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amuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: Icelander]
#13990297 - 02/19/11 02:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Truth, proof - falsity, lies, illusion. It's where these "opposites" meet that you find 'magick'.
Illusion IS real. That's for sure, or maybe not.
As you can see from the above, there is a certain type that are drawn to "magic". 
Indeed. Illusion is everywhere. Politics, economics, believers of "truth" living the most mediocre lies. It's real. You should read a bit more of your Nietszche than that single quote.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: amuzakat]
#13990302 - 02/19/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Such as this? 
Quote:
If Life offends us we have in some way offended Truth . Our former errors lie in wait for us and we are ambushed to ruin. All the generations struggle to reduce truth to unity, to a God-idea, to Justice, Love and Power. My God was Power, and in my powerlessness I realize that I have built upon foundations of sand. ... My house has collapsed, and great was the fall of it. Antichrist lies in ruins before the indestructible feet of Christ shod with the love of the world, the love made manifest in deeds. O life, mock me not! Thou hast conquered, Galilean, thou hast conquered in the very heart of thy greatest foe! ... Credo quia absurdum: I believe the absolute absurdity of Jesus, but still I cannot be saved. To the very last I cannot surrender my pride of intellect, my conviction that Jesus must stoop to Nietzsche, even though he is a heap of ruins! No more enemies--no more hate--only a world-embracing love! That is no kingdom for me! I must have lightning and thunder, and die while the world crashes about my ears!...
or
Quote:
I did a great deal of maturing in Leipzig, a vast amount of masturbating, and not nearly so much whoring as I should have done.
--from My Sister and I by Friedrich Nietzsche
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
Edited by deCypher (02/19/11 02:39 PM)
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: Icelander]
#13990419 - 02/19/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
deCypher said: Magic is, according to Crowley, and I agree with him, the "Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."
Yeah I already said it's basic psychology.
It's not "basic psychology," it's using basic principles of psychology to manipulate people.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: learningtofly]
#13990624 - 02/19/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: amuzakat]
#13990628 - 02/19/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
amuzakat said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Truth, proof - falsity, lies, illusion. It's where these "opposites" meet that you find 'magick'.
Illusion IS real. That's for sure, or maybe not.
As you can see from the above, there is a certain type that are drawn to "magic". 
Indeed. Illusion is everywhere. Politics, economics, believers of "truth" living the most mediocre lies. It's real. You should read a bit more of your Nietszche than that single quote.
Illusion may be real but what about magic?
I read another one of his quotes once.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Peril_eyes
Stranger

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 39
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: Icelander]
#13990680 - 02/19/11 03:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Magik is willed brain change, most people would know nothing of it so there is nothing to "prove".
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: Peril_eyes]
#13990693 - 02/19/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Obviously it's working for some of you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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amuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: deCypher]
#13990980 - 02/19/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
I did a great deal of maturing in Leipzig, a vast amount of masturbating, and not nearly so much whoring as I should have done.
--from My Sister and I by Friedrich Nietzsche
If you can stand Orson Welles in a slow paced cheesy mode, watch F for Fake if you haven't already!
"This is a film about lies but I promise that for the next hour I will tell the truth."
Quote:
Icelander said: Illusion may be real but what about magic?
Magic is an illusion, illusion may be real... So magic is real?
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: amuzakat]
#13991060 - 02/19/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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What do you mean by magic, what do you mean by illusion, and what do you mean by real?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: amuzakat]
#13991126 - 02/19/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
amuzakat said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
I did a great deal of maturing in Leipzig, a vast amount of masturbating, and not nearly so much whoring as I should have done.
--from My Sister and I by Friedrich Nietzsche
If you can stand Orson Welles in a slow paced cheesy mode, watch F for Fake if you haven't already!
"This is a film about lies but I promise that for the next hour I will tell the truth."
I'll have to check it out just because of that quote.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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amuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: learningtofly]
#13991313 - 02/19/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: What do you mean by magic, what do you mean by illusion, and what do you mean by real?
Are you really asking this? Do you want to ruin my (lack of) argument? :-)
Well I will have to think about that. hmm. I think they're just the standard ones, from Wikipedia
Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or may be thought to be.[1] In its widest definition, reality includes everything that is and has being, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible.
Magic is a performing art that entertains an audience by creating illusions of seemingly impossible or supernatural feats, using purely natural means. These feats are called magic tricks, effects or illusions.
However, I would be happy to extend the magic idea by the Crowley definition, in so far as large parts of reality is plastic enough to not go unaffected by the creation of illusion. We end up trying to force reality into our illusory ideas of it a lot of the time. Also, that it is not just stage magic, but other forms of illusion too, such as self deception. You mentioned marketing.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: learningtofly]
#14798876 - 07/20/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: What do you mean by magic, what do you mean by illusion, and what do you mean by real?
magic (without the Crowley K) is stage magic which tricks the eye and mind? to assume things have happened which defy logical process.
Illusion could the connected. It is what you THINK has happened when that card disappears when in reality you just were diverted from seeing what happened to it.
what is real is a mystery! Science does not know what consciousness is nor what matter is!! So this means that it cannot dis-prove the possibility of reality being BOTH 'ordinary' and stable but also magical.
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Luueschen
Vampire


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 655
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: zzripz]
#14800573 - 07/20/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of law"
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 12 days
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Re: what did aleister crowley and the like do that had people believe in them? [Re: Luueschen]
#14801537 - 07/21/11 02:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would like to point out a few things in this thread.
firstly, Crowley was a writer. He had a strong grasp on the topics of occult and this made him popular.
secondly, Crowley's magic was not based on psychology (although in heinsight we can draw the connections), it was based on the study of ancient techniques of mediation, focus, and worship.
thirdly, magic really is anything that you don't understand. If you want to be more anal, you can say that magic is anything that noone understands
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