very well say that people are more compassionate to allow this.




Dodge more.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041773 - 02/28/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol: I have no idea what you're trying to say.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041793 - 02/28/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's because your lens is so dark that it blocks the light.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041820 - 02/28/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Instead of saying that why don't you say exactly what you meant by that post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041833 - 02/28/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's hard to shine light through a brick wall.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041844 - 02/28/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Instead of saying that why don't you say exactly what you meant by your post?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14041870 - 02/28/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your preconcieved notions are preventing any optimism from your mind.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041942 - 02/28/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How do you know that?  Maybe I'm just being realistic based on study and personal experience?  Maybe you need to believe everything is going to be ok to relieve your unconscious anxieties even if there is little evidence for your beliefs?

And I posted something very optimistic which you ignored or were unable to comprehend.  I said in the larger scheme of things none of this is very important and personally one can find a measure of fun and fulfillment by following their own personal beliefs on what they should be doing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14041985 - 02/28/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can see through the lens of pessimism as well as that of optimism.

Optimism seems to have more beneficial properties in regards to humanity and humanities will in its entirety.

Pessimism = Can't

Optimism = Can

Which do you think will have a greater effect?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042004 - 02/28/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you see everything as can't there is an impossibility of change.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042015 - 02/28/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Two cows are having a discussion and one says

>> Hey, did you know that the lion is the fucking king of all animals ?

the other one replies

>> Really ? hmmm.. how much milk does he produce ?


:bigjoint:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042040 - 02/28/11 01:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Optimism  or pessimism were not what we were discussing but rather what is actually happening with humanity.

Lets stick to the topic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/28/11 01:24 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042064 - 02/28/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I believe we were right here.




Quote:

teknix said:
I CALL BS!


Quote:

Icelander said:
Just like the stereotype that you presented regarding kids staying with thier parents longer. What is truly wrong with family's living together?

Nothing is wrong with an extended family but you took that out of context of a different discussion.  If the family was extended the kids wouldn't leave but stay, living within the household for their whole life and not being a financial burden on the parents.  Who do you think you're fooling?





Quote:

teknix said:
Where is your proof of this?

Regardless if you have any or not, it could just as very well say that people are more compassionate to allow this.




Dodge more.




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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042076 - 02/28/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

no we were here.


This is the theme spreading like wild fire all across the world. We are all comming to realize that it is up to us to make the change. We don't want to fight, we don't want wars. We only want freedom. Humanity is crying out against the forces that assume to tell us how it is.

It is for us to decide how it is, and how it will be.

No longer will humanity stand idly by and hope for better days. Now is the time for action, a revolution, to unite all of humanity.

As these lines of division begin to blur, and merge into a larger picture, falling into place from its utter dissemination. It will be up to everyone of us to make the changes necessary to become a part of the voice of all humanity.

The voice of humanity is speaking.

Language was once a formidable barrier, this is not so today. We have at our fingertips the ability to comprehend all that is said by all people. Love, peace, freedom, harmony. This is the global consensus. This is what the majority of humanity wants.

The voice of humanity will not be defied by a few men.

We need to start from scratch, as the foundation that exists is built upon corruption, division, hate and lies.

We need to begin with the fuel that powers this corruption, which in itself is corrupt.

Oil.


And btw you never did really explain exactly what those two posts had to do with each other.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14042088 - 02/28/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that was the cause.

The effect has extended to here.

Quote:

teknix said:
Yeah, I believe we were right here.




Quote:

teknix said:
I CALL BS!


Quote:

Icelander said:
Just like the stereotype that you presented regarding kids staying with thier parents longer. What is truly wrong with family's living together?

Nothing is wrong with an extended family but you took that out of context of a different discussion.  If the family was extended the kids wouldn't leave but stay, living within the household for their whole life and not being a financial burden on the parents.  Who do you think you're fooling?





Quote:

teknix said:
Where is your proof of this?

Regardless if you have any or not, it could just as very well say that people are more compassionate to allow this.




Dodge more.







