Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Walker-ing over a cliff
    #14012458 - 02/23/11 09:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Things haven't been looking so well for Walker's union-busting crusade, what with the governors in Indiana and Florida refusing to join in The Wave; Walker overplaying his hand by refusing to accept the union's complete capitulation to his own proposed benefit cuts and copay increases, revealing that union-busting is the be-all and end-all of his radical and ideological agenda; and let's not forget the polls showing massive public support for the public workers' union.



(Funny, I remember reading so many posts about how these protesters represent only a teeny tiny minority and should shut the fuck up. I guess now those people will either attempt to rationalize this -- don't bother; every poll agrees, the public supports the unions -- or disappear.)

But now Walker has really given us the lowlight of his short career, which I suspect will end in a recall election early next year. The Buffalo Beast called him up pretending to be David Koch, led him into confessing some most unseemly thoughts, and caught it all on tape.

Oh wow.

Quote:

Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.


Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this...




Hmm. I believe the correct answer would have been "no, that would be a profoundly dishonest abuse of power, impeachable if found out, and has no place in American politics." As opposed to "we thought about that".

Furthermore, you'd think his reaction to a call from 'Koch' would have been "I have no contact with that leftist bogeyman, this is an obvious fraud!" Weird how that didn't happen.

He wanted to be the next Reagan, but he's looking a lot more like the new Nixon.

:rofl2::facepalm::rofldrunk::whatever::rofl::lol:

(On the plus side, maybe he'll get a date with Mika Brzezinski now that she knows he considers her a 'real piece of ass' :smile2:)



***Edit: Buffalobeast keeps crashing so here's Slate's excerpts:

http://www.slate.com/BLOGS/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/02/23/did-scott-walker-reveal-his-crisis-ending-ruse-to-a-prank-caller.aspx

Edited by jimbotron (02/23/11 09:38 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14012560 - 02/23/11 09:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

BTW, compare and contrast this with the ACORN 'sting'. No ludicrous stories, no splicing, and Walker does all the talking.

I'm sure this will be all over Fox News. Right?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14012581 - 02/23/11 09:40 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This is great, too:

Quote:

An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won't do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it... the reason for that, we're verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it's turned out that way. So we’re double checking that.




DEMOCRACY, BITCHES!

I guess Plan B is to send in CIA kidnappers with chloroform-soaked rags and eventually hogtie them all in the middle of the chamber, and Plan C is some Rube Goldberg contraption involving a check signed by George Soros and a giant north-facing catapult.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14012670 - 02/23/11 10:01 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What's sad is that Jon Stewart has moved so far to the right since his "liberals just need to give up" rally, I doubt he'll give this story the coverage it so richly deserves.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14012698 - 02/23/11 10:06 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

These New-Age conservatives really scare me. Of course, I'm not too fond of the far-left either. When, O when are we gonna get some moderates with some sense in power?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14013130 - 02/23/11 11:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There was nothing ludicrous or false about the ACORN sting, nor the Planned Parenthood sting.  Nor is there anything that is problematic for Walker in this call.

Do you think it is democratic for these politicians to abdicate their responsibility and flee the state thus thwarting the ability of the duly elected legislature to pass bills?  Because that would be a pretty stupid position to take.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGastronomicus
3-0-G
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14013605 - 02/23/11 01:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely. It's as democratic as the constant filibuster in the last senate. The fact of the matter is that democracy is built upon compromise. These workers have expressed willingness to capitulate to everything but the issue of collective bargaining, the issue of union rights. The fact that Walker is so adamant about stripping workers' rights, along with the fact that he held a 20 minute phone conversation with a man that he believed to be David Koch about details of his anti-union efforts shows the true nature of this bill.

Honestly I don't know why you're standing up for this schmuck. Unions are organizations of workers. They are not sucking off society's teat. All they are fighting for is the right to keep their only form of empowerment against exploitation, and Walker knows this. This is the disenfranchisement of working class people for the profit of the wealthy, the exact same kind of class warfare that has been happening for longer than I've been alive.

