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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge...
#13984562 - 02/18/11 12:55 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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...is honesty even possible?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 5,401
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid] 1
#13984714 - 02/18/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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If one was lying you wouldn't know and nothing more would be known. If one was telling the Truth you would have no way of knowing.
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DrGuano

Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 740
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid]
#13985496 - 02/18/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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You should mae a bunch of philosoraptors Poid
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,914
Last seen: 22 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: DrGuano]
#13985853 - 02/18/11 05:36 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
DrGuano said: You should make a bunch of philosoraptors Poid
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Muufokfok
aka BoxyBrown


Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 2,119
Loc: america's wang
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: DrGuano] 1
#13985899 - 02/18/11 05:48 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
DrGuano said: You should mae a bunch of philosoraptors Poid
-------------------- "I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."
  As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples" ~Alan Watts~
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Ahimsa
µdose


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,827
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid] 1
#13986108 - 02/18/11 06:28 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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No knowledge = no knowing = no falsehood or truth... why this question?
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid] 1
#13987218 - 02/18/11 09:51 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: ...is honesty even possible? 
You could answer falsely to knowledge you thought you had.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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DrGuano

Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 740
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Muufokfok] 2
#13988991 - 02/19/11 07:54 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
BoxyBrown said:
Quote:
DrGuano said: You should make a bunch of philosoraptors Poid

I'm, srsly, you guys, ? You should make a bunch and post em in the pub Poid
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: DrGuano]
#13989890 - 02/19/11 12:49 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
DrGuano said: You should make a bunch of philosoraptors Poid
This, and in the title of your OP do you mean certainty when you say knowledge?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid]
#13994638 - 02/20/11 09:07 AM (13 years, 13 days ago) |
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I believe that honestly or deception has more to do with the intent of the person saying it rather than reality or truth.
If I tell you the keys are on the table, and I believe it, I am being honest whether or not the keys are actually on the table.
So yes, honesty is possible with respect to there being no 'knowledge'.
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jivJaN
yes


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: DieCommie]
#13994764 - 02/20/11 09:54 AM (13 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
I believe that honestly or deception has more to do with the intent of the person saying it rather than reality or truth.
^This
--------------------
--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 20 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid]
#13997488 - 02/20/11 07:40 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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I couldn't honestly say there is no such thing as knowledge
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Ahimsa]
#13997642 - 02/20/11 08:09 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said: No knowledge = no knowing = no falsehood or truth... why this question?
if there was no such thing as knowledge, I'd wake up in the morning, try to walk, collapse and smash my head into the corner of my desk, cuz I wouldn't know how to walk. forget honesty... I'd be dead.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 20 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: deranger]
#13998441 - 02/20/11 10:00 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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if there is no such thing as knowledge then who runs the internet?
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Seanfu]
#13998911 - 02/20/11 11:32 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: If I tell you the keys are on the table, and I believe it, I am being honest whether or not the keys are actually on the table.
How would you know you believe that, though, if there is no such thing as knowledge?
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DieCommie said: So yes, honesty is possible with respect to there being no 'knowledge'.
Why did you put 'knowledge' in quotes? 
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
DrGuano said: You should make a bunch of philosoraptors Poid
This, and in the title of your OP do you mean certainty when you say knowledge?
I would say those concepts are pretty much the same, wouldn't you? 
Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Poid said: ...is honesty even possible? 
You could answer falsely to knowledge you thought you had.
In a universe where there is no such thing as knowledge, it would be impossible to think you have knowledge.
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jivJaN said: ^This
^this
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Poid]
#14000049 - 02/21/11 09:04 AM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Then I'm glad we're no speaking philosophically about this universe..... because people think they have knowledge.
Also, if we are to assume there are no vehicles..... people would ride horses....
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Seanfu] 1
#14000349 - 02/21/11 10:17 AM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
How would you know you believe that, though, if there is no such thing as knowledge?
How could I not?
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Why did you put 'knowledge' in quotes?
Because that is a crux of your argument, and yet you left it ill defined. Why did you put knowledge in quotes?
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: DieCommie]
#14000378 - 02/21/11 10:21 AM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
How would you know you believe that, though, if there is no such thing as knowledge?
How could I not?
Quote:
Why did you put 'knowledge' in quotes?
Because that is a crux of your argument, and yet you left it ill defined. Why did you put knowledge in quotes?
There either is or isn't knowledge. Either you can know things or you cannot. If you can't then what is your definition of what knowledge is?
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 20 days
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Seanfu] 1
#14004332 - 02/21/11 10:12 PM (13 years, 11 days ago) |
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if there was no such thing as knowledge there would be no such thang as repairmen
i seriously doubt poid knows how to build a car engine...
how could he?
and yet, people do

or is that "wisdom?" ...you know, like....encyclopedias and enclosed instruction booklets and such
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: If we assume that there is no such thing as knowledge... [Re: Seanfu] 1
#14005190 - 02/22/11 12:49 AM (13 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: If one was lying you wouldn't know and nothing more would be known. If one was telling the Truth you would have no way of knowing.
There is a difference between the presence or absence of something and the ability to detect it. Poid asked about the former, you addressed the later. Bertrand's Teapot and so forth
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Seanfu said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
How would you know you believe that, though, if there is no such thing as knowledge?
How could I not?
Quote:
Why did you put 'knowledge' in quotes?
Because that is a crux of your argument, and yet you left it ill defined. Why did you put knowledge in quotes?
There either is or isn't knowledge. Either you can know things or you cannot. If you can't then what is your definition of what knowledge is?
huh? What is the relevance of this question? You seem to posture it as if there's some contradiction between traditional definitions of knowledge, or those that diecommie urged, and the supposition of a universe with such. Unfortunately, you don't explain this contention, or whatever the point of your inquiry is if I'm incorrect in my presumption.
To squarely answer your question, knowledge may be defined as usual, the property of understanding ideas or those ideas understood. To what end do you request this definition though? I can understand what an orangutang is even if I don't have one, and the idea of an orangutang is just as plausible in a universe with them as in a universe without- you seem to imply that if a property is absent that this somehow renders the definition troublesome, why?
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