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OfflineXpatriot
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 149
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Conformity, perception, happiness * 1
    #14003893 - 02/21/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

As is known, inside your head you build a world, a model of the actual world. How this world correlates with reality determines your experiences, your viewpoints, and alot of other things. So what happens when you see outside yourself? Is this ego death? When for just a second you think something and you feel your thought get wider, your mind grows, you see outside your social construct. What happens if you keep doing this, become obsessed with it? Is it worth it?

If you did it enough, likely your interactions with others would suffer. Ive often thought to myself that absolute conformity would make me the happiest. For if I could conform to such a high degree, I could relate to the most amount of people the deepest....leading to happiness? What merit is there in seeing outside of society? It just makes you feel smart and unique, when in reality it doesn't seem to bring much more happiness, that is of course if society isn't polluting your mind to a high degree.

Ive started to manipulate myself as such, trying to get in line with others and I believe it is working. Changing my reality, stopping reading philosophy and things which open your mind has set me at ease. Constricting my perspective leads to acceptance within a community and that facilitates happiness, there is no use in finding truth if it sets you alone.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14003996 - 02/21/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Icelander]
    #14004066 - 02/21/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

there is no use in finding truth if it sets you alone.

Why not?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Kickle]
    #14004153 - 02/21/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

cause we are social animals.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Icelander]
    #14004205 - 02/21/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We use solitary as a form of punishment and I'm pretty sure the idea has utility.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Kickle]
    #14004343 - 02/21/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Eventually, unless you are one in a million you break down.

I once read about a guy who purposefully stranded himself on a south pacific island that was uninhabited.  He only came off when the govt who owned the island forced him off and he did not do well in the social environment.  He was a very neat guy actually and intelligent and articulate.  He wanted nothing to do with humanity or should I say he wasn't interested.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14004429 - 02/21/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i think this song is highly relevant to this thread, but I can't explain why



--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14005430 - 02/22/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

interesting post.

Now, you are assuming that conformity, although pleasurable in the short run(while in another presence) does not have negative repercussion in the long run. Say for example you conform to others and get married. You find 5 years down the road that you hate waking up beside this person. My question is, conformity is great in the moment, however, when it comes to your private life(which is way more important and an influence on your happiness than your public life) conformity can have negative repercussion.

Sure conformity works great in schools and work environments....but does it work when it comes to the other, more important matters?

You are a social being, but social interactions are far more complex than group interactions. intimacy is a social interaction, key to your being, are you willing to bring group interactions into your decisions, without thinking about it further than your immidiate happiness within that group?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Invisibleamuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14006281 - 02/22/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Xpatriot said:
As is known, inside your head you build a world, a model of the actual world. How this world correlates with reality determines your experiences, your viewpoints, and alot of other things. So what happens when you see outside yourself? Is this ego death? When for just a second you think something and you feel your thought get wider, your mind grows, you see outside your social construct. What happens if you keep doing this, become obsessed with it? Is it worth it?

If you did it enough, likely your interactions with others would suffer. Ive often thought to myself that absolute conformity would make me the happiest. For if I could conform to such a high degree, I could relate to the most amount of people the deepest....leading to happiness? What merit is there in seeing outside of society? It just makes you feel smart and unique, when in reality it doesn't seem to bring much more happiness, that is of course if society isn't polluting your mind to a high degree.

Ive started to manipulate myself as such, trying to get in line with others and I believe it is working. Changing my reality, stopping reading philosophy and things which open your mind has set me at ease. Constricting my perspective leads to acceptance within a community and that facilitates happiness, there is no use in finding truth if it sets you alone.




I don't see why philosophy, e.g. trying to think outside of the model you already have in your mind, would alienate you from others except if it was specifically used/thought of as a way to escape from others, and from consensual reality. Maybe your experience tells something about your original motives for exploring philosophy rather than about philosophy/"thinking outside the box" per se?

You mention meditating on "ego death", and the ego is a social creation more than anything. The way "ego death" is often referred to, it has some subtle and sometimes not so subtle associations with various forms of escapism. I'm not saying this is necessarily so, it's a concept used for many different purposes, by people from different schools of thought, etc. But in a good deal of it's casual use I would say there is some sort of association of escape from various problems in the use of the term. So if this was in any way comparable to your pathways of thought, perhaps your experience with philosophy is due to the particular brand of philosophy that you chose to engage with.

I don't know you of course, so I may be addressing my own ideas, not yours. If so, sorry. :thebaron:


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OfflineNoOneImportant
Just a pawn in the game
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/07/09
Posts: 424
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Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14006514 - 02/22/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

While I'll agree that being outside the norm can set you apart from society and make you feel alienated, it is all in how you interpret it. 
Quote:

Xpatriot said:
As is known, inside your head you build a world, a model of the actual world. How this world correlates with reality determines your experiences, your viewpoints, and alot of other things.




So, you have built a model of the world in which you feel that expanding your mind makes you alone?  Instead of conforming with the people, wouldn't it be better to change your viewpoint or model so that you interpret your raised understanding of the world and culture not as separating you from others, but rather bringing you closer?  It seems you don't have to change the whole model of thinking, but rather tweak some of the x's and y's to a point that the end result is more of a connectedness to the world and culture.

I read a lot of books on philosophy, metaphysics, spirituality and so on.  By reading these, yes it does make me kind of feel alienated from culture, but from that aloneness comes a great deal of joy in being able to chose which parts of culture and the world I wish to engage in, not just blindly going with the rest of the people.  It is all a matter of how it is interpreted.  Any point can be argued, and any conclusion can be reached, as long as the mind is malleable enough but adjust.


--------------------
Take when in need.  Give when you can.


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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: Xpatriot]
    #14007576 - 02/22/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Xpatriot said:

Ive often thought to myself that absolute conformity would make me the happiest. For if I could conform to such a high degree, I could relate to the most amount of people the deepest....leading to happiness?





I'll go ahead and prescribe you some Soma :smile:

http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html


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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Conformity, perception, happiness [Re: android313]
    #14007693 - 02/22/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Xpatriot said:

Ive often thought to myself that absolute conformity would make me the happiest. For if I could conform to such a high degree, I could relate to the most amount of people the deepest....leading to happiness?





that won't make you happy, it will only make you comfortable

playing it safe is easier, but sometimes in order to do something worthwhile you have to get out of your comfort zone


"if we're lost, how can we lose?"


i find i get the biggest thrill out of "being myself"... it's something i often get nervous or fearful about, but sometimes the results are amazing. It feels good to know that you have some power over defining what this very moment is. I choose to try to make the most of it

you only live once. Why be timid?  Could you imagine if Jimi Hendrix felt like he shouldn't play music or be himself because he wouldn't be accepted?


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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