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OfflineLloydChristmas
getting lost on purpose
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Registered: 04/05/06
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Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. * 1
    #13982132 - 02/17/11 11:16 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

http://www.bestoftheblogs.com/Home/37023


Drug Dogs Not Good Enough To Establish Probable Cause
by Ted McLaughlin on 02/07/2011




Here in the Texas Panhandle the Department of Public Safety (state police) and sheriff's departments arrest a lot of people on Interstate 40 for drug possession. It is not unusual for there to be at least one or two of these arrests, usually of people just traveling through the state, every week or two. It's like the police look for out-of-state license plates and then stop and search those cars.

But how can they search those cars legally? They use drug dogs. If a drug dog "hits" on any part of a car or truck, that is considered to be "probable cause" to search that vehicle (and a search cannot be done without either probable cause or the consent of the owner). If drugs are then found, the car's passengers are arrested and charged with smuggling drugs. The case makes the newspaper and everyone is amazed at how good the drug dogs are and what a wonderful law enforcement tool they are. But is that really true?

For one thing, no one knows (except the police) how many times the drug dogs "hit" on a vehicle and nothing is found. That's because there is no arrest in those cases and therefore no newsworthy story, especially if the driver is from out-of-state and continues his/her journey. The general public (and the courts) only hear about the incidents where drugs are found, and that gives them a skewed opinion of just how good the drug dogs really are.

Researchers at the University of California - Davis decided to determine just how good the drug dogs are. They performed an experiment using 18 different teams (drug dog and police officer) and it turned out that the dogs had over 200 false "hits" on places where there were no drugs (and never had been any drugs). Here is how the experiment worked:


The researchers took 18 drug dog teams to a church, where it is likely no drugs or explosives had ever been placed in the past.  The cops were told there might be up to three target scents in any one of four rooms.  If they saw a piece of red construction paper in the room, that indicated where a target scent was placed.

The first room was left untouched.  The second room had a piece of red construction paper on a cabinet.  The third room had two sausages and two tennis balls placed as decoys.  The fourth room had the decoy scents and the red paper.  However, none of the rooms had any drugs or explosives.

There shouldn’t have been any alerts, but, in fact, handlers indicated their dog had alerted in every room.  There were more alerts in rooms with red paper (which piques the cop’s interest) and no corresponding increase in rooms with sausages and tennis balls (which would pique a dog’s interest).

In other words, at best, dogs are responding to the subtle non-verbal cues of their masters to find drugs or explosives where the human thinks there should be drugs or explosives.  The cop suspects you have pot so his body language makes the dog alert.  At worst, the cop is purposefully cuing his dog to alert when he wants a handy excuse to violate your 4th Amendment rights.


I am glad that someone finally performed a test like this. I worked in some branch of law enforcement for most of my working life, and I have believed for a long time now that these dogs are not nearly as good as is advertised by those who use them. They just make too many mistakes.

Years ago, I worked in a juvenile prison. Every few weeks we brought in a drug dog to search for hidden drugs in the institution, and many times it was my duty to accompany the officer and dog on their rounds. The dog always "hit" on several locations on each trip, but never found any drugs. The officers excuse was always that there had been drugs in the location at one time. After many of these failed excursions, I lost any faith I had in drug dogs.

Probable cause is not established just because an officer suspects something. There must be something more, and in suspected drug stops on the highway that something else is a "hit" by a drug dog. The courts have been led to believe these dogs are so accurate that they rarely make mistakes, and that is why they take a "hit" by one of these dogs to be worthy of probable cause -- thus justifying a legal search. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

Can they sometimes find drugs? Yes. But far too often they are wrong. And they are wrong enough times that they should not be used to establish probable cause. Frankly, if an officer wants to search a car he can always find a dog that will "hit" on that car. That's not real probable cause, just an excuse that can be used in court to justify the illegal search.

It is time for more research to be done, and then for the courts to stop recognizing a "hit" by a drug dog as probable cause. They simply aren't reliable enough.


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OfflineThe Vapor
Lost In A Tea Daze


Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 8,433
Loc: Misty Mountains, B.C. Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: LloydChristmas] * 1
    #13982193 - 02/17/11 11:25 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

I hope people, specifically the courts and cops, pay attention to this kinda shit and don't just brush it off.


