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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: circastes]
    #13999266 - 02/21/11 01:18 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Life is not supposed to be an ordeal. Death is just a concept. Possibly, due to conditioning or due to the power of fear, wonder and awe focused so intensely in one area, it most likely envokes archetypes from the collective unconscious, such as the great lonely cold journey, the wanderer, making death feel sublime and thus real. But I think under that, there is nothing physical there to die in the first place. What you are, is not physical, and thus has nothing to do with any of this really.

New problem: bordom in eternity.




New solution: Value eternity by making something seem at stake. Life. All of the effort behind the creation of now. All of the effort behind the creation of the future.

It's at stake with the created idea of death.

The idea of death cannot be truly believed, unless of course, we forget we are eternal.

So there arises another idea: Birth. The end and beginning of experience. The closest thing to what actual death.

A place from which the artist can go in order to take it all in for the first time. Birth isolates the sum of your experiences.

But do not fear birth! It is still you who is born, even without you remembering so! Proof: Though a dream requires you to forget your entire life for you to accept that you're suddenly racing a go-cart down Mount Everest with your next door neighbor, it is still you witnessing the dream. When you wake up, the experience is yours to remember. And it was you that went through it. It works on a bigger scale. Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a DREAM! You ever notice that your dreams end when you die?

You know that saying, there is nothing to fear? There isn't. Fear is the undesirability of a future unknown. But fear is for fun. Literally, it counter-acts boredom. The problem is that if you live in fear of death, you have taken your own idea and used it for the wrong purpose. The purpose was to increase the love of life, because it was seemingly at stake. But the love of life is ultimately what its about.

I'll wrap it up with the summary of my favorite short story.

The story is about Love and Knowledge chilling on this island. Knowledge warns Love that the island is slowly but surely sinking, and that it's built a boat and is about to leave, but the Love says it will stay with the island for as long as it's their because it adores the island. So Knowledge is like whatever, fuck you, and gets in a boat and leaves. (I don't think they worded it like that in the actual story.) So eventually the island is basically gone and the Love is almost drowning, and suddenly an old woman shows up in a boat and waves for her to get in. They cross the waters in silence. They get to shore safely and where Knowledge is, and the woman leaves the boat and walks off.

"Who was that?" The Love asked the Knowledge
"That was time." The Knowledge replied
"Why did she save me?" The Love asked
"Because only time knows the true value of love." The knowledge smiled.

Also remember, what's important is not the artist, but the painting, the painting made the artist famous, not the other way around, so with that my friends, I say paint your life EXACTLY the way you envision it.


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

Edited by beatnicknick (02/21/11 03:59 AM)

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InvisibleCups
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: circastes]
    #13999295 - 02/21/11 01:30 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

What's scary about the big picture is that when you look in the reflection, it's just us, it's the self, the potential, AKA nothing. Freedom to go wherever. Nothing stable. That can be scary. But when you look at the big picture that came from the nothing, you realize how beautiful it is. The happiness, the sadness, the love, the fear, it's beautiful. It all exists inside the artist's painting. The painting continues to paint itself, and the artist lives within the painting. Yes, the artist may be nothing. But the painting is so much. Think about how much is going on right now, through out the entire world, in this very breath, in this very beat of your heart. Fireworks are going off, people are falling in love, people are exploring, creating, and it's all just so alive. As the Beatles said, it's all too much. Sure, we may ultimately be nothing but the shapeless, colorless, formless artist we come from. But just look at what we made, and it's making itself. It's colors are dazzling, its sounds are awe inspiring, it's just simply the most beautiful work of art, and we're all inside of it, most of us completely unaware that the paint we are comprised of is what we are, and since the paint never existed we are the nothing, the potential, the artist. All of a sudden being the artist isn't so scary, when you stop looking in the reflection of nothing, and instead look at the painting of everything.





^^^I don't necessarily disagree with you.  But to achieve that level of perspective is a feat that is rare if it's even possible. 

Also, if we're making a painting don't forget the the flipside to the clouds and butterflies.













The answer has to include all of it.  ALL of it.


--------------------
What's up everybody?!

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: Cups]
    #13999314 - 02/21/11 01:39 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Agreed, but the old saying goes something like "The song of life, with it's high and it's low notes, is still altogether a beautiful song."


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

Edited by beatnicknick (02/21/11 01:46 AM)

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: beatnicknick]
    #13999520 - 02/21/11 03:01 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

I'm pretty sure all our evils are a production not of a God's plan or a result of an indifferent universe, but merely a creation of free will. Free will has a part to play, and it appears, on this planet, to be playing the part of an ambivalent mess.

