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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14002412 - 02/21/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes I agree that Robin Hood had an obligation to help the poor but I then argued that what he did actually harmed the poor.

Did you read and understand my argument? I'm happy to answer questions but the answer to your questions has already been stated earlier in this thread.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14002428 - 02/21/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:

@ learningtofly

While it is useful to cite other philosophical arguments you must also be aware that there are very interesting counter arguments to a physical world. So it's fine if you believe in Sollipsism but don't say that it is the ABSOLUTE truth.

Check out Descartes, Hume, Berkeley on what they have to say about a physical world.

But let's not debate those arguments because people of far more experience and intelligence have been doing that for 1000's of years.

I'm interested in why you say that "Language necessitates other human beings"...

Let's start the topic off by considering the question; "do you ever talk to yourself?"


I wasn't arguing for solipsism, I was saying that what you were arguing amounts to solipsism.

Exactly which people have far more experience with the so-called ultimate reality than anyone else?

You misinterpreted what I meant by language necessitates other people. I didn't say that you can't talk to yourself using an already established language, what I said was that in order for there to be language at all, there needs to be other people. This is because a private language would be incoherent to whoever created it.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz] * 1
    #14002468 - 02/21/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There is this world, who needs a spiritual world?  It's pie in the sky the way most look at it imo.

No god, no spirit, just life to be lived.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14002499 - 02/21/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Yes I agree that Robin Hood had an obligation to help the poor but I then argued that what he did actually harmed the poor.

Did you read and understand my argument? I'm happy to answer questions but the answer to your questions has already been stated earlier in this thread.




You seem to think what Robin Hood did was theft, but what the rich stole from the peasants was not theft.  I think in both cases you could say it is theft, or simply say it is survival of the fittest.  I realize it is a fictional story, but although he may have harmed some of the poor, he may have enpowered some of the poor as well.

In the animal world, an animal is only entitled to keep its posseessions as long as it can hold onto them.  It makes no difference if Wolf Pack A did the work of killing an antelope.  If Wolf Pack B comes along and is able to fight and take it away from them they are entitled to it.  If Wolf Pack B doesn't have the intelligence and skills to stay dominant then they won't stay dominant. 

Do you think the king and all the royalty should own all the land just because they say so?


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14002602 - 02/21/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

@ learningtofly

you are assuming that other human beings exist... where is the proof for this?

@ Hippie Chick

I fail to see how stealing from someone who is stealing could be considered the right thing to do. We used to think it was right to murder the murderer but now that is changing across the world.

But i understand that if you believe that humans are only capable of acting like animals then you would think that anything is 'right'.

Are we just animals though? How can we answer this question?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14002664 - 02/21/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Durantz, are you even reading what I wrote? Language necessitates that other people exist otherwise language wouldn't make any sense (this is "proved" because a private language cannot exist)


--------------------


Edited by learningtofly (02/21/11 04:58 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14002682 - 02/21/11 05:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so"

What may be right to you is wrong to another.  How can we not be animals. Everything about us is animal. We eat, fuck, fart, shit, fight, think, respond, die, etc. as do all animals. The fact that our thinking and reasoning capacity is expanded is the same as another animals ability to run faster than us.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14002990 - 02/21/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Durantz, are you even reading what I wrote? Language necessitates that other people exist otherwise language wouldn't make any sense (this is "proved" because a private language cannot exist)





Yes I'm reading it but how do you know that the other "people" you see are not just projections of your imagination?

As far as private language is concerned I see no reason for this not to be able to exist? Why can't it?

People invent new words on a daily basis. People invent entire languages on their own.

I read what you say but all you say is one assertion and fail to back it up with any explanation. Please forgive me but i am unable to read you mind so you need to explain how you have come to this conclusion.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
    #14003001 - 02/21/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
"There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so"

What may be right to you is wrong to another.  How can we not be animals. Everything about us is animal. We eat, fuck, fart, shit, fight, think, respond, die, etc. as do all animals. The fact that our thinking and reasoning capacity is expanded is the same as another animals ability to run faster than us.




How many other animals write books, build cities, engineer societies, create religions, reflect on their reason for existence?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14003054 - 02/21/11 06:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
Durantz, are you even reading what I wrote? Language necessitates that other people exist otherwise language wouldn't make any sense (this is "proved" because a private language cannot exist)





Yes I'm reading it but how do you know that the other "people" you see are not just projections of your imagination?