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: LloydChristmas] * 1
    #13982230 - 02/17/11 11:30 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Based on the title of the article, I had thought this was some new ruling by the courts stating drug dogs couldn't be utilized for PC anymore.  Damn, what a let down but still a good read.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Offlinek00laid
NEMO
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: The Vapor]
    #13982242 - 02/17/11 11:31 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

i was in a car filled with marijuana smoke as we were getting pulled over.

needless to say every was taken out of the car and a dog was brought in.

the dog went in and out and around the car blah blah.

as the officer took the dog towards the front bumper, thats when the dog barked. (not saying thats the "hit", this is just what i observed.

so there are drugs ALLLLLLL OVER that car.

but the only ones that were found were the drugs that were hidden by me. i was the only one who didnt smoke cigs and the only one with a tie dye shirt on. i wreaked of pot, the other two not so much because they started chugging down cigs at the moment of being pulled over.


so in a car FILLED with assorted drugs and drug paraphernalia they only found what their common sense let them.

tl;dr

dogs suck and don't find shit.

semi-smart cops who know how to look for shit where the hippy is sitting find drugs more often.


xD


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AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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OfflinePreparationH
apply daily


Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 18,335
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 12 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: k00laid]
    #13983480 - 02/18/11 08:37 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

did you get posession? Don't dress the part of a drug user man, when I had to travel some 200 miles with enough to get me a few years I shaved my head, was clean shaven, and wore a fuckin suit.  Over kill but if I got pulled over "I am going to a dinner with my grandfather sir"

tehehehe

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OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
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Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
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Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: LloydChristmas]
    #13983593 - 02/18/11 09:17 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I've been saying for years that even if they do work, the testimony of a dog shouldn't be considered in a criminal investigation.


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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OfflineAZrooj
AZ/WA
Male


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 788
Loc: USA Washington
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: Heffy]
    #13983656 - 02/18/11 09:33 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Yep, fucking lame.  I got busted by a police dog with mushrooms and DMT, with a car that had NEVER had MJ in it before, or any other drug that could be smelt for that matter.  Fuckers even opened my safe in my car, and all because the dog "gave" them permission.


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Power booster, I'm talking to god and more.

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Invisiblefloydisgod
whoa
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Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 802
Loc: satur9 Flag
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: AZrooj]
    #13983691 - 02/18/11 09:39 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Good shit. Finally some good news


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Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd
Smiling

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Offlinestarcade
Paladin


Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 495
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: floydisgod]
    #13983788 - 02/18/11 10:06 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

I was pulled over once, their was absolutely no amount of drugs in my vehicle, or had been in my vehicle for months, the police officers call in the drug dogs for no reason, walked right up to my window after pulling me over and stated, "we are doing drug interdiction", I said, "Sounds like a load of shit to me, you must be bored, patrol-man".  Anyways, he threw a blue tennis ball at my gas tank, right in plain view.  The dog hit on it immediately, he told me to get out of the car, I asked him why he faked it and threw the tennis ball, he didn't reply, so I asked the other two officers standing by, they just turned around and walked away.  They searched, found nothing but the $1200 I had on me, tried to get me to admit I was "goin to re-up". :grin:  of course they had to let me go..fuck the police.

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Offlinewasabi-kun
easily bored
Male


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 169
Loc: where is ware Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: LloydChristmas]
    #13984030 - 02/18/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

very good read, was something i always suspected. good to know its true, thanks for sharing it, very informative


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ciao-su

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,141
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 59 minutes
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: LloydChristmas]
    #13984301 - 02/18/11 12:04 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah, I can't believe that shit still stands up in court. 














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Mp3 of the month:  The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)


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OfflineDave Bowman
Albert Hoffmans Apprentice
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 2,104
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Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: The Vapor]
    #13984408 - 02/18/11 12:27 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Vapor said:
I hope people, specifically the courts and cops, pay attention to this kinda shit and don't just brush it off.




Exactly.  :feelshighman:

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OfflineAZrooj
AZ/WA
Male


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 788
Loc: USA Washington
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: Dave Bowman]
    #13984547 - 02/18/11 12:52 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah when I got busted the cop had a chew toy that he was using to tap on certain parts of the car-when the dog would go twords the toy the popo would say, "Oh he hit!!"

Not to mention the best quote when they finally found the mushrooms.

"You are quite the doper!"

And once in jail i could hear them call my the tree hugger through my holding cell.  All i could do was laugh since i knew i was fucked, watching them thrash through all of my shit and treat me horrible; when in reality they were the highway robbers.


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Power booster, I'm talking to god and more.

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Invisiblebryguy27007
Cosmonaut
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Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: wasabi-kun]
    #13984689 - 02/18/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Great read. Hopefully the news will travel to the courts.

