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Tony
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Mind's projections
#13984144 - 02/18/11 11:34 AM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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It's taking its time to sink in even though I've experienced this many times:
First, you're afraid of some potential future event. In other words there's something that keeps you up at nights and makes your body shake at the darkest hours, during "the night of the soul"..
Then, when it comes time to actually live through the experience, it often turns out to be far less intense than imagined. Think about that for a moment. It's as though our imagination gives rise to more suffering and terror than the pure experience of life, which is actually a pulsating letting go of imagined frailty.
So far, you've been beaten up, rejected, lied to, ridiculed, cheated on, you've broken bones and been sick with dengue fever, and you've lived through all of these and don't actually think much about those past events...
But still you imagine that there is MORE to come, higher levels of suffering yet to be experienced by you, some Hellraiser type scenario waiting in some freacko's basement with your darling's name on it, or some global disaster that is right on the doorstep of humanity.... always more horror for the horror fan.
What do you make of this tendency?
It might be out of context but here's a quote from Mooji:
"The nature of consciousness is such that sometimes it invents a problem in order to experience transcending it."
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theneatobandito



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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#13984321 - 02/18/11 12:09 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Man's constant struggle to understand mortality I would suppose? We have convinced ourselves through the constant repetition of non-sense in our world that we are made in the image of God... but so is everything else. We've been gifted with a mind capable of understanding how to defy extinction by combing science & nature (home cultivation of mushrooms in a sterile environment, classic example). This beautiful mind, with every ounce of it's misunderstood ability to create a nearly infinite future, is misused day dreaming about immortality, because we've convinced ourselves that in the image of God, we would give anything to be God.
Or something else entirely, who knows?!? Haha! 
-------------------- “In oneself lies the whole world and if you know how to look and learn, the door is there and the key is in your hand. Nobody on earth can give you either the key or the door to open, except yourself.” - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Tony
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Death does seem to be the ultimate projection and mystery. It's not necessarily because it has to be some horrible experience (we kinda die everytime we go to sleep, and that aint too bad of an experience). Maybe it's so haunting because it's the one concept that we can not transcend via experience/reasoning. No one can make a mentally acceptable report about what it's like to be dead, because who could there be left to make a report about total annihilation. That's why it can grow to such horrible conceptual and emotional proportions in the mind, it points to the ultimate unknown beyond even the most comprehensive life one could live. Death may be a colossal mistake of identity, but it sure is a powerful idea.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#13989941 - 02/19/11 01:01 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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This is why horror books and movies are almost always more effective when they don't show the monster in the closet or behind the door; your imagination and anticipation always creates a much worse projection of fear and terror than any actual CGI of Godzilla or a man in a rubber suit can.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: Mind's projections [Re: deCypher]
#13990331 - 02/19/11 02:42 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Aye. It's almost like the fear of the unknown, or fear of the fear itself is worse than the actual manifestation of that fear. Negative anticipation and anxiety are the epitome of hell IMO.
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R2-D2
horseradish



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Exactly! Fear is totally worse than whatever it's directed at!
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Kickle
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony] 1
#13997199 - 02/20/11 06:38 PM (13 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said: What do you make of this tendency?
It makes sense to me on a survival level. We can best deal with death/harm by preventing it from needlesly happening. So predicting potential dangers is a fundamental tool of the mind. Seems to me that a lot of things can amplify the severity of the prediction. Say you were recently raped in an alley... you are not likely going to walk down another alley alone any time soon. And your prediction may be relayed in some unrealistic form: e.g, if I walk down that alley I am going to be raped again. Odds are you could walk down the alley just fine in reality, but recent events are telling you that the risk does not outweigh the reward.
That's what I make of the tendency.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Tony
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Kickle]
#14001218 - 02/21/11 12:55 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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That does make sense. But the survival of what?
Animals are instinctually protective of their genes. For people survival can mean so many things as memes can also become imbued with identity.
I guess it's a question of what is really important..
Suppose that you could choose what is important for you. Would you go for something that is bound to be destroyed by time? To me that seems kinda analoguous to going to the cinema to watch a horror movie.
Of course if there is no choice to be made, then all this is kinda moot..
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Kickle
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#14001268 - 02/21/11 01:02 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Well I don't see much choice in the matter. I have found a degree of choice when I become conscious of unconscious drives. But eventually I run square into a roadblock that just doesn't dissolve into total freedom in terms of action. I mean, who is going to be able to choose not to eat when their life is ultimately on the line? Even Ghandi ate enough to survive. That's where the question of "who can really achieve total freedom" comes into play for me. Because if I try to accomplish freedom, I am going to hit that action roadblock. So where does freedom really exist if not in action?
I have a hard time conveying these thoughts because when free will is discussed, we always look to actions. But IMO there is no true free will in action. It's an illusion.