We were not anticipated by nature, because how can you anticipate free will? Perhaps THAT is why the universe IS appearingly indifferent - because it could never know what we want. Or, free will could be its nature since in its most complex form, it is a free-willed being, and free will, over a long enough timeline, is indifferent, being essentially arbitrary.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: beatnicknick]
    #13999612 - 02/21/11 04:21 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Would realizing that you are not really alone help?

It is true. We are all connected here, even if not in physical presence.

Many people have to go a great deal out of thier way to be alone.

If you are referring to the absence of a significant other, that is simply primal instinct. We are built to feel lonely so that we may carry on the generations.

I think that our DNA is programmed with the realization that the only way for it to live on is by reproducing.  I would bet you could find that exact gene and turn it off even, effectively neutralizing lonliness.

That is obviously not an option at this point. So I consider the possibility of perspective as an influence to lonliness. Your outlook on life in general can affect how you feel. This outlook or perspective is going to be directly correlated with your life experiences, your culture, family, friends, everyone play a part as long as you allow it.

Like how your mother would hint at being a grandma, or your buddy bragging about his exploits. Some people may even look down on you for being single. In reality non of this matters. These are all preconceived and cultivated notions that have been embedded around you. It's ultimately up to you how you allow it to affect you, just by your outlook.

I have been single for a few years now, and honestly I did feel lonely at 1st. As time went on the lonliness lessened. Time is the best cure.

Now I don't feel lonely at all, only horny :wink:

Someone is telling me that time can even cure that.

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: teknix] * 1
    #13999635 - 02/21/11 04:49 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Lol, nice post.

DO NOT LET TIME MAKE YOU UNHORNY! BANG BEFORE YOUR TOO SAGGY! :smile:


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: beatnicknick]
    #13999743 - 02/21/11 07:03 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

beatnicknick said:
Agreed, but the old saying goes something like "The song of life, with it's high and it's low notes, is still altogether a beautiful song."





It's only beautiful when youre in the comfortable beautiful part. Put yourself in the concentration camp and you will have a much harder time enjoying your little song and appreciating it's beauty.

There is no reason to say it's a beautiful song anymore than it's a horrific song.  Well actually there is a reason and Cups has been talking about it in depth here. But it's all in the mind.  Life just is. However our mental stability  may rest on believing it is beautiful.

Edited by Icelander (02/21/11 07:06 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: teknix]
    #13999748 - 02/21/11 07:07 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Time cures everything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineauxiliary
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: Icelander]
    #14000859 - 02/21/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Time cures everything.



Time is but a tool for us to make things better. Death cures everything.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: auxiliary]
    #14001088 - 02/21/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

That's what I meant. Given enough time you will be dead and it won't be a problem.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: Icelander]
    #14005356 - 02/22/11 01:44 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

So with this sort of mindset, how do you deal with reality? Just sort of not hopeful and not hopeless either? You're just kind of like, it is what it is, nothing more nothing less?

And when life is just horribly bad, where do you turn? Just yourself?


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: beatnicknick]
    #14007073 - 02/22/11 12:09 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I think some people eventually come to a point where they realize that everyone is but a mere reflection of a certain part of themselves, which implies that eternal loneliness is inescapable. You're on your own from here, literally... It's a tough path.


--------------------
^v^

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: foliocb]
    #14007132 - 02/22/11 12:19 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Yeah that's what I see.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: Icelander]
    #14007496 - 02/22/11 01:24 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Don Juan was right again when he said that a warrior could not avoid pain and grief but only the indulging in them.

At that moment my sadness was uncontainable. I could not stand to say goodbye to those who had shared with me the turns of my fate.
I told don Juan and don Genaro that I had made a pact with someone to die together and that my spirit could not bear to leave alone.

"We are all alone, Wronguys," don Genaro said softly. "That's our condition."
I felt in my throat the anguish of my passion for life and for those close to me;

I refused to say good-by to them.

"We are alone," don Juan said. "But to die alone is not to die in loneliness."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A warrior acknowledges his pain but he doesn't indulge in it," don Juan said.

"Thus the mood of a warrior who enters into the unknown is not one of sadness;

on the contrary, he's joyful because he feels humbled by his great fortune, confident that his spirit is impeccable, and above all, fully aware of his efficiency.
A warrior's joyfulness comes from having accepted his fate, and from having truthfully assessed what lies ahead of him."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"may grief fall away like leaves from the trees"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the way that the sorcerers say goodnight to the world



--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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OfflineRaliegh
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: Cups]
    #14007865 - 02/22/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Quote:


btw, aside from songs, mantras, philosophies, etc that help you cope with loneliness,

the best thang, in my opinion, is staying busy. Find a hobby. it's hard to feel lonely when you're doing something productive and enjoyable.




Coping with a problem doesn't remove the problem.

Loneliness is a joke IMO.  Everyone is alone all the time period.  You can distract yourself from this with friends and hobbies, but it doesn't change actually change the fact.

