Home | Community | Message Board

Avalon Magic Plants
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
The creator or the creation?
    #13988942 - 02/19/11 07:32 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Do you believe in a highly intelligent entity or some kind of force that created our existence? We are too highly complicated for thier to not be, that's what I think anyway. Just look at the brain and how complex it is, look at the rest of existence, it's AWESOME!

Can you believe in a God without the rest of religion following you? Sure! I don't believe in Jesus or the Devil, but God I believe in. We have to come to an agreement of what I mean by God. All that exists, human nature, plant life, animal life, it doesn't make sense to have happened from a flaw. Yesterday I looked at my dog in the morning and I could relate to his nature as he walked outside and ventured into my backyard. I sorta started to believe in animal emotion and that they are no different then us, we are similar in all causes, he has ears, eyes, mouth, touch and smell and yet we seperate ourselves or hold ourselves higher then they.

Show some love if you believe that God is love and that hate is just the downside to our existence, even though there is bad in the world doesn't mean that we are all bad. You love your family don't you? Your friends? Your girlfriend or wife? Your pets? It was sorta like I was showing some love for my dog and I could feel his existence.

Can you feel those you love's existence? It's a proud feeling of happiness and hope for eachother. Then I realized that not only are my pets alive and in this existence like mine, I realized that I am in such a same resemblence to all entities on earth.

Do you perhaps beleive that somehow, someway my dog can feel his own existence? I don't see how he cannot. It's sorta like this, you either choose to beleive or you choose not to, it's simple there is a difference. The difference is in loving your family and friends and pets you are allowing good things into your life, God.

Choose to believe or disbelieve but either way you must make a choice.

Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13988953 - 02/19/11 07:37 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

I guess all that talk about improving your posting and engaging in some real debate was just so much bull shit.  More crap from you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #13988984 - 02/19/11 07:49 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

And how I posted about actually considering other people's thoughts opinions was highly wrong then? You consider my post "CRAP" and bullshit, I can't change you but I don't see how you have no thoughts even related to mine, so why even post in my thread?

You are wasting my time? Have I wasted yours? You chose to waste your time in my post, I chose to ponder on life and creation.

Atleast give some thought into my so unintelligent situation of believing in something out of your scope of thought and mind.

Atleast i'm mindful and can consider other people's views. Who else is around here labeling other people's posts as "CRAP" and "BULLSHIT".

You aren't even debating with me.

Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13988994 - 02/19/11 07:54 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Did nature create itself? Or was nature created?

It's so complex the belief in having answers for it blows my mind.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13989032 - 02/19/11 08:17 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

I agree that it seems pretty crazy for everything that exists, to exist. But I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to believe there's such a thing as God. It makes a lot more sense to me that nature created itself in some mysterious way since a God would need to be created first to create nature, it just doesn't make sense to me that a god could exist without being created. What's weird though is I don't believe in God but I do believe in ghosts.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Eminence]
    #13989060 - 02/19/11 08:34 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Yeah I guess if you consider what created nature to also consider what created god would be plausible. Questioning the question.

So at the beginning there was what nothing? But how does something come from nothing? Maybe it always existed. The explosion of "something" that in turn led us to humanity can be measured and analyzed, but trying to think about what came at the beginning or how this thing all started can not so easily have an answer, it's so far gone from our reality that it isn't some how measurable.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13989066 - 02/19/11 08:37 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

To think about the truth it can't be answered by a human mind for one main reason that when humans weren't around there were no humans to question it. So I guess it is unanswerable.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13989079 - 02/19/11 08:43 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Yeah it really isn't something I think people will ever figure out, or at least not for a really long time, or until we die if there really is a God. I just tend to only believe in what can be proven. So it's either wait till death, or talk to a dead person is really the only things that could answer if God really exists or not.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13989118 - 02/19/11 09:02 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
And how I posted about actually considering other people's thoughts opinions was highly wrong then? You consider my post "CRAP" and bullshit, I can't change you but I don't see how you have no thoughts even related to mine, so why even post in my thread?

You are wasting my time? Have I wasted yours? You chose to waste your time in my post, I chose to ponder on life and creation.

Atleast give some thought into my so unintelligent situation of believing in something out of your scope of thought and mind.

Atleast i'm mindful and can consider other people's views. Who else is around here labeling other people's posts as "CRAP" and "BULLSHIT".

You aren't even debating with me.

Droz





I considered your post. I've watched all your posts carefully since your big confessional about your need to improve your  posting.  Nothing changed. You still continued to start a post and then not respond to questions on your beliefs. (maybe this is going to be a first for you) This post is structured like all your others.  Hell at least I got you to respond.