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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14043279 - 02/28/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Well let me ask a question. Do you see an overall improvement in the morality of humanity in its entirety during these times than in the past times?

Have we not made great headway from the state of affairs throughout history and improved upon what is acceptable?




Not really. The playing field has become less localized, but overall the morality remains the same IMO. If we can justify killing, torture, or slavery... we will. We use the cheapest labor we can find for example. Not a big step above slavery, and in fact I'm not sure it is a step up at all. Slaves were fed, and food is basically all the wages a factory worker in many sweat-shop countries will be able to afford. Not much freedom really, they just don't have the title of property. But are they really anything but a slave? Do they have a choice I'm missing? I suppose they could always go the way of many African countries and not have any resources we want to buy. That seems to work out well in terms of food.

IMO our morality is the same as ever. We trade with those who benefit us. We use the cheapest manual labor we can find. And we give nothing more than we can spare while maintaining a very comfortable lifestyle. We will never give anything that endangers our well-being away because the world is not a place to be trusted... Keep people down where they aren't a threat. That's the goal that I see. Have you ever watched a Clockwork Orange? That movie embodies a lot of this IMO. There are certain forms of aggression that are socially accepted, and some that aren't. If you take away someone's ability to fight back in whatever way they know how, they're going to get stomped on by any number of cruelties in this world.   

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. It doesn't matter what reason you find to go to war, the fact of the matter is that we always do find a reason. Doesn't that say something to you about our drives?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Kickle]
    #14046875 - 03/01/11 03:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

We will always have trouble uniting humanity as long as the southern Baptists exist. I've been raised through that church, my family all goes to a Baptist church. They spread hate on all other religions and refuse to listen to reason.

While we may fight our leaders, the people who refuse to end their hate against people different than them will always hold us down it seems.


--------------------
Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Joolz]
    #14046992 - 03/01/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"I feel the same. Any religion, group or other that promotes discontent, dislike, hatred and put's down another is only adding to fear-mongers,creating more hate, anger and disruption for those who areο»Ώ striving for a more harmonious co-existence."

Which will be achieved regardless of those rationale.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Joolz]
    #14047541 - 03/01/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Joolz said:
We will always have trouble uniting humanity as long as the southern Baptists exist. I've been raised through that church, my family all goes to a Baptist church. They spread hate on all other religions and refuse to listen to reason.

While we may fight our leaders, the people who refuse to end their hate against people different than them will always hold us down it seems.





I was raised same.  But that mind set is all over the country and I see it among the non religious too.  Humanity will remain basically in this state for the next few hundred thousand years at least.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14047682 - 03/01/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That is a long time period. What proof do you have to support this claim? :sherlock:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: ivander]
    #14048047 - 03/01/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
That is a long time period. What proof do you have to support this claim? :sherlock:





The same proofs teknix has for this claim.

"I feel the same. Any religion, group or other that promotes discontent, dislike, hatred and put's down another is only adding to fear-mongers,creating more hate, anger and disruption for those who areο»Ώ striving for a more harmonious co-existence."

Which will be achieved regardless of those rationale.


According to him proofs are not required for definitive statements in this forum.  So now I'm playing by those rules. If you want my proofs I'll have them for you in the philosophy forum.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14048062 - 03/01/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Mine is stated as an opinion, yours is stated as a fact, big diff.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14048175 - 03/01/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I meant mine as opinion.  same same

And as a matter of fact in other threads you refused to give proofs stating this is not a debate forum and in the next few posts demanded proof from me. :shrug:

This is not a debate forum.

However since you asked and we're on the subject evolution is the evidence and the fact that human nature has not made any dramatic change in our known history.  I was being generous imo by saying only a few hundred thousand years. More likely it would take millions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (03/01/11 12:14 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14048251 - 03/01/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A lot of this thread is me elaborating on your questions and presenting proof, however when the burden is shifted to you, all I see is you shifting the focus.

Are you referring to the post that you made a snide remark and tried to edit it away after I had already responed? Then once busted put it back?

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Well I direct you to debate forums, if you want to debate something.

Nice edit!

