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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14016661 - 02/23/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said: How would you say it wasn't your "will" clearing you mind during meditation?
You chose the time, place, etc. You sat down, closed your eyes, and then focused on the breath (or whatever) and then at least IME there comes a point where even the breath is gone and it's pure silence. There's no time, no thoughts, etc.
BUT I still did the work to get me there.

"If I am the will behind thought, why would I be unable to stop thinking? If I am not the will behind thought, then how can any choice informed by thought be the result of my will?"
IMO it is suffering that drove me to start meditating, not any force of my will. And it was suffering that kept me meditating, not any force of my will. Relief from the suffering, or reward, had it's hand in this as well. But I don't see anything resembling will.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle]
#14016677 - 02/23/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK Now I see what you you're saying a bit better.
What if you perhaps acted against your suffering? Made a decision one day to not meditate anymore despite it's benefits. Would you consider that free will?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14016697 - 02/23/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nah, it's happened before. It's always a grass is greener on the other side type deal. I expect less suffering from not having to expend the effort, even if I know better. The more times this happens, the more resolved I become. But it isn't a very quick process. Not that I'm complaining -- gotta pass the time somehow.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle]
#14016703 - 02/23/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well then, I guess we're at that part of the thread.
Who IYO is doing the thinking if it's not "you"?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14016743 - 02/23/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh, it's me alright. As much a me as anything can be
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle] 1
#14016834 - 02/23/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Anatta is an interesting thing.
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14016854 - 02/23/11 10:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's invaluable to realize.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sorahtak
Tiger Hugger

Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle]
#14017061 - 02/23/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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True this. Sometimes I forget and find myself getting anxious about things. Then I stop and go oh wait.. Right.
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle]
#14017076 - 02/23/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree that at first a lot of weight comes off. A lot.
Unfortunately following that IME there's a period where some kind of new identity or relationship with the world has to be established if one is to continue with any kind of life worth living.
If life was meaningless before...how much more so now that "I" don't even exist outside of the mental projections of my brain. Seriously, it's heavy stuff.
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14017532 - 02/24/11 12:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice post kickle!
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire



Registered: 07/19/00
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cross post!
-------------------- RIP Acidic_Sloth Sunset_Mission said: "larry the scary rex verily scary when thoroughly vexed invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex mercifully massacring memories masterfully relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs" April 24th 2011
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sorahtak
Tiger Hugger

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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14017715 - 02/24/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree, Cups. Sometimes it can cause some pretty serious alienation. I think its all about finding some kind of balance. This is a lifetime pursuit though I would imagine.
And Larry, I think a cross post between PS&P and S&M is reasonable, as it is quite valid in both and each forum might have a different perspective.
Is there a rule against cross posting? Or is it just generally frowned upon..
I could see how it would be if you posted the same thing in the pub and psych experience forums, but this one seems alright to me.
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Kickle]
#14018920 - 02/24/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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You can shut down a computer .. plug it out of the wall. Put it in a closet.. and turn it back on in two years. We can't do this as living beings. In fact.. the body and the mind , never truly stop functioning at some level until physical death occurs. Instead.. it is this awareness that gets cut out of the picture in deep sleep. The body and mind still function.. yet YOU are somehow gone.
We have two possible scenarios here :
1. Identity is merely a by product of the mind/body complex and any sense of freedom is illusory.
2. Identity exists irrespective of the mind/body complex, which in this case has a virtual representative instead of a strictly physical one like a computer from the previous analogy.
A good example good be a character in the game world of warcraft.
either way, freedom would be restricted by : Rules of how the machine operates Rules within the game. (rules of that virtual world)
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: Cups]
#14020767 - 02/24/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said: I agree that at first a lot of weight comes off. A lot.
Unfortunately following that IME there's a period where some kind of new identity or relationship with the world has to be established if one is to continue with any kind of life worth living.
If life was meaningless before...how much more so now that "I" don't even exist outside of the mental projections of my brain. Seriously, it's heavy stuff.
I let go of the reigns and let the horse go where it wanted. I must have had thought pretty in step with reality before that and had a good working system already in place because it's still running along doing its thing. It has only had a few de-rails here and there, nothing major. Mostly in terms of intellectual property. Letting that slip away was a conscious effort, but no effort to lay claim has happened again.
If others want what comes with the territory, they can have it
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Here's a thought [Re: jivJaN]
#14021269 - 02/24/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jivJaN said: You can shut down a computer .. plug it out of the wall. Put it in a closet.. and turn it back on in two years. We can't do this as living beings. In fact.. the body and the mind , never truly stop functioning at some level until physical death occurs. Instead.. it is this awareness that gets cut out of the picture in deep sleep. The body and mind still function.. yet YOU are somehow gone.
We have two possible scenarios here :
1. Identity is merely a by product of the mind/body complex and any sense of freedom is illusory.
2. Identity exists irrespective of the mind/body complex, which in this case has a virtual representative instead of a strictly physical one like a computer from the previous analogy.
A good example good be a character in the game world of warcraft.
either way, freedom would be restricted by : Rules of how the machine operates Rules within the game. (rules of that virtual world)
Check out 29:30-34...
And then check out 43:50-46:30
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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