I'll use my time here anyway I want and if that includes making an example of your posts so that others may learn that's my business. So after considering your post I think it's a bunch of crap nonsense.:satansmoking:  Maybe others will want to go into detail not that anyone is home and listening.  I've said it all to you before.

but just for my entertainment I'll play with this.

Show some love if you believe that God is love and that hate is just the downside to our existence, even though there is bad in the world doesn't mean that we are all bad. You love your family don't you? Your friends? Your girlfriend or wife? Your pets? It was sorta like I was showing some love for my dog and I could feel his existence.

First off you're preaching in telling me what existence is. Of course to you existence is love and hate doesn't really count for much. Because imo you're afraid of your hate and the fact that the human animal functions on hate and fear more than on what you call love. And in my opinion love doesn't really exist except as a benchmark.  No  I don't love my family or my gf or my pets. I may like them for what they bring into my life however. Why in hell would I believe in a God or that God is love? There's not a shred of evidence for this except in your convoluted fear driven reasoning.  If God was love then that would be our experience of life. Instead it is the minute to minute struggle for existence which is what life appears as and functions as. 

This god is love crap belongs in the mystery forum and you been told that often enough. Yet no matter how anyone responds to you in a week or two you will come back with more of this same CRAP. :poop:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/19/11 09:12 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Icelander]
    #13990265 - 02/19/11 02:23 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Hey everyone is a critic. I'll take your crap as a lesson to someone who is worth not responding to.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13990524 - 02/19/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Do you believe in a highly intelligent entity or some kind of force that created our existence? We are too highly complicated for thier to not be, that's what I think anyway. Just look at the brain and how complex it is, look at the rest of existence, it's AWESOME!

So tell me, who created this creator? The creator is "too highly complicated for there not to be" a creator of the creator.

A follow up question is: are you going to ignore this post too like you do every other one I make challenging your ideas?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Diploid]
    #13990538 - 02/19/11 03:27 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

You could go on and on with what came before what. The creator before the creator sure, but to me it is infinite possibilities. Can one know human existence without being human?

Well at least you are challenging them considering how others have responded.

It's like an equation on a graph I can't remember the term for it, but it's about how the graph will never reach zero, it will come so close to zero but never will it reach that point.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDroz
Love of Life
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13990554 - 02/19/11 03:30 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

I also tend to think about the unknown, I like to ponder and play with my ideas, no matter how ridiculous some say they can get.

Understand what I mean by play with my ideas? It's obvious because that is what I do in all my threads.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Droz]
    #13990557 - 02/19/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

So you agree that your position makes no sense. If there must be a creator because the universe is so complex (as you say), then you must agree that there must be a creator of the creator, for the exact same reason.

You agree, yes?

Oh, and the concept you're referring to is called an asymptote. :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: The creator or the creation? *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #13990613 - 02/19/11 03:40 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Post deleted by giza

Reason for deletion: .


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: giza]
    #13990617 - 02/19/11 03:41 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Is your last name by any chance Damn?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinen.dangerously
Disease, Injury, Madness
Male


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 107
Loc: PDX Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: Icelander]
    #13992824 - 02/19/11 10:30 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

No god.

People have always slapped the label of "god" on the things we don't yet understand. They would worship volcanoes from fear of angering the god who dwelt inside. Later, we discovered what volcanoes really were and how they functioned. There was no longer the thought of a hot-tempered super-dude spitting up melted rocks. It was physics.

We are the creators of the 'creator'. When a person is bored, he or she will entertain their self somehow. When people are scared, they will do what it takes to comfort themselves. God (as an idea) is the ultimate way to sweep truth and understanding under the rug.

Feelings of love, hate, joy, passion, or any other emotion is purely a chemical response in the brain that comes from processing life. It is no act of god.

Over a length of time, animals will evolve in a manner that perpetuates that species survival. Giraffes like to eat from trees, so they developed extended necks and tongues that accommodate that. Our means of continuing existence was to develop advanced brains. It, again, is no question of god; but an answer of nature.

The idea of a god has done nothing but hold us back. It causes wars, segregation, blind hatred (which seems rather counter-productive and contradictory), and countless other senseless acts. It's never a person caught up in the misdirections of a deity that helps humanity progress. Science has, time and time again, disproved god (or gods respectively). And it's science that has helped us move forward, tread new ground, and ultimately understand the things around us.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegiza
Male

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: n.dangerously]
    #13992966 - 02/19/11 10:52 PM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

n.dangerously said:
No god.