Here is what this comment was in response to btw.

Quote:

Icelander said:
The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

Can you please evaluate these statements.  How is moral progress "inevitable" and how is something that hasn't happened yet a testament to anything?  Along with your other statements of proof, this does not prove anything.


The imperative natural forces have always lead to larger and larger human aggregates leads to an inevitable human unification.


This is so not true imo.  When I was a kid everyone in my neighborhood knew and talked to everyone else and that was normal. Now it's almost unheard of. Humans are more divided than ever. Again I will direct you to the political forum and remind you this is the Shroomery.

She tempts humanity, her thinking instrument, and tests how far it is ready for the harmony she has imagined;

There is not now and has never been real evidence that nature is aware and has an intent for harmony.  This is pure wishful thinking on your and the authors part. In fact by calling nature a she it's pretty obvious that the intent is to make nature a reflection of the human subjective thought process.  It doesn't work that way at all imo.








This is from an article, and I think it is a very good anology in relation to the nature of things as shown through history.

There is an equillibrium that has been heavily offset in recent times.




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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14048263 - 03/01/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What is your purpose in posting here anyway?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14048466 - 03/01/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've stated it dozens of times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14048497 - 03/01/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
A lot of this thread is me elaborating on your questions and presenting proof, however when the burden is shifted to you, all I see is you shifting the focus.

Are you referring to the post that you made a snide remark and tried to edit it away after I had already responed? Then once busted put it back?

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Well I direct you to debate forums, if you want to debate something.

Nice edit!

Here is what this comment was in response to btw.

Quote:

Icelander said:
The inevitability of moral progress is testiment to unity that will be achieved.

Can you please evaluate these statements.  How is moral progress "inevitable" and how is something that hasn't happened yet a testament to anything?  Along with your other statements of proof, this does not prove anything.


The imperative natural forces have always lead to larger and larger human aggregates leads to an inevitable human unification.


This is so not true imo.  When I was a kid everyone in my neighborhood knew and talked to everyone else and that was normal. Now it's almost unheard of. Humans are more divided than ever. Again I will direct you to the political forum and remind you this is the Shroomery.

She tempts humanity, her thinking instrument, and tests how far it is ready for the harmony she has imagined;

There is not now and has never been real evidence that nature is aware and has an intent for harmony.  This is pure wishful thinking on your and the authors part. In fact by calling nature a she it's pretty obvious that the intent is to make nature a reflection of the human subjective thought process.  It doesn't work that way at all imo.








This is from an article, and I think it is a very good anology in relation to the nature of things as shown through history.

There is an equillibrium that has been heavily offset in recent times.








I presented evidence.
Like I always say "most humans believe that history begins and ends with their lifetime"
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=are+there+more+revolts+now+than+at+other+times+in+history&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=are+there+more+revolts+now+than+at+other+times+in+history&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivnsb&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=z6ZnTcP1JpK6sQPcwsmmBA&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CFQQ5wIwCg&bav=on.1,or.&fp=d18fa4a7e898769c



and showed the weakness in your evidence and where it actually backed my assertions.


Dec 2002 - The two concepts, β€œgovernment” and β€œregime” also need to be distinguished. On 0th December 2002, there was indeed a change of government in Kenya from KANU to NARC, with substantial changes in the people who run the country politically. A new president was elected and he proceeded to form a new government. But the regime continued.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14048684 - 03/01/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here is your link, brought into perspective.

http://www.google.com/search?q=are+there+more+revolts+now+than+at+other+times+in+history&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivnsb&sa=X&ei=QV1tTdCUD4TogQe7i7mYBA&ved=0CGUQpQI&tbm=&tbs=tl:1,tlul:1000,tluh:2011

And I had explained that this time is also different because egypt is demanding a regime change.

