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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1,726
Loc: Old Europe
warning! Your kratom is bunk!
    #1400488 - 03/22/03 01:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Apparently all kratom sold by ethnobotanical vendors are a rip off. Be careful with the material you may have in your possesion, it is most likely NOT kratom. Probably not dangerous, but it the bunk material has not yet been identified. Here is the TLC report from Daniel Siebert:

Quote:

Today (20 march 2002) I did thin layer chromatography of several samples of kratom and
mitragynine.

Jon Hanna provided me with reference samples of mitragynine picrate and
mitragynine ethane disulphonate, both of which had originally been obtained
from specialty chemical suppliers. Both reacted with Erlich's reagent to
produce pale purple spots on my TLC plates. Neither of these compounds are
entirely pure. The TLC profiles of both samples were almost identical. Both
produced two matching spots: one prominent spot (presumably mitragynine )
and one smaller spot. The mitragynine ethane disulphonate also produced a
third spot that was smaller than the other two. I was also able to visualize
the compounds using UV light. The larger spot absorbs short wave UV light.
The smaller spots fluoresce bright yellow under long wave UV light.
Apparently mitragynine is reasonably stable, since the profile of the
fourteen year old mitragynine ethane disulphonate was not substantially
different than that of the recently procured mitragynine picrate.

I also examined "kratom acetate" sold by Ethnogarden and leaves sent to me
from France by Bruno. These leaves are allegedly from Myanmar (Burma). The
"kratom acetate" was supposedly isolated from leaves obtained from the same
source. Neither of these produced any visible indole spots on the plates
when sprayed with Erlich's reagent. And when exposed to UV light, there were
no spots corresponding to those in the reference standards. It is very clear
that these do not contain mitragynine. This is not particularly surprising
since the morphology of the leaves indicates that they are not Mitragyna
speciosa.

I also analyzed leaves grown by Lee Rathbun, Torsten Wiedemann, and Jim
Bauml. And also leaves obtained from Ben Kamm (he obtained these from Rob
Montgomery who obtained them from Thailand) and some leaves from an "unknown
source" that were sent to me by Will Beifuss (probably the same as the
leaves from Ben Kamm). All of these produced spots that appear identical to
the reference standards. In the case of the relatively fresh leaves obtained
from Lee, Torsten, and Jim, a green chlorophyll spot largely obscures the
mitragynine spot, making it difficult to see. I was not able to see this
clearly until I examined the chromatograms under UV light and compared them
with the reference standards.




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Anonymous

Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #1400555 - 03/22/03 01:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm...many have reported it 'active', so that IS very interesting :smile:

Has anyone tried growing kratom from the seeds offered on ethnogarden?


Edited by Paranormal (03/22/03 01:37 PM)


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1,726
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Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Organic]
    #1400650 - 03/22/03 02:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It is active. I tried 5 grams of leaves from an european vendor, same wholesaler. I simmered for five minutes in water with some lemonand the brew was really bitter, you could taste it was rich in alkaloids. Felt like an opiate thing getting started, but I became strangely stimulated after a while. Reading a book wasn?t too comfortable, so I lit a spliff and watched some tv instead. Those effects where pretty mild, but I dont think it was entierly placebo. I was going to take the other 5 grams with some harmala, suprised nobody seems to have tried that already. Now I'm glad I didn?t.


Edited by Young_but_cool (03/22/03 02:27 PM)


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #1405189 - 03/24/03 08:16 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"Apparently all kratom sold by ethnobotanical vendors are a rip off. Be careful with the material you may have in your possesion, it is most likely NOT kratom."

it seems to me that the exact opposite is supported by your quote. out of the various samples, only 2 did not appear to be active and both of those are from the same source. then the quote goes on to say that a number of other samples DID appear active. or am i reading it wrong?


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Offlineneuro
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 6,617
Loc: Rigel 7
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Bilge]
    #1405223 - 03/24/03 08:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

He wasn't contradicting, but somewhat short sighted...

It seems too broad to say all ethnosuppliers are selling bunk Kratom. Since ethnogarden was the only supplier listed.

Ethnogarden's (a commercial supplier i presume) when analyzed by Thin Layer chromatography against a known standard seemed that their Kratom Acetate (or what should be mitragynine acetate) was infact not mitragynine acetate, and same with their supposed Kratom leaves.

Then the rest of the samples after that were acquired by private individuals (i presume) and did turn out to be what they said they were again by TLC analyzation compared to a standard of various mitragynine salts.


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: neuro]
    #1405286 - 03/24/03 08:49 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

According to Torsten Wiederman, and he should know, all commercial kratom leaves comes from the same wholesaler, Bruno in France. This is not the case with live plants, they are the real thing, at least the rifat and craig clones. But all the "Burma stuff" is bunk, and that batch makes up for all kratom (dried leaves and extracts)available today. There are no suppliers who offers dried material from the above clones yet.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #1405337 - 03/24/03 09:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That clears it up then.


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Offlinecomario2
amateur

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,352
Loc: between places
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #1407522 - 03/25/03 05:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

i didn't think daniel siebert was still around, is he?


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1,726
Loc: Old Europe
Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: comario2]
    #1408079 - 03/25/03 09:25 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Did he ever leave scene? Wasn't aware of that. He founded The Salvia Divinorum Observer as late as last month.


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: warning! Your kratom is bunk! [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #1408080 - 03/25/03 09:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yes, daniel is still around.


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