People have always slapped the label of "god" on the things we don't yet understand. They would worship volcanoes from fear of angering the god who dwelt inside. Later, we discovered what volcanoes really were and how they functioned. There was no longer the thought of a hot-tempered super-dude spitting up melted rocks. It was physics.

We are the creators of the 'creator'. When a person is bored, he or she will entertain their self somehow. When people are scared, they will do what it takes to comfort themselves. God (as an idea) is the ultimate way to sweep truth and understanding under the rug.

Feelings of love, hate, joy, passion, or any other emotion is purely a chemical response in the brain that comes from processing life. It is no act of god.

Over a length of time, animals will evolve in a manner that perpetuates that species survival. Giraffes like to eat from trees, so they developed extended necks and tongues that accommodate that. Our means of continuing existence was to develop advanced brains. It, again, is no question of god; but an answer of nature.

The idea of a god has done nothing but hold us back. It causes wars, segregation, blind hatred (which seems rather counter-productive and contradictory), and countless other senseless acts. It's never a person caught up in the misdirections of a deity that helps humanity progress. Science has, time and time again, disproved god (or gods respectively). And it's science that has helped us move forward, tread new ground, and ultimately understand the things around us.




So who would be held as the most powerful being?
The first living organism?
Or no one?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJoolz
Male
Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: giza]
    #13994147 - 02/20/11 03:42 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

We are God. We are already in heaven, in the Garden of Eden. If there was no suffering there would not be happiness. We are already perfect, but perfection does not mean without pain or suffering or saddness. Those things exist so that their lighter sides may exist.

(imo)


--------------------
Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinen.dangerously
Disease, Injury, Madness
Male


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 107
Loc: PDX Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The creator or the creation? [Re: giza]
    #13994228 - 02/20/11 05:16 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

n.dangerously said:
No god.

People have always slapped the label of "god" on the things we don't yet understand. They would worship volcanoes from fear of angering the god who dwelt inside. Later, we discovered what volcanoes really were and how they functioned. There was no longer the thought of a hot-tempered super-dude spitting up melted rocks. It was physics.

We are the creators of the 'creator'. When a person is bored, he or she will entertain their self somehow. When people are scared, they will do what it takes to comfort themselves. God (as an idea) is the ultimate way to sweep truth and understanding under the rug.

Feelings of love, hate, joy, passion, or any other emotion is purely a chemical response in the brain that comes from processing life. It is no act of god.

Over a length of time, animals will evolve in a manner that perpetuates that species survival. Giraffes like to eat from trees, so they developed extended necks and tongues that accommodate that. Our means of continuing existence was to develop advanced brains. It, again, is no question of god; but an answer of nature.

The idea of a god has done nothing but hold us back. It causes wars, segregation, blind hatred (which seems rather counter-productive and contradictory), and countless other senseless acts. It's never a person caught up in the misdirections of a deity that helps humanity progress. Science has, time and time again, disproved god (or gods respectively). And it's science that has helped us move forward, tread new ground, and ultimately understand the things around us.




So who would be held as the most powerful being?
The first living organism?
Or no one?




Matter and energy are different manifestations of the same thing. Neither can be created nor destroyed, only altered. So in our most basic state, we are just energy. Same as the sun, the earth, or a deer.

So, to answer your question, you can't think in terms of 'beings'. The first living organism was the same energy that we are now, the same energy from the birth of the universe. So the answer is energy. That is the creator and maintainer of the universe and life. Everything is a part of it. We are, naturally, one with the universe. No one, but all things.

Edited by n.dangerously (02/20/11 04:35 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god)
( 1 2 3 4 all )
hoopershroomer 4,594 72 07/18/06 01:29 AM
by blackdragon999
* Creationism / Evolution
( 1 2 all )
angryshroom 2,496 23 11/11/03 06:29 AM
by StrangeDays
* collection of quotes on conscious creation felix4life 1,064 1 06/13/06 11:29 AM
by capliberty
* I want to debate a "creation scientist".
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
Phluck 16,420 232 12/01/04 04:26 PM
by Diploid
* Is life reproduction? I_was_the_walrus 355 8 03/14/10 08:08 PM
by I_was_the_walrus
* Random thoughts on creation/our minds jong21 667 6 11/28/03 03:19 PM
by jong21
* evolution or creationism?
( 1 2 3 all )
top 5,371 54 11/17/05 09:19 PM
by Moonshoe
* Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer
( 1 2 all )
YthanA 2,737 28 05/05/06 09:20 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,531 topic views. 3 members, 6 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.