I really don't get your point.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14049018 - 03/01/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Point is that revolutions are common throughout history. And guess what? They happen over and over again often in the same countries.  Can you guess why?  Yup the revolutionaries become corrupt when they gain power and become the new tyrants and need to be over thrown again and again.  Gee is that some evidence of what I've been saying?  No not for you I'm sure because as you mentioned you don't care about history and don't see how it's relevant to what's happening now.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14049024 - 03/01/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You mean common through the last 271 years?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14049710 - 03/01/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The last couple hundred years will do.  Populations being much lower before that and the ability of tyrants to really have an iron fisted control large areas especially rural. That's just a guess however. Over population and scarcity of natural resources might have an influence also.

And of course the main point being is once the revolution ends often the corruption and oppression begin.  Many of todays tyrants were yesterdays freedom fighters. This seems to be the nature of the beast. 

But I think we've been all over this before.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (03/01/11 07:44 PM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14052866 - 03/02/11 04:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The last couple hundred years will do.  Populations being much lower before that and the ability of tyrants to really have an iron fisted control large areas especially rural. That's just a guess however. Over population and scarcity of natural resources might have an influence also.

And of course the main point being is once the revolution ends often the corruption and oppression begin.  Many of todays tyrants were yesterdays freedom fighters. This seems to be the nature of the beast. 

But I think we've been all over this before.




Yes, you proved that humanity hasn't had a voice until recently, and people were oppressed, and had no ability to speak out or even to think for themselves.

The graph is showing the voice of humanity beginning to speak out as a whole, and it is becomming more articulate everyday.

You proved these differences.

Now how about explain why you are really here without accusations or deceit. I find it odd that someone who wants to help would resort to these tools.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053011 - 03/02/11 06:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, you proved that humanity hasn't had a voice until recently, and people were oppressed, and had no ability to speak out or even to think for themselves.

I never proved any such thing nor tried to as I'm fairly sure you are aware of.

Now how about explain why you are really here without accusations or deceit. I find it odd that someone who wants to help would resort to these tools.

How come , so often, when someone feels threatened in their ability to discuss an issue successfully they resort to attacking the other person discussing the issue. This is very poor form.

I've stated dozens of times here that I post for my own entertainment which is likely why we are all here. It would be better if you left me personally out of the discussion.  I assume it's a :nono: here the same as it is in the philosophy forum.

If you believe I am breaking the forum rules then the proper channel is to flag  the offending post and inform a moderator. They will then take the appropriate action.  Switching the discussion to the personality of the other person has no benefit to the discussion but instead serves only to distract from the ideas being discussed. Please keep this in mind and take any future discussion of Icelander to the Moderators or to me in PM.


Edited by Icelander (03/02/11 06:48 AM)


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14053040 - 03/02/11 06:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes, you proved that humanity hasn't had a voice until recently, and people were oppressed, and had no ability to speak out or even to think for themselves.

I never proved any such thing nor tried to as I'm fairly sure you are aware of.

Now how about explain why you are really here without accusations or deceit. I find it odd that someone who wants to help would resort to these tools.

How come , so often, when someone feels threatened in their ability to discuss an issue successfully they resort to attacking the other person discussing the issue. This is very poor form.

I've stated dozens of times here that I post for my own entertainment which is likely why we are all here. It would be better if you left me personally out of the discussion.  I assume it's a :nono: here the same as it is in the philosophy forum.

If you believe I am breaking the forum rules then the proper channel is to flag  the offending post and inform a moderator. They will then take the appropriate action.  Switching the discussion to the personality of the other person has no benefit to the discussion but instead serves only to distract from the ideas being discussed. Please keep this in mind and take any future discussion of Icelander to the Moderators or to me in PM.




I am simply questioning your motives.

Thanks for inadvertantly proving what I have said.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14053043 - 03/02/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Joolz said:
We will always have trouble uniting humanity as long as the southern Baptists exist. I've been raised through that church, my family all goes to a Baptist church. They spread hate on all other religions and refuse to listen to reason.

While we may fight our leaders, the people who refuse to end their hate against people different than them will always hold us down it seems.





I was raised same.  But that mind set is all over the country and I see it among the non religious too.  Humanity will remain basically in this state for the next few hundred thousand years at least.




