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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
No Good & Evil?
    #14014068 - 02/23/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Since the definition of Good & Evil only exists in observation and differs from person to person..

What makes something evil? Who are we to say what's 'wrong'(evil) or 'right'(good)

What we do is what we do.. the 'way' of life.
Take murder for example.
If I take someones life, how is that considered bad since morals are not law. If a lion kills an antelope what consequences does the lion face besides a full stomach?
Since we are just like animals what makes human murder any different from animal murder?

What is stealing?
Technically no one is the true owner of anything.
'Nature'(For lack of a better word) made it, 'Nature' owns it. (IMO)

Why are these morals of good & evil made?
Is it for unity and peace among the population?
If everyone had the same morals would there eventually be peace?

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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014126 - 02/23/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Are they created to keep the mass population under control by scaring them with so called 'answers' of the unknown?
(Such as hell, purgatory)
Are they taking advantage of the fear that resides in the unknown?
Did the kings of past make up these morals to keep the common man from revolting against them or stop working whatever job they may of had?

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014142 - 02/23/11 02:48 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

If everyone had the same morals would there eventually be peace?

Yes of sorts but only if they were to act on them consistently.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014150 - 02/23/11 02:49 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

What happened to doing what you think is right(basic instinct) instead of doing what others think is right?

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Invisiblegiza
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014179 - 02/23/11 02:52 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If everyone had the same morals would there eventually be peace?

Yes of sorts but only if they were to act on them consistently.




This is where psychology would play through nicely..
If we could create morals so that every human understands the morals enough to abide by them.

Psychology and Science are the key factors in peace, IMO.

Science finds answers and proves them as psychology finds the 'spiritual' answers and proves them through understanding.
My opinion of course.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014183 - 02/23/11 02:52 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

I don't think that was ever a common practice. It's a fairy tale we are told about humanity.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014241 - 02/23/11 02:59 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

With the whole science and psychology being roots for peace..

Ancient times some believed their sun god carried the sun across the sky.
Science proved them wrong.
Now how many still worship the sun god?
Science is the death of religon.

Psychology plays a major part on the way a person understands and commits to certain morals.

2 key factors in dissolving the fear of society that creates 'chaos'.
IMO.

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014262 - 02/23/11 03:01 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

They feared the sun god because of their beliefs.
But once he was disproved..
The belief in him dissolved and so did the fear.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014285 - 02/23/11 03:03 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Now how many still worship the sun god?

It's just the form that has changed.  Tons of people still believe in gods.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014312 - 02/23/11 03:06 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Who are we to say what's 'wrong'(evil) or 'right'(good)




We are the only ones who can, seeing as morality is an entirely human concept.
Each one of us has our own perception of good and evil, none of us are right, some of us are closer to objective truth but none the less that doesn't make them any more right.
Often people who share views of good and evil will join together on those basic principals, the church for example, and then become a force of evil to others as they oppressively push their "good morality" on others.
There are so many different perceptions and views of this world and no one person or omniscient deity present to really give us anything concrete to fall back on.
The best we have is this system of laws which yeah, idealistically can outline a pretty decent society, but really is just stemming from the institution of the church.
Which was people grouping together around their morals and ethics...
and then it dawns that through our whole lives we've been given a set of laws and ideals to follow as if they were inherently true, things we can and cannot do or suffer the punishment, and at no point was it anything but one or many humans pushing their ideals on other humans. :crazy2:

I was thinking on something similar to this last night; how strange it is that one man can see a killing and judge a person who just committed murder, and then decide that to rectify the situation they themselves must commit the very same act they are persecuting their victim for. It's fucking perplexing.

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Offlinelearningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014334 - 02/23/11 03:08 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

giza said:


Psychology and Science are the key factors in peace, IMO.






How's that for peace?

i would say that science has nothing to do with it; recognizing that the division of self and other is ultimately an illusion is the key to peace.

Edited by learningtofly (02/23/11 03:10 PM)

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
No other.
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 418
Loc: OZ Flag
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014340 - 02/23/11 03:10 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

giza said:
What happened to doing what you think is right(basic instinct) instead of doing what others think is right?




What about if you think that doing, what others think is right, is right?