People's Rights :peace:


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14013971 - 02/23/11 02:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Absolutely. It's as democratic as the constant filibuster in the last senate. The fact of the matter is that democracy is built upon compromise. These workers have expressed willingness to capitulate to everything but the issue of collective bargaining, the issue of union rights. The fact that Walker is so adamant about stripping workers' rights, along with the fact that he held a 20 minute phone conversation with a man that he believed to be David Koch about details of his anti-union efforts shows the true nature of this bill.




The true nature of the bill is spelled out in the bill.  Duh.  And the fact that he didn't know the lying little fuck actually wasn't Koch actually goes to prove he doesn't know them.:facepalm:
Quote:



Honestly I don't know why you're standing up for this schmuck. Unions are organizations of workers. They are not sucking off society's teat. All they are fighting for is the right to keep their only form of empowerment against exploitation, and Walker knows this. This is the disenfranchisement of working class people for the profit of the wealthy, the exact same kind of class warfare that has been happening for longer than I've been alive.

People's Rights :peace:




I despise unions.  Always have.  These are not "working class people" as much as they are pampered snots who think they are a protected class.  I've known union workers.  They are the laziest most useless and entitled fucks you would ever meet.  Don't forget that the people who are being forced to pay these bloated salaries are workers too.  For decades the unions have installed politicians supposedly on the opposite side of the negotiating table who are supposed to represent all taxpayers but who are completely bough and paid for by public unions. 

When the people on both sides of the negotiating table are beholden to one side of the table who do you think gets screwed?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGastronomicus
3-0-G
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14014008 - 02/23/11 02:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The true nature of the bill is spelled out in the bill.  Duh.  And the fact that he didn't know the lying little fuck actually wasn't Koch actually goes to prove he doesn't know them.:facepalm:




Walker called him "David" in a familiar manner when he introduced himself. And if he doesn't know Koch then why did he talk to him about direct details for such a long time?


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14014020 - 02/23/11 02:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Because he doesn't expect to be lied to by scummy little punks?  Did you want him to call him Mr. Koch?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesixxy
infidel delux
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 117
Loc: behind the irony curtain
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14014077 - 02/23/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

there are real constitutional issues with  government employee unions since they are paid with tax payer funds and the unions leaders take the union dues (tax payer money) and give them to the politicians they choose which are usually big government nanny staters.

but right now while the country and states are withering because of poor fiscal policy, and these government workers still demanding more and more to shove into their fat spoiled mouths while everything else in the country deteriorates, well that is just such a perfect example of why the state of the union is shit right now.


--------------------
taste the effing rainbow

Edited by sixxy (02/23/11 02:41 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGastronomicus
3-0-G
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14014119 - 02/23/11 02:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Because he doesn't expect to be lied to by scummy little punks?  Did you want him to call him Mr. Koch?




Are you on a first name basis with everyone then?


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14014306 - 02/23/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

LOLOLOLOLOL



Here's the Fox News version of the Gallup poll. Notice anything... different?



:rofldrunk:

Fucking priceless. What a clown show. I haven't seen this much GOP fail on display since, well, 9/11. I would seriously rather play Chubby Bunny with razor blades than try to defend these guys.

God bless ya, Zappa.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14014405 - 02/23/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Because he doesn't expect to be lied to by scummy little punks?  Did you want him to call him Mr. Koch?




Are you on a first name basis with everyone then?



Yes.  Apparently Walker isn't on a "first name basis" with the real Mr. Koch, either, since he didn't know it wasn't him.

Fucking hell.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14014425 - 02/23/11 03:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
LOLOLOLOLOL



Here's the Fox News version of the Gallup poll. Notice anything... different?



:rofldrunk:

Fucking priceless. What a clown show. I haven't seen this much GOP fail on display since, well, 9/11. I would seriously rather play Chubby Bunny with razor blades than try to defend these guys.

God bless ya, Zappa.