As far as private language is concerned I see no reason for this not to be able to exist? Why can't it?

People invent new words on a daily basis. People invent entire languages on their own.

I read what you say but all you say is one assertion and fail to back it up with any explanation. Please forgive me but i am unable to read you mind so you need to explain how you have come to this conclusion.




A person cannot create an exclusively personal language on their own because it would be completely incoherent to them. There is no way to check yourself if you are using a word/symbol correctly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_language_argument


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14003151 - 02/21/11 06:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
"There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so"

What may be right to you is wrong to another.  How can we not be animals. Everything about us is animal. We eat, fuck, fart, shit, fight, think, respond, die, etc. as do all animals. The fact that our thinking and reasoning capacity is expanded is the same as another animals ability to run faster than us.




How many other animals write books, build cities, engineer societies, create religions, reflect on their reason for existence?




so? many animals have adaptations that put us physically to same.  You seem to have missed everything I wrote in your rush to defend your specialness. :lol: 

Did you know that there are more foreign living things in your body then you have cells?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14003179 - 02/21/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
"There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so"

What may be right to you is wrong to another.  How can we not be animals. Everything about us is animal. We eat, fuck, fart, shit, fight, think, respond, die, etc. as do all animals. The fact that our thinking and reasoning capacity is expanded is the same as another animals ability to run faster than us.




How many other animals write books, build cities, engineer societies, create religions, reflect on their reason for existence?



.... Do we really need to go over hominid evolution?


--------------------


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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14003365 - 02/21/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
@ learningtofly

you are assuming that other human beings exist... where is the proof for this?

@ Hippie Chick

I fail to see how stealing from someone who is stealing could be considered the right thing to do. We used to think it was right to murder the murderer but now that is changing across the world.

But i understand that if you believe that humans are only capable of acting like animals then you would think that anything is 'right'.

Are we just animals though? How can we answer this question?




You never did answer how it was morally "right" of the king to declare all the land to be his in the 1st place.  Then you want to condemn Robin Hood for taking a few things? 

I say that whoever claims to be the ruler is the one who can make it stick.  History has shown that for the most part, humans act like animals.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14003459 - 02/21/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm surprised at your responses in this thread girl friend, and I am in agreement.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOverStoned
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
    #14003664 - 02/21/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What if Robin Hood is taking from rich people that screw the poor over? ...


--------------------
  IT'S ALL TOO MUCH


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: OverStoned]
    #14003688 - 02/21/11 08:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

duh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
    #14003847 - 02/21/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If we believe in a physical world then we must also accept that our actions are constrained to the laws of a physical world.

The known laws of the physical world support the existence of free will, or at the least, deny a deterministic universe (read: one where events are preordained and fixed).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
    #14004187 - 02/21/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The more important question is:



Did Robin Hood make a fashion faux paus by wearing tights?


--------------------


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Invisibleleakeg
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Diploid]
    #14008444 - 02/22/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Regards, Minitruth.


Edited by leakeg (05/02/12 01:08 AM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: leakeg]
    #14008905 - 02/22/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I tried replying to this post yesterday but the damn computer I was using crashed. So as a result I've had more time to consider a response.

The amount of argument this thread has resulted in brings me to the conclusion that Robin Hood could be bad or he could be good. This depends on what moral system you follow.

For me I believe that he was bad as outlined in my previous posts. But then there are some people who may think he is good because they believe that humans simply behave on an animal level and that we have the right to do things through sheer power and brute force.

So this argument has been useful for me because it has shown me that I need to describe and understand what my moral laws are so that I can live a consistent life.

@ Hippie Chick and Icelander

If you believe in this idea of humans acting like animals and that might is right then please never complain to anyone if you get taken advantage of by someone. If you fully believe this then you will have to accept, without complaint, whatever ills may befall you at the hands of another human being. If you don't do this then you are being inconsistent in what you claim to believe and how you actually react.

Hippie chick you advocate the torture and sexual abuse of innocent children and the abuse of animals... you advocate all physical suffering caused by human beings... this is a very harsh philosophy you have. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that it is very harsh and bleak. I choose to live by a different system.

Quote:

Free will is merely an illusion. The only thing preventing the universe from being deterministic is randomness at a quantum level.




Perhaps this is the case in the physical reality but what about a potential spiritual reality?


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