When the gun is pointed at your head it's just you.




Why remove the problem? It exists so you can 'cope' and be happy. You understand.

Quote:

the bizzle said:

???

coping doesnt need to remove a problem. It's a fact of life that loneliness occurs.

if loneliness doesn't bother you, then in the context that i meant it, you must be coping quite well.

i'm not entirely sure what you thought i meant by coping,


but my general point was that it's more about shifting focus.

sometimes, people get painfully lonely

its not about changing the alleged fact that you are ultimately alone in the universe, it's about changing how it affects you

for example, death used to be one of the most frightening things i could think of... but now my perspective has changed, and i'm a lot happier

i don't see what you are finding fault with other than a misunderstanding

maybe it was the word "distraction"...

in a fight, being distracted could cost you... that's not what i'm talking about

it's more like when you have a broken bone in a fight, but instead of focusing on how less than ideal it is, or on how bad it hurts, you block it out and stay in the zone of doin thangs




I agree completely... Distracting yourself from the bad is the original REASON for the bad... So we can concentrate on right and enjoy it.

We are alone in this world, we are one... But this knowledge may or may not be swell understanding if you cannot decide and accept. I think if I were to actually have to live in a true state of loneliness (a real-world scenario... Trapped on an island for years) I would let this loneliness consume me. The emotion would take control...

But that is why we make company. You guys, anyone and everyone, keep this in check.

Quote:

Cups said:
Hey Bizzle,

What I thought you meant by "coping" is exactly what you said-

Quote:

btw, aside from songs, mantras, philosophies, etc that help you cope with loneliness,

the best thang, in my opinion, is staying busy. Find a hobby. it's hard to feel lonely when you're doing something productive and enjoyable.




All this is in IMO but it's true as far as I know.

As Icelander pointed out loneliness is an expression of death anxiety....the part involving that little voice in the back of all of our heads that we are alone.  We are, of course, scared of being alone so we try not to be.

All the things you list as "coping" skills can just as easily be labeled "distractions".  When distraction is sufficient, the fear is hidden.  When it's not, the fear emerges.

It is not true, however, to say that you become lonely...only that that you became aware of how lonely you are. 

All the emotional pairs work in this way- happy/sad, fear/safe etc.  Since the slightest thing can flip the coin what can be believed?

The answer is simple- Strip a man of everything he "has" and see what remains.  Take his possessions, kill his family, and drop him off in the wilderness alone.  He will feel fear, he will feel lonely, he will feel angry, he will feel sad. 

This is obviously the default state of the Ego.  :shrug:




Why do you feel that is the default state of the ego..? The default state of the ego is nonexistent... It is a constant 'battle' between what is right and wrong, so you can experience. It is not bad or good, it just loves. Why do you tell yourself the ego is bad? Because bad things occur? Confusion? You're labeling it... Blaming it for such. It does what is necessary, and one should love himself and his ego.

Quote:


but my general point was that it's more about shifting focus.




Society is about shifting focus.  Human civilization is about shifting focus.  Religion is about shifting focus.  Anything to shift the gaze away from the mirror because what looks back is scary as fuck.




What looks back is us. It is not scary unless you believe it so.


--------------------

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OfflineRaliegh
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: foliocb]
    #14007986 - 02/22/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I understand. Love to you all.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: the bizzle]
    #14008280 - 02/22/11 03:45 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
Don Juan was right again when he said that a warrior could not avoid pain and grief but only the indulging in them.

At that moment my sadness was uncontainable. I could not stand to say goodbye to those who had shared with me the turns of my fate.
I told don Juan and don Genaro that I had made a pact with someone to die together and that my spirit could not bear to leave alone.

"We are all alone, Wronguys," don Genaro said softly. "That's our condition."
I felt in my throat the anguish of my passion for life and for those close to me;

I refused to say good-by to them.

"We are alone," don Juan said. "But to die alone is not to die in loneliness."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A warrior acknowledges his pain but he doesn't indulge in it," don Juan said.

"Thus the mood of a warrior who enters into the unknown is not one of sadness;

on the contrary, he's joyful because he feels humbled by his great fortune, confident that his spirit is impeccable, and above all, fully aware of his efficiency.
A warrior's joyfulness comes from having accepted his fate, and from having truthfully assessed what lies ahead of him."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"may grief fall away like leaves from the trees"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the way that the sorcerers say goodnight to the world





:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleCups
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Re: How to get over the problem of being lonely [Re: the bizzle]
    #14010298 - 02/22/11 09:52 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Well hello again Bizzle,

I have to join Icelander here with a big :thumbup:

One of these days I'm going to have to read those books I guess...:smile:


--------------------
What's up everybody?!

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