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Icelander
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If most people want to be in a position of power, why do most people want to be told what to do?
Because they are gutless and lazy and inept. Walter Middy lives.
Humans are corrupt and run their personal lives like a political campaign. They lie cheat and steal to get what they want.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14012769 - 02/23/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Lying and cheating ≠ stupid
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Icelander
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I didn't say it did. But most people don't have the moxie to become powerful people. Yet they wish they did. The fact is that we hire the exact type of bosses we want to rule us. Other wise we wouldn't and it's that simple. Unless you want to make the case that humans are so stupid that generation after generation they fall for the same stupid lies.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14012816 - 02/23/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Honestly yeah, I would make that case that humans are THAT stupid.
I mean, surely you've talked to other humans, and if you've done that it should be pretty obvious that a lot of people don't think for themselves.
edit: I believe you are simplifying it too much. While, yes, it does essentially come down to a vote, it's not like we can vote for ANYONE that we want, we are given literally 2 choices. And those two choices are narrowed down by a myriad of factors, namely who has the egoism, drive, and cash flow to run a campaign.
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Edited by learningtofly (02/23/11 10:32 AM)
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Icelander
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While I do agree we are easily that stupid for the most part we are also a greedy selfish power hungry lot. Again we don't insist on severe punishment for the rich or powerful when they are caught breaking our trust. Think about that.
People can always vote independent or like myself not vote at all.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14012915 - 02/23/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: While I do agree we are easily that stupid for the most part we are also a greedy selfish power hungry lot. Again we don't insist on severe punishment for the rich or powerful when they are caught breaking our trust. Think about that.
Would you throw your best friend in jail? Laws are on the books against these kinds of people, they just get let off. I mean look at, for example, the FDA. Most of the people who are in charge of the FDA are also key shareholders and members of corporations that they are supposed to be investigating, so that's like asking "Hey would you throw yourself in jail?" People get outraged but nothing happens. Also you have to recognize that small groups of people are a lot more efficient than large groups for getting things done. Take a look at a bailout, lets say some company stands to make billions on something, and it would cost each individual tax payer like $20. It isn't worth it for that tax payer to take off work to go lobby for $20, but it's worth it for a company to lobby for the couple billion.
Quote:
People can always vote independent or like myself not vote at all.
Voting independent won't do anything at all, even if you got enough people to vote independent for a particular candidate, you still need to have all of the members of the senate or the house on your side.
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Icelander
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This sounds like a conspiracy. I don't think so. Basically people defend their candidate and all their wrong doings and vilify the other guy.
Check out the political forum and see it at work.
We support these shenanigans because we like them overall. Our complaints are directed against the so called opposition.
Think about this. How many people would really like to change their lifestyle if the govt insisted on honesty and fairness in daily life? Most people are on the take in some fashion or at least turning a blind eye to the negative effects of what they do in living.
If the country is polluted then the people are willing to have that so they can continue to do what they do. They may complain about their favorite spot being ruined but don't care a wit about whats happening elsewhere.
I can give a great example. There's a biologist for the Nature Conservancy who lives on a prime location in my town. He complains about the non native wildlife introduced into our area and the fact that the empty lots near his house are being broken up for sale and are now native wild grasses and wild flowers. While he won't acknowledge that he bought a empty field and built a really huge expensive house for just himself up there. He also owns cats and lets them run wild, killing off the native birds in the fields. This is how humans operate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14013403 - 02/23/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Which part sounds like a conspiracy?
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Icelander
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The politicians against the people.
Politicians are people and people are politicians.
If you are a kid playing baseball who do you choose to be on your team? Your friends and those who agree with who you are or the other guys?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14013836 - 02/23/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Of course politicians are people, but not all people have the same interests in mind.
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Icelander
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Nor do all politicians.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14013930 - 02/23/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, not all politicians think exactly the same, but that does not mean that none of them think the same.
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Icelander
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same for people
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14014037 - 02/23/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I never said all people think the same, I said a lot of them do.
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Icelander
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IMO basically everyone thinks the same. The variations are minor in the big picture.
Let's take all the folk here as an example. We mostly all think alike and in the same way Obama and Bush think alike but are considered vastly different.
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14014246 - 02/23/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Of course most people on the Shroomery think alike, they are all people who have access to the internet, an interest in psychedelics, and an interest in internet forums. But to say that we think the same way as, lets say, my grandparents, is pretty nuts. I mean sure we may have basic similarities like: I like food, shelter, sex (well some don't), fun, etc but once you get beyond those things I would say that people can be quite different. There are minor variations in thought but these minor variations have huge consequences.
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Icelander
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What huge consequences? Weren't you just stating in another thread that we all seem to be unaware of who and what we are as emotional beings.
My grandpa held the same basic beliefs as myself and my dad. I may be more liberal but I have the same power drives and corruption and basic dishonesty that they had.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/23/11 03:06 PM)
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learningtofly
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Re: Reform: Politics [Re: Icelander]
#14014417 - 02/23/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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idk, i know i stated i don't know what the hell i'm talking about, which explains why a lot of my posts are inconsistent; i have trouble maintaining paradigms.
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Icelander
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I feel your pain. 
I genuinely enjoy your posts and usually think they are well thought out even when I don't agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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