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Tony
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Kickle]
#14001401 - 02/21/11 01:24 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Yeah, even though there is this strange and convincing sense of choice in everyday life, looking back on everything that has happened so far I don't think anything could have happened otherwise. Life is strange in this way. But I do appreciate the fact that sometimes I feel as though nothing important is happening. That's such a release from all the noise and fuss of this busy little ant-hill planet of ours
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Kickle
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#14001437 - 02/21/11 01:28 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#14001439 - 02/21/11 01:28 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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The greater we imagine we suffer the greater it feels being relieved of it (which is also imagined)
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Tony
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Chronic7]
#14001471 - 02/21/11 01:32 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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A universe with bi-polar disorder?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Tony]
#14001771 - 02/21/11 02:16 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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i wonder if the doc will prescribe it some meds...
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Chronic7]
#14002924 - 02/21/11 05:50 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
i wonder if the doc will prescribe it some meds...
The doc prescribed a hefty dose of mushrooms and the result was a massive ongoing hallucination of which we are an active part.
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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circastes
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: jivJaN]
#14003652 - 02/21/11 08:05 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Seems to me that consciousness survives instinctually, ie. there is little or no consciousness, below a certain threshold of intelligence. Our species evolved out of these instincts and thus remains clumsily instinctual unless we accelerate our evolution and cut off the vines strangling us like fear, anger and jealously. We are consciousness' first born.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Kickle
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: circastes]
#14003802 - 02/21/11 08:38 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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Creative thought is cool, but what makes you think that? I don't find fear to be strangling, I find it quite enabling. It is the drive that pushes us to do many, many things. Many are completely vital, such as finding food. We fear going hungry
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: circastes]
#14004020 - 02/21/11 09:19 PM (13 years, 12 days ago) |
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We are consciousness' first born
Hardly.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: Mind's projections [Re: Kickle]
#14005376 - 02/22/11 01:49 AM (13 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Creative thought is cool, but what makes you think that? I don't find fear to be strangling, I find it quite enabling. It is the drive that pushes us to do many, many things. Many are completely vital, such as finding food. We fear going hungry 
Yeah but see, we no longer need to fear going hungry. We know, intelligently, on another level, that if we don't eat it's all going to go downhill. We even have beautiful descriptions of the processes that take place when you don't eat, even (in science). We don't need to fear any more. We're too smart. And the really smart ones don't even believe in death. They realise it's all just a play and they are an eternal substance, if not eternal spirit. So... break the shell of instincts, because they are just reserving the seat for your intelligent decision.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Mind's projections [Re: circastes]
#14005711 - 02/22/11 03:11 AM (13 years, 11 days ago) |
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The trouble is that fear responses, being instinctual, are much faster than the process of intellectually rationalizing the correct decision. Thus they are useful in situations that depend on split-second timing, like whether or not to move out of the way of an approaching car.
Quote:
Everybody's afraid of something, right? Everybody, except for a woman known only as SM. She had an extremely rare condition that's destroyed the fear center in her brain ... and now she's scared of nothing.
Sounds fun, right? Researchers have been following her for more than 20 years and have tried all kinds of things with her ... watching scary movies, going to a haunted house (which she called exciting, like riding a roller coaster), and even taking her to a pet store to hold big snakes. They actually made her leave when she went to go pet a tarantula. And think about all the stuff she can do because she isn't ever scared ... skydive, climb mountains, mix stripes and patterns ...
But the fact is, our fear response is key to keeping us alive and safe.
Think about it; fear keeps you from walking into traffic or talking to sketchy strangers. SM narrowly escaped death when someone attacked her on a park bench. He'd called over to her and she just walked right to him, and didn't even flinch when he held a knife to her throat.
Think about driving, for example. If you suddenly realize you're tearing down the road, you'll instinctively slow down out of fear of an accident (or a ticket). If you had no fear, your only reaction would be "whee!" Or imagine the way a toddler will head right for the treacherous stairs, or march right up to a strange dog; it's because their fear reactions haven't fully developed yet.
In other words, fear gets a bad rap. It can hold you back when it's excessive or irrational, like with a phobia or obsessive compulsive disorder. But most of the time, being a big wussy wuss will save your life.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/healthy_living/113985/woman_born_without_ability_to
Children with Williams' syndrome can also exhibit a complete lack of fear which can prove an extreme hassle to parents:
Quote:
Imagine if your child trusted everyone, unconditionally. It sounds like fiction, but for parents of children with Williams syndrome, it can be a nightmare that demands eternal vigilance against a dangerous world. NPR profiles one family with a 9-year-old daughter, Isabelle, who has Williams and consequently feels no social fear. In a typical episode, Isabelle got into another family's car and buckled up after hearing the mother say they were going to Dairy Queen. "I can think of times when we were at the pool and I turn around to talk to someone, and I see her practically sitting on some man's lap at the pool, and he looks very uncomfortable," Isabelle's mother says. "And I just think: This is not good." Researchers theorize that Williams arises from a problem with ocytocin, a hormone that regulates trust. It can also manifest as a problem with permanent disorientation. Thankfully, experts tell Isabelle's parents there is hope—in adulthood, sufferers can recognize dangerous situations intellectually, even if they still don't feel social fear.
http://www.newser.com/story/87058/a-life-without-fear-npr.html
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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