I believe you left off explaining this.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053289 - 03/02/11 08:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes, you proved that humanity hasn't had a voice until recently, and people were oppressed, and had no ability to speak out or even to think for themselves.

I never proved any such thing nor tried to as I'm fairly sure you are aware of.

Now how about explain why you are really here without accusations or deceit. I find it odd that someone who wants to help would resort to these tools.

How come , so often, when someone feels threatened in their ability to discuss an issue successfully they resort to attacking the other person discussing the issue. This is very poor form.

I've stated dozens of times here that I post for my own entertainment which is likely why we are all here. It would be better if you left me personally out of the discussion.  I assume it's a :nono: here the same as it is in the philosophy forum.

If you believe I am breaking the forum rules then the proper channel is to flag  the offending post and inform a moderator. They will then take the appropriate action.  Switching the discussion to the personality of the other person has no benefit to the discussion but instead serves only to distract from the ideas being discussed. Please keep this in mind and take any future discussion of Icelander to the Moderators or to me in PM.




I am simply questioning your motives.

Thanks for inadvertantly proving what I have said.





Once again you are going off topic to make this a discussion about me the poster instead of the topic at hand. Most likely in an attempt to distract from the questions at hand or in an attempt to get back at me for some imagined slight.  I'm here to discuss the topic. I'll discuss you in PM if that's what I want.

Would any Moderator here like to weigh in on this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14053302 - 03/02/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Joolz said:
We will always have trouble uniting humanity as long as the southern Baptists exist. I've been raised through that church, my family all goes to a Baptist church. They spread hate on all other religions and refuse to listen to reason.

While we may fight our leaders, the people who refuse to end their hate against people different than them will always hold us down it seems.





I was raised same.  But that mind set is all over the country and I see it among the non religious too.  Humanity will remain basically in this state for the next few hundred thousand years at least.




I believe you left off explaining this.





No I finished explaining my position.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14053310 - 03/02/11 08:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And your position is based on fallacy?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14053327 - 03/02/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Likely not.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14053358 - 03/02/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see anything to the contrary.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14053367 - 03/02/11 08:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know what that means? Contrary to what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14053382 - 03/02/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know what that means? Contrary to what?




That your position is based on fallacy?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #14053399 - 03/02/11 09:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Show me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053421 - 03/02/11 09:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am simply questioning your motives.

teknix,

His motives, his mother's honor, and the color of his tie have NOTHING to do with the validity of his argument. You've been here long enough to know this.

Debate the topic and leave the people you're debating with out of the discussion. They are COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Consider this your warning.

Read the rest of the rules here before you post again:

Edit: wrong link:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4780411


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #14053435 - 03/02/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #14053443 - 03/02/11 09:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I am simply questioning your motives.

teknix,

His motives, his mother's honor, and the color of his tie have NOTHING to do with the validity of his argument. You've been here long enough to know this.

Debate the topic and leave the people you're debating with out of the discussion. They are COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Consider this your warning.

Read the rest of the rules here before you post again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664#4526664




This is the Philosophy forum rules?


--------------------
.6th and 7th sense theory
.Now is forever. .ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞTheﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞUnseenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ is seenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ by the blindﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ eye.ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ.When the inevitable time comes, go with your head held high,without regret or remorse, in your subconscious mind.
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #14053455 - 03/02/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I am simply questioning your motives.

teknix,

His motives, his mother's honor, and the color of his tie have NOTHING to do with the validity of his argument. You've been here long enough to know this.

Debate the topic and leave the people you're debating with out of the discussion. They are COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Consider this your warning.

Read the rest of the rules here before you post again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664#4526664




Please point out where I have defied any rules?

If I did, I appologize.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053488 - 03/02/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Copy/Paste the wrong link. I fixed it.

1) No Flaming. No Trolling. Flaming or spiritual bashing is not tolerated in this section. Do not provoke others with incendiary or condescending remarks.

Questioning someone's motivations is trolling. It has nothing to do with the discussion and it borders on disrespect.