I already said they made a mistake.  Clearly.  But:
1.  FoxNews isn't the GOP and
2.  Only a retarded monkey thinks the GOP was responsible for 9/11


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14014522 - 02/23/11 03:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm: at the poll question. Anyone who uses the term "collective bargaining rights" to refer to what is under contention is a joke. Actual "collective bargaining rights" are protected by the first amendment through freedom of speech and assembly.

more accurate:
Eliminating regulatory procedure that enables the monopoly power of public sector labor unions.

Ultimately, all government employees are subject to termination for convenience and have no right to be bargained with in good faith. Don't like it? Don't enter into an incestuous relationship with the government.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

Edited by d33p (02/23/11 03:39 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: sixxy]
    #14014533 - 02/23/11 03:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sixxy said:
there are real constitutional issues with  government employee unions since they are paid with tax payer funds and the unions leaders take the union dues (tax payer money) and give them to the politicians they choose which are usually big government nanny staters.

but right now while the country and states are withering because of poor fiscal policy, and these government workers still demanding more and more to shove into their fat spoiled mouths while everything else in the country deteriorates, well that is just such a perfect example of why the state of the union is shit right now.




Is it unconstitutional for a military contractor to donate to a congressman? What about any other corporation that receives government funding?

If not, why not?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14014628 - 02/23/11 03:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the way I see it, if the unions dont like the deal they're more than welcome
to stop working and leave wisconsin without a public workforce, kinda like
those democrats did, walked off the job... have they gotten their walking
papers yet? nope and they're still being paid not to work

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesixxy
infidel delux
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 117
Loc: behind the irony curtain
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14014715 - 02/23/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Quote:

sixxy said:
there are real constitutional issues with  government employee unions since they are paid with tax payer funds and the unions leaders take the union dues (tax payer money) and give them to the politicians they choose which are usually big government nanny staters.

but right now while the country and states are withering because of poor fiscal policy, and these government workers still demanding more and more to shove into their fat spoiled mouths while everything else in the country deteriorates, well that is just such a perfect example of why the state of the union is shit right now.




Is it unconstitutional for a military contractor to donate to a congressman? What about any other corporation that receives government funding?

If not, why not?





do you know the difference between dues and profit? public and private? government position and nongovernment position? union and nonunion? the individual and the collective?

from your earlier post it is clear youre very emotional on this matter. past run ins with ideological zealots makes me understand I probably wont be able to reason with you and youll probably white knuckle grip your stance in the face of anything. so if you know the differences between the things I listed, you are capable of understanding the flaw in your question and the entirety of your stance when youre ready to.

may the winds be at your back.


--------------------
taste the effing rainbow

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: sixxy]
    #14014785 - 02/23/11 04:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

do you know the difference between dues and profit? public and private? government position and nongovernment position? union and nonunion? the individual and the collective?




Settle down. You made no such distinctions.

Quote:

there are real constitutional issues with  government employee unions since they are paid with tax payer funds and the unions leaders take the union dues (tax payer money) and give them to the politicians they choose which are usually big government nanny staters.




Not particularly nuanced. Mind you, I completely understand what you're getting at; but you lose me when you claim that this is a situation unique to public unions.

How about this:

Quote:

there are real constitutional issues with arms manufacturers since they are paid with tax payer funds and their lobbyists take their profits (tax payer money) and give them to the politicians they choose which usually vote for expensive defense contracts.




In fact, you can gin up politician->individual->politician loop for just about anything if you want to; prison wardens, road crews, Medicare doctors, etc etc etc.

Again, the only thing I disagree with is that the only loop that is Constitutionally abhorrent is the one that involves public employee unions. It reminds me of the early-2000s argument that "double taxation", which happens every time you pay sales tax with your after-tax income, is outrageous when it involves stock dividends.

May the scales fall from your eyes.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: sixxy]
    #14015055 - 02/23/11 05:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sixxy said:
but right now while the country and states are withering because of poor fiscal policy, and these government workers still demanding more and more to shove into their fat spoiled mouths while everything else in the country deteriorates, well that is just such a perfect example of why the state of the union is shit right now.




