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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13991837 - 02/19/11 07:48 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I disagree. To explain I challenge you to give me one example of a selfless action.
To warn you, I have never lost this contest.
I may feel the need to give someone an acknowledgement sign if they are feeling left out, or I may be especially nice to someone because I think it will benefit their day. I understand that I do this because I would want to be treated this way, but I do not see that as something to gain. The chance of recieving such is unlikely.
You're not going to win, trust me- I've played this game. The key is to accept selfishness as a way of life, or THE way of life, and not with the negative connotation that it is usually associated with.
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991842 - 02/19/11 07:49 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Something to add- Empathy is a selfish motivator.
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991856 - 02/19/11 07:51 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
auxiliary said: Something to add- Empathy is a selfish motivator.
Why?
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991858 - 02/19/11 07:52 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Another thing- everything you do intentionally is something you pride yourself on. Your rebuttal to this would be selfish. Entirely selfish.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991867 - 02/19/11 07:53 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I disagree. To explain I challenge you to give me one example of a selfless action.
To warn you, I have never lost this contest.
I may feel the need to give someone an acknowledgement sign if they are feeling left out, or I may be especially nice to someone because I think it will benefit their day. I understand that I do this because I would want to be treated this way, but I do not see that as something to gain. The chance of recieving such is unlikely.
You're not going to win, trust me- I've played this game. The key is to accept selfishness as a way of life, or THE way of life, and not with the negative connotation that it is usually associated with.
Ice is the ultimate defender of psychological egoism. It's a compelling theory but I think there are other competing drives to self-interest such as preservation of the species wherein a mother will sacrifice herself for her child and the like.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13991876 - 02/19/11 07:54 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
auxiliary said: Something to add- Empathy is a selfish motivator.
Why?
Because you intentionally do something based on how you are feeling, in this case because you feel for someone. But regardless, your intentions stem from how you feel
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991880 - 02/19/11 07:55 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I disagree. To explain I challenge you to give me one example of a selfless action.
To warn you, I have never lost this contest.
I may feel the need to give someone an acknowledgement sign if they are feeling left out, or I may be especially nice to someone because I think it will benefit their day. I understand that I do this because I would want to be treated this way, but I do not see that as something to gain. The chance of recieving such is unlikely.
You're not going to win, trust me- I've played this game. The key is to accept selfishness as a way of life, or THE way of life, and not with the negative connotation that it is usually associated with.
I believe selfishness is something to submit as the core of ones actions. But in this society of having everything we need I believe that it is not black and white 100 percent greed. Sometimes there is nothing to gain in an action. You can say self satisfaction but I don't think it is really counting unless it is a determining factor in the action itself. Afterward wouldn't count.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13991908 - 02/19/11 08:00 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said: I believe selfishness is something to submit as the core of ones actions. But in this society of having everything we need I believe that it is not black and white 100 percent greed. Sometimes there is nothing to gain in an action. You can say self satisfaction but I don't think it is really counting unless it is a determining factor in the action itself. Afterward wouldn't count.
Let it go. If you honestly don't get a sense of pride by doing "selfless" acts then maybe you haven't an argument. But I am 100% positive that you are not a programmed robot.
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991932 - 02/19/11 08:05 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
auxiliary said: Another thing- everything you do intentionally is something you pride yourself on. Your rebuttal to this would be selfish. Entirely selfish.
Why does everything have to be pride based? Why can't you just do something because you see a need for it? Once again, I believe the greed is accountable for 99 percent of kindness. I am only trying to argue that claiming it is 100 percent black or white isn't correct.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13991939 - 02/19/11 08:07 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
Seanfu said: I believe selfishness is something to submit as the core of ones actions. But in this society of having everything we need I believe that it is not black and white 100 percent greed. Sometimes there is nothing to gain in an action. You can say self satisfaction but I don't think it is really counting unless it is a determining factor in the action itself. Afterward wouldn't count.
Let it go. If you honestly don't get a sense of pride by doing "selfless" acts then maybe you haven't an argument. But I am 100% positive that you are not a programmed robot.
Why does one have to have pride in what they do? And all the time?
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13991971 - 02/19/11 08:12 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I disagree. To explain I challenge you to give me one example of a selfless action.
To warn you, I have never lost this contest.
I may feel the need to give someone an acknowledgement sign if they are feeling left out, or I may be especially nice to someone because I think it will benefit their day. I understand that I do this because I would want to be treated this way, but I do not see that as something to gain. The chance of recieving such is unlikely.
Well you already destroyed your own argument but beyond that you choose to treat others in ways that you feel are correct or right even if you have to give something up to do it. (even your life) You will choose to follow the path that is most important to your self image. This is just how we work. We never do anything that goes against who we believe we are or what we think of as right. So we do everything for that reason first and foremost and that is so we can live with ourselves. We are designed to be selfish as a survival mechanism.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13991993 - 02/19/11 08:14 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said: Why does one have to have pride in what they do? And all the time?
When did I say all the time? When you do a "selfless" act for the good of another, are you disappointed in yourself or are you happy with the fact that what you did is inline with your moral code?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: auxiliary]
#13992012 - 02/19/11 08:17 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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You're not going to win, trust me- I've played this game. The key is to accept selfishness as a way of life, or THE way of life, and not with the negative connotation that it is usually associated with.
Right, Being selfish can be of benefit to others or it may not. It all depends on what we view as important for ourselves. I like dogs so I take good care of them. They benefit from this but it is hardly a selfless act on my part. I would go far out of my way to help a dog in need but that is far from selfless on my part. It's important that I see myself as that kind of person. Still it's of great benefit to the doggers.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Icelander]
#13992181 - 02/19/11 08:45 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You're not going to win, trust me- I've played this game. The key is to accept selfishness as a way of life, or THE way of life, and not with the negative connotation that it is usually associated with.
Right, Being selfish can be of benefit to others or it may not. It all depends on what we view as important for ourselves. I like dogs so I take good care of them. They benefit from this but it is hardly a selfless act on my part. I would go far out of my way to help a dog in need but that is far from selfless on my part. It's important that I see myself as that kind of person. Still it's of great benefit to the doggers.
You've never just wanted to do something so something od someone could benefit because you had spare time? I find this hard to believe.
Why does it have to be so black and white? Why can't there be even rare exceptions to this rule?
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Seanfu]
#13992229 - 02/19/11 08:53 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Why? Because that's the way we're made that's why.
You don't seem to be listening. I never said our actions can't benefit others. I said and have shown you that we always act first and foremost for ourselves. Too bad that doesn't fit in with your subjective belief system but that in no way changes the facts.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Icelander]
#13992233 - 02/19/11 08:54 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I said and have shown you that we always act first and foremost for ourselves.
Or for the survival of the species, like I mentioned as in the case of the mother sacrificing herself for her child.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: deCypher]
#13992249 - 02/19/11 08:58 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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I don't consider that a motivating factor. The mother acts because that is what she views as important to her. Not all mothers would do this. Many would not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Icelander]
#13992262 - 02/19/11 09:01 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Sure, but my point is that the drive to protect one's young is just as valid a drive as the drive to benefit the self.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: deCypher]
#13992293 - 02/19/11 09:06 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Valid? What in the hell does that have to do with this discussion?
The drive to satisfy the self is 100%.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: A problem with Compassion [Re: Icelander]
#13992299 - 02/19/11 09:07 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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IMO it shows that we don't always "act first and foremost for ourselves", as in the case of the mother who is acting first and foremost for her child.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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