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Invisibletaterdb
Male


Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 157
Loc: rocky mountain high
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: PreparationH]
    #13984775 - 02/18/11 01:37 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
did you get posession? Don't dress the part of a drug user man, when I had to travel some 200 miles with enough to get me a few years I shaved my head, was clean shaven, and wore a fuckin suit.  Over kill but if I got pulled over "I am going to a dinner with my grandfather sir"

tehehehe





Good advise man, I used to do a similar thing back in the day when i would bring weed into town from the city, me and my partner in crime would get fresh haircuts, put on suit pants and a collard shirt, and borrow his moms minivan, and of course we wouldn't smoke weed or bring any sort of pipe or paraphernalia.

we would even put the weed in a lock box with the key locked inside of it so we wouldn't be tempted, and also to make it that much more difficult for the police if we ever did get asked about what was in the box, not that it would have really stopped them if they wanted to get into it. we would also get our story completely straight before we ever left, so if asked individually we could say "oh were transporting late grandmas jewelry after the funeral", something like that. my buddy actually printed out fake funeral invitations with the proper dates and everything.

It was maybe a bit of overkill, we looked just like Mormons out on mission, but after dozens of trips like this, we never even got a second glance from the police, or their badly trained dogs.  truth is cops are pretty good at profiling and i believe they will often decide to search someone before they have even come to a stop, so its really worth not looking like what they think they are after.

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Offlinek00laid
NEMO
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
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Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: PreparationH]
    #13984855 - 02/18/11 01:48 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
did you get posession? Don't dress the part of a drug user man, when I had to travel some 200 miles with enough to get me a few years I shaved my head, was clean shaven, and wore a fuckin suit.  Over kill but if I got pulled over "I am going to a dinner with my grandfather sir"

tehehehe




nope.

driver got possession, i walked home that night.

thats what keepin your damn mouth shut gets you.

that and the driver ran the fucking red light.

:feelsbadman:


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AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: taterdb]
    #13984879 - 02/18/11 01:52 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah, cops say they don't profile, but they do (lying sacks of shit :mad: )

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OfflineSatival
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 249
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: taterdb]
    #13985617 - 02/18/11 04:32 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

It was maybe a bit of overkill, we looked just like Mormons out on mission, but after dozens of trips like this, we never even got a second glance from the police, or their badly trained dogs.  truth is cops are pretty good at profiling and i believe they will often decide to search someone before they have even come to a stop, so its really worth not looking like what they think they are after."
Quote:

taterdb said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
did you get posession? Don't dress the part of a drug user man, when I had to travel some 200 miles with enough to get me a few years I shaved my head, was clean shaven, and wore a fuckin suit.  Over kill but if I got pulled over "I am going to a dinner with my grandfather sir"

tehehehe





Good advise man, I used to do a similar thing back in the day when i would bring weed into town from the city, me and my partner in crime would get fresh haircuts, put on suit pants and a collard shirt, and borrow his moms minivan, and of course we wouldn't smoke weed or bring any sort of pipe or paraphernalia.

we would even put the weed in a lock box with the key locked inside of it so we wouldn't be tempted, and also to make it that much more difficult for the police if we ever did get asked about what was in the box, not that it would have really stopped them if they wanted to get into it. we would also get our story completely straight before we ever left, so if asked individually we could say "oh were transporting late grandmas jewelry after the funeral", something like that. my buddy actually printed out fake funeral invitations with the proper dates and everything.

It was maybe a bit of overkill, we looked just like Mormons out on mission, but after dozens of trips like this, we never even got a second glance from the police, or their badly trained dogs.  truth is cops are pretty good at profiling and i believe they will often decide to search someone before they have even come to a stop, so its really worth not looking like what they think they are after.




You are wise, sir. Of course cops profile! They don't think about pulling over grandma, especially if their looking for droogs. If you are clearly a huge hippie or wannabe-thug type, then all of a sudden you get pulled over for a 'traffic violation.'  Surprise.

Also, put your contraband in the trunk, always say "i don't consent to any search" when appropriate, be polite, and lastly, a safe or sealed piece of mail in the trunk can go along way to maintaining your freedom on such ventures. If you do get pinched you can always fight it in court if you use these precautions.

If you have alot of shit, carrying it in your person, driving a shit car, huge dreadlocks, burnt-out tail-lights, etc... Then it is only a matter of time lol

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OfflinePreparationH
apply daily


Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 18,335
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 12 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: Satival]
    #13985632 - 02/18/11 04:36 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

My idiot cousin got caught with a bunch of stuff because he's puerto rican, was driving an old lincoln on 22 chrome wheels and all blacked out tints on his window.  I was like DUDE.... WTF were you thinkin???

He had a record and all, knew a cop, got a slap on the wrist for something everyone else would go to prison for.

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OfflineSatival
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 249
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Drug dogs not good enough to establish probable cause. [Re: PreparationH]
    #13985713 - 02/18/11 05:02 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

The funny/sad thing is that profiling actually works imo... The people who never get caught usually have a very good front and look innocuous.

For example, the TSA are beyond retarded for wasting their time invasively searching war veterans and grannies. They should be searching mostly men, age 18-30. This is the universal group most likely to be "up to something"

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