And while posting irrelevancies is not expressly against the rules, it's off topic.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #14053507 - 03/02/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I still fail too see how questioning ones motives apply's to any of those?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053524 - 03/02/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Let's just all stick to the topic unless the topic is your fellow poster, OK?

The topic here is "We are angry with our leaders", not "Icelander's Motivations".


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14053614 - 03/02/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well I've been doing a little research here and there seems to be some case for humans being more violent in the past.  However there are mixed conclusions as to why this might be so. What makes the most sense to me is that we are less violent not because we are getting less emotionally violent but basically we have less need to be violent.  In much of the world basic food and shelter needs are met.  In parts of the world where this is a problem you can expect there to be more violence.  Same emotional landscape but different actions based on need. In a scenario where overpopulation and scarcity of resources becomes a survival issue we can expect violence to increase.  So far we have been able to keep starvation localized to small areas of the world but the future may be iffy. Also much violence is imo sublimated. In business they use terms such as "dog eat dog or I'm going to make a killing" etc. and the same scenario is acted out but not with actual physical violence and death a direct result.

IMO the likely hood of violence being dramatically lessened in our emotional landscape would be an evolutionary process taking unknown thousands of years. Evolution is a very slow process.

So my personal conclusion is that we have less violence because we are in a safe place materially. If that changes all bets will be off.  The bottom line will be survival and violence and division will increase.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14053988 - 03/02/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So my personal conclusion is that we have less violence because we are in a safe place materially. If that changes all bets will be off.  The bottom line will be survival and violence and division will increase.




I see exactly that happening now. Almost all of these current unrest's around the world are result of people starvation and very very low life standards. As food prices increase, it could only produce results we see around.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: ivander]
    #14054024 - 03/02/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's a constant power struggle that I see everywhere  on so many levels. IF it benefits the individual they will cooperate to some degree. If basic resources ever truly become scarce then I don't want to be around for it.  However this is mirrored everywhere in nature and is perfectly natural.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14054110 - 03/02/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They are not truly scarce yet.. but with food price increase, and with price increase of many other stuff, many people just are not capable and willing to close their eyes, cuz shit is now in their backyard... and it all happened in 'all of a sudden'. Its not a power struggle, its struggle for life these days... maybe its not so visible now, but if this trend continue... well see fire all around, possibly in few years time, or sooner or later.. although I hope not.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: ivander]
    #14054158 - 03/02/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well the end times have been predicted in each generation so it's impossible to tell what the future will bring.  I'm moving into the end phase of my life so I'm not very invested in how it all plays out.  I'm just going to watch the show like I am now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14054272 - 03/02/11 12:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think that the end signifies a new beginning :smile:


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Offlineivander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14054279 - 03/02/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

End of times is really undefined and unreasonable idea. And there is no way, that planet will just explode. More likely that current social and political system will change... for better or worse. Either way enjoy the ride. I know I do.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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Offlineand yet it moves
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Icelander]
    #14090459 - 03/09/11 12:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

and yet it moves said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
The corrupt teachers union. :tongue:  You have no idea.



are you aNGRY at a teacher for giving you a grade? how dare they judge you!





Nice try. Well not really very good. Maybe a D+



D+?!?!?!

Well thank you

Hey you know what they say, D's earn degrees


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OfflineDagon
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #14092938 - 03/09/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Copy/Paste the wrong link. I fixed it.

1) No Flaming. No Trolling. Flaming or spiritual bashing is not tolerated in this section. Do not provoke others with incendiary or condescending remarks.

Questioning someone's motivations is trolling. It has nothing to do with the discussion and it borders on disrespect.

And while posting irrelevancies is not expressly against the rules, it's off topic.




:thumbdown:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093024 - 03/09/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why are you thumbing down Diploid's post? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineDagon
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #14093339 - 03/09/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It means that I disagree.

Quote:

Diploid said:
I am simply questioning your motives.

teknix,

His motives, his mother's honor, and the color of his tie have NOTHING to do with the validity of his argument. You've been here long enough to know this.

Debate the topic and leave the people you're debating with out of the discussion. They are COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Consider this your warning.

