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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: deff] * 1
    #14013485 - 02/23/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

One's wisdom is supposed to reflect in one's deeds. Being ethical is theoretically a prerequisite to higher achievements, that's one of the reasons why monastics are the bearers of the tradition and not laymen. Zen is said to be the direct path to perfect enlightenment. It's just that it doesn't exactly show in its living form. What can we make of that?]


Looks like I'm not the only one asking these questions.  And it's very interesting to me that they recommend traditional psychotherapy for him. Seems he can't be helped within the ranks.

In many ways this is what is happening in religious orders all over.  No one notices that someone is not the real thing (which seems amazing) or no one is willing to confront a wrongdoer (which imo is the same as justifying the behavior and makes everyone who knows a wrongdoer)

What has enlightenment to do with anything here?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTony
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14013823 - 02/23/11 02:05 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Big Mindβ„’

:rolleyes:

When you're in samsara, the right question, I believe, is not "what is the enlightened master doing in my girl friend's bedroom"..

It's Where is the exit?

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Tony]
    #14013943 - 02/23/11 02:19 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

:rofl:


--------------------

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Offlineivander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14013998 - 02/23/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Idk, if this 'master' would call him self enlightened but if he did, then he is not. If others considered him to be that, then he is not to blame. Beside, even if that is too much money for my taste, if he had, trough whatever is he doing, actually helped some of his students, then, IMO, it does not really matter.
I think you should reconsider what does the word enlightenment really mean to you. And then perhaps you would not need others to explain you stuff.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: ivander]
    #14014040 - 02/23/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

I'm asking questions to understand and learn.  There's nothing wrong in that.

Again I'll ask this question because many times here certain posters have told me that if I was in the presence of a Master I would know it.  Many people took this guy as authentic and yet it seems he was not.  How could they not know. How could his fellow teachers not see through him?

Can you see why I question that I am being told the truth?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTony
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014242 - 02/23/11 02:59 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

"when you're in the presence of the master you'll know it without a doubt. While there is still a master and a student doubt is pretty much guaranteed. It's a doubtful world.."

Edited by Tony (02/23/11 03:01 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Tony]
    #14014358 - 02/23/11 03:12 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Then why when I have many times here made the argument that I watched the video or read the book of some "Master" and stated I was not impressed was I told that would all be changed if I was only in their presence???


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Tony]
    #14014388 - 02/23/11 03:16 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

My opinion on this matter is, well the dude obviously did not have control of his sexual energy. Or he was just fucking horny I dunno.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14014625 - 02/23/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Well then his sex energy was the most powerful thing for him. Cause if I had this bliss of enlightenment I think I could forgo the affair, especially if I already had a wife.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTony
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014664 - 02/23/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why when I have many times here made the argument that I watched the video or read the book of some "Master" and stated I was not impressed was I told that would all be changed if I was only in their presence???




who knows how people get impressed or intoxicated but for a moment it has to happen, otherwise what would draw them(the teacher and the student) together?

they're not exactly forcing anyone to go seem them..

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Tony]
    #14014763 - 02/23/11 04:15 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Neither is the snake oil salesman forcing anyone to buy their phony product. 

My point being that these people (lots for many years not to mention his fellow teachers)  were drawn to this teacher and some paying $50,000 dollars for a seminar. And if you talked to them I'm pretty sure they would be telling you that this guy was the real deal.  Yet's it certainly looks like he's not the real deal. So it looks like these people needed to believe in him for reasons other that his actual enlightenment or knowledge.  They were seeing him while he was lying and cheating on his wife and lying to all his friends and fellow teachers.  This only makes sense to me if the truth of the matter is everyone is intentionally or unintentionally fooling themselves.  And I've been wondering if this wasn't the truth of the matter for a long time now.

Look if his fellow teachers can't detect a phony then what does that say about them?  Or if they knew and kept quiet for whatever reason what does that say? No one is giving me a reason that fellow teachers who have special awareness are being fooled so easily. What's going on?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleBuckthorn
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14015010 - 02/23/11 05:05 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

His root chakra was not balanced. The divine mother goddess took posession of one of her daughters and using ancient, instinctutal methods of attraction cast a curse on the monk in order to balance his kundalini.

If this didn't happen who knows what could have happened to our planet...

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Buckthorn]
    #14015037 - 02/23/11 05:08 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Well it's the most reasonable answer I've gotten so far. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Buckthorn]
    #14015731 - 02/23/11 07:02 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enpo said:
His root chakra was not balanced. The divine mother goddess took posession of one of her daughters and using ancient, instinctutal methods of attraction cast a curse on the monk in order to balance his kundalini.

If this didn't happen who knows what could have happened to our planet...




Actually i used my Third eye to detect his etheric Ball Triangle was pointed the wrong direction.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14015741 - 02/23/11 07:03 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Well something was pointing in the wrong direction.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool
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Posts: 3,666
Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14015825 - 02/23/11 07:19 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

:lol:

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InvisibleCups
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14016437 - 02/23/11 09:06 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

I once heard a dude talking about this.  He's a big name buddhist guy who runs his own center and that kind of thing.

He said for him to verify arahatship status in someone took at least 6 months of constant contact with them.  During that time he would use various devices and tricks to try and illicit anger.  He said that's the key- If they can go that long without the slightest hint of anger no matter what...then he would approve them.

So if it takes a "master" 1/2 a year to test someone where does that leave anyone else?

Icelander has a good point here in that this guy apparently had all these other zen masters fooled.

I can see the laypeople...they have a vested interest in him being who he says he is.  I suppose we almost all see what we want to see.  Although....

You think any of the disciples pulled anything on Jesus? :lol:  Or Buddha for that matter.  :strokebeard:

Maybe it's like hollywood- Fix it in post.


--------------------
What's up everybody?!

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14016635 - 02/23/11 09:37 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Let me get this straight . . .

You want us to tell you what they were thinking?

This is nothing new, these guys have always been the black sheep.

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/zen.asp

If I was a fallower of this tradition then I wouldn't expect anything less.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: teknix]
    #14016691 - 02/23/11 09:44 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Well that's a fun read. Why would anyone in their right mind think these fucks have anything to offer?  I would put a knife in their gut and twist if they tried that shit on me. It's amazing to me what people will swallow in the name spirituality.

And the rest of the Buddhist community allows this? Sounds more and more like the Catholic church all the time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineivander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
    #14019476 - 02/24/11 11:35 AM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm asking questions to understand and learn.  There's nothing wrong in that.

Again I'll ask this question because many times here certain posters have told me that if I was in the presence of a Master I would know it.  Many people took this guy as authentic and yet it seems he was not.  How could they not know. How could his fellow teachers not see through him?

Can you see why I question that I am being told the truth?



Sure there is nothing wrong with asking question, but surely neither you, nor anyone who has more then 1gm of brain will blindly accept what they have been told. Discernment is the word.
So what they said for to be in the presence of the master, and that you would know depends only upon you, not the master.
So how could they not know? Perhaps cuz they did not use theirs analysis skills, upon this so called master, but, took him for granted, and we can argue why is that so, but surely this world is full of such examples. fe. crop circles are made by aliens... some would just blindly believe in this, while others will surely not. Its the programing of the population on this matter.
On the other hand, maybe he had Viagra in his drink, can you really discredit all of his 'good work' cuz he was framed once. Or perhaps he was enlightened trough some parts of his life, and then he lost interest in that work. Hell it happens also, does it not?


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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