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14014342 - 02/23/11 03:10 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

:lol:

He may be right about psychology if we can get lay people to address theirs.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: Tropism]
    #14014505 - 02/23/11 03:32 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Tropism said:
Quote:

Who are we to say what's 'wrong'(evil) or 'right'(good)




We are the only ones who can, seeing as morality is an entirely human concept.
Each one of us has our own perception of good and evil, none of us are right, some of us are closer to objective truth but none the less that doesn't make them any more right.
Often people who share views of good and evil will join together on those basic principals, the church for example, and then become a force of evil to others as they oppressively push their "good morality" on others.
There are so many different perceptions and views of this world and no one person or omniscient deity present to really give us anything concrete to fall back on.
The best we have is this system of laws which yeah, idealistically can outline a pretty decent society, but really is just stemming from the institution of the church.
Which was people grouping together around their morals and ethics...
and then it dawns that through our whole lives we've been given a set of laws and ideals to follow as if they were inherently true, things we can and cannot do or suffer the punishment, and at no point was it anything but one or many humans pushing their ideals on other humans. :crazy2:

I was thinking on something similar to this last night; how strange it is that one man can see a killing and judge a person who just committed murder, and then decide that to rectify the situation they themselves must commit the very same act they are persecuting their victim for. It's fucking perplexing.




Exactly..
Are these 'judges' of good & evil worthy of dealing punishment at all?
They are not 'divine' at all, if divinity even exists.
Who is worthy of even deeming a person a judge?
- they go to school for so long and pass some tests in which they are already given the answer?!?!:confused:

Edited by giza (02/23/11 03:33 PM)

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14014540 - 02/23/11 03:36 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

giza said:


Psychology and Science are the key factors in peace, IMO.






How's that for peace?

i would say that science has nothing to do with it; recognizing that the division of self and other is ultimately an illusion is the key to peace.




Well what better way to rid existence of it's diseased minds?

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014549 - 02/23/11 03:37 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Well I guess there could be mental rehabilitation

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014624 - 02/23/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

But science helps disprove religous views of the physical nature.

To the eradication of the species..

If they were to destroy everyone except for a few so that the species may repopulate(obviously)..
The new race, if brought up a certain way..
would know nothing different than what they are taught.

The problem of trying to 'change' all that exist is that they already know of 'evil' so it weighs on their conscious
If you were to start over and only teach of 'good' any 'evil' that would be committed by this new race would be deemed forgivable for it was a 'natural' action

For christian folk:
Maybe that's why in the bible God kicked adam and eve out of the garden..
Since they ate the fruit to learn of good and evil that means they cannot be trusted because they know of the evil.

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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14014773 - 02/23/11 04:18 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Exactly..
Are these 'judges' of good & evil worthy of dealing punishment at all?
They are not 'divine' at all, if divinity even exists.
Who is worthy of even deeming a person a judge?





I suppose most would answer "the masses" but if we go with the majority vote, and it won marginally, then isn't half of the mass not getting what they want? There's no real way to please everyone.

The conclusion I draw from this is to stop worrying about morality so much. It's a sham, it isn't there, things just happen, there's life on this rock and much of it is violent and filled with malice but there's nothing to be done about it. You may even find yourself caught in a blinding rage at one point in your life, emotions run us and they can be overwhelming, they're the things of animals and animals is what we are.

For all the love and justice in the world it sure isn't kind enough to offer those things in return. I've always figured no matter a man's ethics or morals if some disturbing scenario happens upon him (say someone has raped and killed his wife and daughter) no amount of positive energy or hippy bullshit is going to lessen the sadistic nature of that kind of blinding anger.

So what does it matter? Suddenly the idea of torturing that son of a bitch seems right. Now what does that say about right and wrong? :lol:

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: Tropism]
    #14015308 - 02/23/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

The guy that raped and killed his wife and daughter..

His action triggered you to want to do something to him.
No right or wrong has anything to do with it, it's purely instinctual
His action affected you in the way where you want to do harm to him.
But the thing that holds you back from doing so is..
The current laws of our country

Say you get in a fight with another
When you fight your instinct is to hurt him
But as soon as you knock him out.. for some reason you stop.
What keeps you from beating the other to death?
(Hypothetical scenario)

Get what I'm trying to say?

Edited by giza (02/23/11 05:57 PM)

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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: No Good & Evil? [Re: giza]
    #14015519 - 02/23/11 06:27 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. I mean if someone raped and killed your daughter, imagine how that would make you feel, and how you might not be too concerned with restraint when it came to dealing with it.

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