Also, I really want to get pissed off over this, but there is a strong possibility you're simply ignorant.

So let's get one thing straight.

Are you aware that the unions have already unconditionally agreed to 100% of the benefit cuts and healthcare premium increases that the governor demanded? They've given up everything he asked. When you say that they are demanding more, when they have in fact made significant concessions, you are either lying or deeply misinformed. Which is it?

The ONLY point of contention is that the Governor wants to kill the union. He's already said in no uncertain terms that he doesn't care how much they give up; this isn't about the budget. This is about the union and how he wants it to die.

For christ's sake, he told 'David Koch' that he motivated his staff with the story of Ronald Reagan breaking up the air traffic controllers' union (which actually went on strike first, but whatever). HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE BUDGET.

Say it with me: HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE BUDGET. He blew the big gaping hole in it with his corporate tax cuts, after all.

Now, let's continue the discussion about how the unions are the headstrong bully here...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14015135 - 02/23/11 05:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Good fucking zappa it is 100% about the budget.  Today's budget and all of tommorow's budgets.  If you don't think collective bargaining by government employees isn't about money you just don't think.

Do you know who else was against government employees unionizing?  FDR.  You could look it up.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesixxy
infidel delux
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 117
Loc: behind the irony curtain
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14017059 - 02/23/11 10:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:

Not particularly nuanced. Mind you, I completely understand what you're getting at; but you lose me when you claim that this is a situation unique to public unions.




then you dont know what Im talking about. when the government employee unions hustle for benifits that means our taxes will eventually have to go up. it means government grows, it means the individual is held hostage since these unions dont have to negotiate or even produce with or for the people who actually pay them. People in unions are forced to pay dues and have no say or opt out of the political use it is put twards. It means union leaders take their members money, to keep nanny staters in office who then take our money at gun point to pay for their codependant relationship.

Now, if you don’t see a huge difference with that and a private company who does some government contracts (and I challenge you to look up the political contributions they make, both democrats and republicans get some) taking some of the profits they earned by producing, then I cant make you understand


--------------------
taste the effing rainbow

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesixxy
infidel delux
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 117
Loc: behind the irony curtain
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14017084 - 02/23/11 10:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Quote:

sixxy said:
but right now while the country and states are withering because of poor fiscal policy, and these government workers still demanding more and more to shove into their fat spoiled mouths while everything else in the country deteriorates, well that is just such a perfect example of why the state of the union is shit right now.




Also, I really want to get pissed off over this, but there is a strong possibility you're simply ignorant.

So let's get one thing straight.

Are you aware that the unions have already unconditionally agreed to 100% of the benefit cuts and healthcare premium increases that the governor demanded? They've given up everything he asked. When you say that they are demanding more, when they have in fact made significant concessions, you are either lying or deeply misinformed. Which is it?




clearly you havent been watching actual footage of the protesters.


Quote:

The ONLY point of contention is that the Governor wants to kill the union. He's already said in no uncertain terms that he doesn't care how much they give up; this isn't about the budget. This is about the union and how he wants it to die.




awesome. is it weird if I think that is hot?


--------------------
taste the effing rainbow

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: sixxy]
    #14018773 - 02/24/11 08:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Jimbotron also falls into the trap of thinking that union equals member.  It does not.  That is why the unions are so afraid of requiring regular votes to continue, automatic dues deductions and the right to work at a job without being compelled to join a union. 

The union leaders do not really care about the union members, the taxpayer or the children.  They care about themselves.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14020205 - 02/24/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I keep seeing people conflate "collective bargaining" with "lobbying" and it makes no fucking sense at all. Walker must not allow unions to negotiate because they give money to Democrats? Oooookay... does not compute, does not belong in a budget bill. He's asked for concessions, the unions have made them, the only sticking point here is Walker's pathetic Reagan fanboy complex.

Furthermore, if that's the new standard for who gets rights and who doesn't, "corporate personhood" really ought to be on the chopping block as well, because last time I checked they spend a lot more money than unions.