Read the rest of the rules here before you post again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664#4526664




This is a discussion, not a debate.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093367 - 03/09/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dagon said:
It means that I disagree.


Yeah, no shit? :lol:

I was asking why you disagree.


Quote:

Dagon said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Debate the topic and leave the people you're debating with out of the discussion. They are COMPLETELY irrelevant.




This is a discussion, not a debate.


Well he never said it wasn't a discussion; do you think that, just because this is not a debate, the rules don't apply? :wtf:

Who said that this isn't a debate, anyways? I've seen a lot of debate in this thread, much of it coming from OP.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Poid]
    #14093383 - 03/09/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am not here to argue with you, have a good day.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093394 - 03/09/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely interested in why you disagree with Diploid's post. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineDagon
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Poid]
    #14093434 - 03/09/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

God told me to.

:cool:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093443 - 03/09/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What if he told you to chop off your penis? And eat it? Raw? :penis:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093460 - 03/09/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Icelander

Reason for deletion: wrong forum



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDagon
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #14093472 - 03/09/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
What if he told you to chop off your penis? And eat it? Raw? :penis:



Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Dagon said:
God told me to.

:cool:





Another newbie  example of the modern educational system.

Those Unions in Wisconsin sure are helping.




?

:sad:


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093485 - 03/09/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dagon said:
:sad:


:evil2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093500 - 03/09/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

God wouldn't say something like that.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093518 - 03/09/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

He also probably wouldn't reply to his own posts.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Poid]
    #14093538 - 03/09/11 04:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What you say is hurtful to me, please don't.


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: Dagon]
    #14093572 - 03/09/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why would you say don't if it already happened? :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #15110637 - 09/21/11 06:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: Buckthorn] * 1
    #15110718 - 09/21/11 07:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enpo said:
2 bad this revolution is going to make our lives hellish unless we can manage 2 find hippie communes





You want to bring about "hell" then you wanna run off to a cushty couch and smoke a blunt and not shower for 6 weeks while watching the hell you brought about on TV. Umm, ok then.


Quote:

teknix said:
Everyone makes mistakes, we are human.

Are all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?




On the one hand it's all "Heil" this and "USA USA USA" that but when you mention *gasp* THE HOLOCAUST Germans cease to exist and when you remind people living in North America that their ancestors were murderous pillagers, America stops existing. Suddenly we're all Individual Human Beingsβ„’ and everything is rosy smelling farts and shit-stained flowers.

Everybody wanna be proud of what they personally didn't do but nobody wanna take the shit for what those folks did.

For as long as you cling to "German" or "American" for identification, you retain pride in the results of mass murder.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


Edited by crkhd (09/21/11 07:48 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: crkhd]
    #15111113 - 09/21/11 10:01 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: crkhd]
    #15111588 - 09/21/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Everyone makes mistakes, we are human.

Are all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?




On the one hand it's all "Heil" this and "USA USA USA" that but when you mention *gasp* THE HOLOCAUST Germans cease to exist and when you remind people living in North America that their ancestors were murderous pillagers, America stops existing. Suddenly we're all Individual Human Beingsβ„’ and everything is rosy smelling farts and shit-stained flowers.

Everybody wanna be proud of what they personally didn't do but nobody wanna take the shit for what those folks did.

For as long as you cling to "German" or "American" for identification, you retain pride in the results of mass murder.





It's your choice to be that, no nationality inherently describes the human born there.


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: teknix]
    #15113407 - 09/21/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That's true. Doesn't stop the people born there claiming it does at times it conveniently suits them.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. [Re: crkhd]
    #15619514 - 01/05/12 10:20 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I'm wondering if this thread is a sort of synchronicity. I posted this before the occupy movement and shortly thereafter our country joined in. I'm not trying to take credit or claim precog or anything, just seems interesting coincidence.

So maybe It isn't just me and we are having an awakening on the global scale, including the US.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #18905444 - 09/29/13 01:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why is this says deleted?


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Re: We are angry with our leaders. *DELETED* [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18910405 - 09/30/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Revolution: An Instruction Manual




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