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leakeg
Dr. Hoffman.
Registered: 05/23/10
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: giza]
#13998920 - 02/20/11 11:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Regards, Minitruth.
Edited by leakeg (05/02/12 01:07 AM)
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durantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: leakeg]
#13998957 - 02/20/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that intelligence and choice separate humans from animals.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#13999219 - 02/21/11 12:58 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said: I think that intelligence and choice separate humans from animals.
Humans are pretty stupid, I wouldn't count on that.
I don't understand why you guys seem to think that humans are different from other animals. In case you have ignored the history of planet earth, we are just another species.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: giza]
#13999762 - 02/21/11 07:13 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said: Natural can be used different ways.
Is it natural for a person to steal money whenever they see it? If it was natural everyone would do it, wouldn't they?
no it's not natural for everyone to do it, or they would. You have a strange concept of what natural means.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: giza]
#13999767 - 02/21/11 07:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said: Comparing an animals actions to a humans is totally different though, isn't it?
no
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#13999769 - 02/21/11 07:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said: I think that intelligence and choice separate humans from animals.
That would be hard to demonstrate. You would have to prove free will for one thing and there is more evidence that we don't have it than do imo. Our brain may be more complex however but only in certain ways.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (02/21/11 07:16 AM)
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durantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
#13999784 - 02/21/11 07:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah the argument against free will seems to be stronger but that's only if we accept the premises of that argument (which so far have not been proven).
If we believe in a physical world then we must also accept that our actions are constrained to the laws of a physical world.
But can you prove that there is a physical world?
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Icelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14000437 - 02/21/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I can demonstrate that we inhabit a physical world. Try this. Walk through a wall. Not only you but everyone else will (as far as I know) have exactly the same result.
That's as close as you will come to "proof". Given enough time however and enough tries someone would be able to walk through a wall. However that does not negate physicality.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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learningtofly
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14000459 - 02/21/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said: yeah the argument against free will seems to be stronger but that's only if we accept the premises of that argument (which so far have not been proven).
If we believe in a physical world then we must also accept that our actions are constrained to the laws of a physical world.
But can you prove that there is a physical world?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
and yes I can. The use of language necessitates other people existing and in order for other people to exist they must EXIST in a physical location.
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Vaped


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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14001022 - 02/21/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I haven't seen/read anything about Robin Hood in many years, so correct me if I'm wrong in assuming information about the story.
The so-called "rich" people stole the money from the people in the first place, right? They pretty much forced them to pay up.
If that is the situation, then I have no problem with Robin Hood stealing the money back. It wasn't theirs in the first place.
Stealing stolen goods is all open season to me, assuming you have the intention of giving it back.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
#14001048 - 02/21/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I got drunk on saki and stumbled through a rice paper wall once.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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You're getting close, keep trying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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durantz
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Icelander]
#14002160 - 02/21/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Icelander I may believe a similar thing to you so let me know what you think of this.
I believe that there are at least 2 realities; a physical reality and a spiritual reality. We coexist in both realities at the same time.
So we must abide by the laws that each reality works on. So I would agree with you that we can't walk through walls or fly or live underwater etc.
However, part of us also exists within a spiritual reality that is not bound by physical laws. The spiritual reality has it's own laws (which I am attempting to discover). but I believe that in the spiritual reality our actions are not predetermined; that we do have freewill.
I wish I could explain this further with you but to be honest I've only really started to explore these ideas in the last couple of trips I've had. So I need to talk with the people on shroomery and maybe we can work something out together.
@ learningtofly
While it is useful to cite other philosophical arguments you must also be aware that there are very interesting counter arguments to a physical world. So it's fine if you believe in Sollipsism but don't say that it is the ABSOLUTE truth.
Check out Descartes, Hume, Berkeley on what they have to say about a physical world.
But let's not debate those arguments because people of far more experience and intelligence have been doing that for 1000's of years.
I'm interested in why you say that "Language necessitates other human beings"...
Let's start the topic off by considering the question; "do you ever talk to yourself?"
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Icelander
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14002181 - 02/21/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I didn't say that. I believe it was learningtofly.
Anyway I'm not convinced at all of any spiritual reality. I used to think it likely but with age and experience I've gone the other way. I find it unlikely although it might be nice to be wrong for once.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: Diploid]
#14002186 - 02/21/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: The rich tend to think that might makes right.
I got news for you. They're mostly right.
If might makes right then Robin Hood was perfectly justified in taking whatever he could get his hands on.
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Icelander
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True.
I've changed my mind about the poor and the so called downtrodden recently. Life necessitates their condition and it's all perfectly natural for things to be like this. We all are involved in this struggle for survival. Some of us are not mean so it looks more benign for them/us but survival of the fittest is still the bottom line.
Think of it like this, the superior elk "should" share the females with the other elk but he won't and it's a good thing for the survival of the species.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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durantz
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
Diploid said: The rich tend to think that might makes right.
I got news for you. They're mostly right.
If might makes right then Robin Hood was perfectly justified in taking whatever he could get his hands on.
I definitely am not advocating this. I do not believe that "might makes right". I could be wrong though. If you believe this then could you please explain why?
@ Icelander
Awwww you're making me sad now! No spiritual world? What is there then?
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HippieChick8
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14002307 - 02/21/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
Diploid said: The rich tend to think that might makes right.
I got news for you. They're mostly right.
If might makes right then Robin Hood was perfectly justified in taking whatever he could get his hands on.
I definitely am not advocating this. I do not believe that "might makes right". I could be wrong though. If you believe this then could you please explain why?
@ Icelander
Awwww you're making me sad now! No spiritual world? What is there then?
It's about survival of the fittest. I used to believe that humans transcended "above" survival of the fittest and they lived by morals according to God but I've changed my mind. I think humans act like animals only they are more sophisticated.
If the rich can't hang on to their possessions, either by tight security or by trying to trick the poor into believing they only deserve a fraction of what the rich have, then the rich are not "fit" to keep those possessions.
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durantz
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ok let's assume you are right about human nature.
I would now ask you this. Do humans have the ability to live morally?
Is it possible for us to stop acting like animals?
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HippieChick8
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Re: Robin Hood: Good or Bad? [Re: durantz]
#14002398 - 02/21/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said: ok let's assume you are right about human nature.
I would now ask you this. Do humans have the ability to live morally?
Is it possible for us to stop acting like animals?
I think people believe that they are trying to live morally but there is too much fighting, killing and apathy to say that they are living morally.
I have a question for you. Why does it bother you that Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor because the poor were living under oppressive taxation? You seem to think it is none of his business. If he has to witness the suffering of the poor than it is very much his business to try to help.
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