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Icelander
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Can somebody answer this? 1
#14013098 - 02/23/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I posted this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13994560 here about a high up Zen Master who was caught lying/cheating and having an affair.
Now if enlightenment and the benefits of bliss and satori and all that are so amazing then why did this happen to him? If I could be in this amazing state of enlightenment I would think resisting temptation over a little sex on the side would be really easy.
Can someone explain this?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kickle
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013151 - 02/23/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hard to say. My guess is because he was bluffing on most his claims.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013155 - 02/23/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Can someone explain this?
Humans like sex
The fact he cheated on his wife is the only scandalous thing that happened imo, not an enlightened human having sex with another human, nothing wrong with that, its the fact he was married, i know masters who have girlfreinded their students & they were/are respected. Just like when gangajis husband cheated on her with a student, its not the having sex with a student, its the cheating on your wife part. Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
Im sure there's a relationships forum somewhere that can enlighten you on the psychology of marriage & sex...
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Chronic7
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013165 - 02/23/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are enlightened humans no longer allowed to be human?
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013176 - 02/23/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
I think the OP is trying to reaffirm some belief he has.
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013213 - 02/23/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Can someone explain this?
Humans like sex
The fact he cheated on his wife is the only scandalous thing that happened imo, not an enlightened human having sex with another human, nothing wrong with that, its the fact he was married, i know masters who have girlfreinded their students & they were/are respected. Just like when gangajis husband cheated on her with a student, its not the having sex with a student, its the cheating on your wife part. Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
Im sure there's a relationships forum somewhere that can enlighten you on the psychology of marriage & sex...
So he's enlightened and getting sex from marriage and still needs to cheat and lie. Really what does this say about the benefits of enlightenment?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14013215 - 02/23/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
I think the OP is trying to reaffirm some belief he has.
Nice try to discredit this discussion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013217 - 02/23/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Are enlightened humans no longer allowed to be human?
Of course not but if enlightenment includes cheating and lying then what differentiates it from the so called normal human behaviors.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013225 - 02/23/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Can someone explain this?
Humans like sex
The fact he cheated on his wife is the only scandalous thing that happened imo, not an enlightened human having sex with another human, nothing wrong with that, its the fact he was married, i know masters who have girlfreinded their students & they were/are respected. Just like when gangajis husband cheated on her with a student, its not the having sex with a student, its the cheating on your wife part. Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
Im sure there's a relationships forum somewhere that can enlighten you on the psychology of marriage & sex...
So he's enlightened and getting sex from marriage and still needs to cheat and lie. Really what does this say about the benefits of enlightenment?
That nobody for the rest of time should try and bring wisdom into & evolve their mind lets just fuck & feed
Maybe he is or isn't enlightened but humans are humans so they act like humans
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Chronic7
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013238 - 02/23/11 12:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not everyhting is so black & white you know...
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013240 - 02/23/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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That nobody for the rest of time should try and bring wisdom into & evolve their mind lets just fuck & feed
Is that really what it says because I would think that one's actions would reflect their internal condition.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7]
#14013249 - 02/23/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Not everyhting is so black & white you know...
Explain how this guys actions are those of an enlightened Master who can charge up to $50,000 per person for a seminar to pass on his teachings.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013295 - 02/23/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Im not defending this dude at all, charging that much to teach people meditation is insane, im just saying that because one guy acts like a twat it doesn't write off the entire side of human experience that involves realization of the truth, its not an excuse to say that mental illumination (enlightenment) is a farce, its just an example of a human being human.
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Chronic7] 1
#14013308 - 02/23/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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So then let's say this guy is a fraud and not an enlightened Master. He's not just some nobody in the ranks. I've been told over and over that when one is in the presence of an enlightened Master one can tell it and feel it and know it. Yet thousands of people who believed this guy was the real deal somehow missed it. What's up with that?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013313 - 02/23/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Why does that need explaining particularly in a spiritual forum?
I think the OP is trying to reaffirm some belief he has.
Nice try to discredit this discussion. 
Not at all. I think it is telling to the discussion. Can't you accept that people are people, no matter what label they attach to themselves? You want to believe that because one guy is a fraud, a Gandhi cannot exist.
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14013333 - 02/23/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not at all?
Then show me where I said a Ghandi cannot exist?
I'm asking questions and I want answers. (which you ignore btw) Is that too much to ask?
Oh and I can except that people are people no matter what label they attach to themselves. But what exactly does this say about people being people?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013353 - 02/23/11 12:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I answered your question and got right to the foundation of what you were getting at. Are you mad that I'm not trying to make an argument for the "master"?
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Icelander
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14013360 - 02/23/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK (sorry I missed your first post) so then how did all these people and his organization miss this for so long? Aren't you supposed to be able to tell an enlightened Master when in their presence. And how did all the other Masters miss this and not expose him?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: Icelander]
#14013424 - 02/23/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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here's a thread about this case from a buddhist forum: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3262
i have no opinion on this stuff myself
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Chronic7
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Re: Can somebody answer this? [Re: deff]
#14013453 - 02/23/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
i have no opinion on this stuff myself 
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