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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
E = MC^2 Found by Intuition?
    #14009332 - 02/22/11 07:16 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

So Ive been trying to figure this out for awhile now. Did einstein really just use intuition to figure out this famous equation?

How did he logically figure it out other then what he believed in his own mind from relativity? How do we find equations like it?

If anyone here can explain how he figured out, it would be much appreciated because I believe his thought process can link quantum mechanics with relativity in the proper way. This will also give us a better explanation then the Copenhagen interpretation.

I need to either understand completely where and how he pulled this out of his ass, or how he has proved it other then in practicle terms.

I believe there is no mathematical explanation of relativity. Did this come to him in his mind? If that is true.. then why couldnt he come up with a better interpretation of quantum mechanics? He obviously understood that mass in energy and takes time in shooting there signals. I need to understand this.

If this is fully understood I believe this will prove that He, indeed does not throw dice.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil] * 1
    #14009927 - 02/22/11 08:50 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

No, he did not find it by intuition alone.  He used intuition to help guide his problem solving techniques, and then derived the formula using postulates and mathematics.

Its pretty simple to derive using algebra.  You consider conservation of energy, conservation of momentum and also postulate that light has momentum.  Relativity is a very mathematical theory, and general relativity can be quite daunting.  But special relativity requires only basic algebra and physics knowledge to work through.

Edited by DieCommie (02/22/11 08:57 PM)

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14009954 - 02/22/11 08:55 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

The only thing that I see is he understood how time and space worked based on a few seperate questioms he asked himself over and over again.

It seems like he came up with this by intuition alone, obviously his intuition was spatial and therefor physical.

His main thought experiment was just an observation of relativity and created it from that using a new Newtonian equation.

What I want to know is how he understood this on a physical,spatial level.

I fortunately see relativity in a spatial reconstruction and I dont see how he didn't come up with the ability to see quantum mechanics and tie it with his theory of relativity.

He debated it with Bohr over and over again. Why didn't he come to this conclusion?

Did he not have enough evidence at the current time?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14009972 - 02/22/11 08:58 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Im not sure you have that quite right...

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14009997 - 02/22/11 09:04 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Uh... Relativity implies there is less mass in movement then standing still. Which would be the change in the Newtonian equation and indirectly results in E=MC^2.

Am I believing this right, He did all this by understanding relativity in relative motion?

I don't see how he didn't do more research on quantum mechanics then. Its obvious that relativity and quantum mechanics have things in common. Its just our ignorance that prevents us from understanding it.

But Einstein went past or ignorance through intuition. I do not understand why this is the result of his work. Did he give up? Did he not have enough evidence? Did he not do as much thinking as in his golden years?

I don't understand why.

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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14009998 - 02/22/11 09:04 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Oh no not again


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010011 - 02/22/11 09:06 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Okay, Your constant closed mindedness and complete lack of respect of any idea other then your own has enforced me to put you on ignore.

Come back when your not a blight on humanity.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010022 - 02/22/11 09:08 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Relativity and Quantum Mechanics mesh just fine ala the Dirac Equation.  This came out long ago, during Einstein's time but he just ignored it and refused to consider in his stubborn older age.  Just because he is Einstein doesnt mean he is always right.  It is gravity and quantum mechanics that dont mix, and gravity is best explained with general relativity.

The ideas that prompted relativity come from electromagnetism.  It is in the formalism of classical electromagnetism that you can see the need for relativity, and many physicists were developing similar ideas at the time (like lorentz and poincare).

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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14010044 - 02/22/11 09:12 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

:laugh2: I managed to get ignored my janamil! I think he's the first user ever to ignore me. Dude has some interesting things to say, but rambles on incessantly like a maniac.:shrug:


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010060 - 02/22/11 09:14 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Thank you for that. Ill look at that equation.

Einstein was the one of the only ones that used his imagination and intuition to understand physics and one of the best scientists to date from his obvious "out of ass" intuition that no one else understood.

The key to understanding more, is to understand how these people understood what they understood.

It makes more sense that way though. Electromagnetism is what allows us to understand energy vs mass. They are one and the same, yet only see by observations. Once an observation is seen, it is set. This implies that we we see, is not what is real.

This is obviously on a minute scale, but this would go into understanding schulder (SP) equation of the cat. If the cat is in the box, and someone flips a coin. The chance of the cat being dead is 50/50 but when history remembers it, It only remembers the cat being alive or the cat being killed.

This implies that it is obviously on a very small scale, We are ripples in space and time.

Understanding how these work together I believe will also replace the theory of darkmatter and dark energy.

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Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010083 - 02/22/11 09:19 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Are you trying to get on his thought path?

Try looking up all his beliefs / what he followed.
I would think that would effect his way of thinking, IMO.

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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010102 - 02/22/11 09:23 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Oh no not again



Quote:

Janamil said:
Okay, Your constant closed mindedness and complete lack of respect of any idea other then your own has enforced me to put you on ignore.

Come back when your not a blight on humanity.



this was the entirety of our exchange and I got blocked and given a 0 shroom rating?

This guy is just plain weird and unstable.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010104 - 02/22/11 09:23 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Already have, I believe in the same way by default. So now Im trying to understand his specific thought patterns of relativity and in relation to time and matter.

I do not believe I will come up with anything solid until later in life, but I must come up with as much as possible before I learn mathematics. Otherwise I will be limited.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010112 - 02/22/11 09:24 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Math is like language, its best to learn it while you are young.

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?
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Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
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Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: giza]
    #14010120 - 02/22/11 09:26 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Einstein was right about god not playing dice

there is a balance to the universe and the real answer will be simple

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010139 - 02/22/11 09:28 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Yes, it is like language and like the english language this inhibits part of our brain of learning things we would not after understanding a universal way of thinking.

Our knowledge literally inhibits us.

"The only source of knowledge is experience." -Albert Einstein

I also believe he said something about the only thing that stops his learning is knowledge.

This is true on a biological level.

If all we learn are shortcuts, then all we will understand are shortcuts.

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Einstein was right about god not playing dice

there is a balance to the universe and the real answer will be simple




Exactly. If one cannot explain something in simple terms, one does not understand it fully.

Einstein quote, to lazy to get exact.

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010188 - 02/22/11 09:35 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Ugh, I didnt want this thread to die. I just want to know why he never tried to understand this huge concept. He already got the basis of it down.

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?
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Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
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Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010253 - 02/22/11 09:45 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

he did try, he couldn't get it.
When scientists first started to look into the subatomic world they had trouble accepting the chaotic and logic defying nature of their observations.

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010260 - 02/22/11 09:47 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Relativity explains the logic defying nature of.. it all. Of signals. He found the first limit of the universe. I was honestly just wondering if something stopped him, or if it has already happened and there is something I am missing.

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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: E = MC^2 Found by Intuition? [Re: Janamil]
    #14010319 - 02/22/11 09:55 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

No one can answer your question cause aint no one know shit about a dead mans perspective.

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