Also, Zappa, Shep Smith spilled the beans:



They want to break the union to hurt the Democrats. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. FUCKING SHEP SMITH ON FOX NEWS KNOWS IT. The look on Juan Williams' face says it all. He looks like he wishes he had some of those runway traffic director light stick things to make an 'X' with.

Why do you continue to pretend that there are no political considerations whatsoever here? It's pathetic. Shit, I mean, somebody puts in a water fountain somewhere, there's probably a political consideration.

Edited by jimbotron (02/24/11 02:19 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: sixxy]
    #14020270 - 02/24/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sixxy said:
clearly you havent been watching actual footage of the protesters.




I have no earthly idea what this means.

The governor wants to cut their pensions and raise their health premiums. The union leadership has agreed to both, as have the members, in every news report I've seen (and if you really want to disagree with me, I will find you footage of union members saying that they're perfectly fine with the cuts).

http://www.danagoldstein.net/dana_goldstein/2011/02/reality-check-wisconsin-unions-have-already-agreed-to-major-concessions.html

Quote:

Earlier Friday, Marty Beil, head of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, said his members would agree to pay more of their pension contributions and health insurance benefits as Walker is demanding. But Beil said his union would never agree to give up decades-old bargaining rights.

Beil's union is part of AFSCME, the largest state and local employee union in Wisconsin, which represents 68,000 workers for the state, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County and other municipalities. An AFSCME spokesman said Beil was speaking for all the group's union locals in the state.

"We are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help bring our state's budget into balance, but we will not be denied our God-given right to join a real union . . .  we will not - I repeat we will not - be denied our rights to collectively bargain," Beil said in a statement.

Mary Bell, the president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the state's largest teachers union, said her group also would make the financial concessions to keep its bargaining rights.

"This is not about money," Bell said in a phone conference. "We understand the need to sacrifice."




Are you calling the union presidents liars, or are you calling me a liar, or do you just not even understand what I'm trying to communicate to you? I can't make any sense of your dismissive comments.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: jimbotron]
    #14020313 - 02/24/11 02:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Of course it's political.  Do you even know what that word means?  Politics is conflict resolution.  The conflict here is between taxpayers and the public employees.  I'm a taxpayer.  I want to pay less.  When the negotiators are bought off by one side that represents only them at the table what happens to the taxpayer?

I don't give two shits what Shep Smith or Juan Williams thinks.  Private sector unions have already done an admirable job of pretty much eliminating themselves by destroying the companies that are infested with them.  Public sector unions do not have that danger.  Government cannot be made obsolete or uncompetitive.

I don't believe I have seen anyone conflate collective bargaining with lobbying.  Certainly not me.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushyHobo
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 45
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Walker-ing over a cliff [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14051097 - 03/01/11 08:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Government cannot be made obsolete or uncompetitive.





Too true.  Except when we get true E-Democracy.  I read this thing once.  It's gonna change everything.  Sounds like a utopia to me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Common Purpose - the post democratic society. Visionary Tools 363 0 06/21/08 08:15 AM
by Visionary Tools
* Do Republican Politicians Deserve To Be Held To a Higher Standard?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Madtowntripper 7,920 114 04/24/08 10:10 PM
by Daishi
* Sarah Palin is an amazing politician
( 1 2 3 4 ... 19 20 )
Phred 17,236 382 10/18/08 05:33 PM
by zappaisgod
* Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
TheHateCamel 5,173 70 09/28/06 10:39 PM
by Economist
* Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Phred 7,980 97 10/17/08 01:18 AM
by riceandpeas
* Democratic Hypocrisy
( 1 2 all )
SirTripAlot 2,431 27 01/23/08 09:25 PM
by SirTripAlot
* Hawkish Democrat Calls for Iraq Pullout
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
cateyes 7,845 80 11/23/05 12:16 AM
by Alex213
* Democrats Drop Troop Pullout Dates From Iraq Bill
( 1 2 all )
lonestar2004 3,300 20 05/23/07 08:21 PM
by TGRR

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,601 topic views. 3 members, 1 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.