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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Freeker]
    #5379636 - 03/08/06 10:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I am not being condescending. I point out fact.

Fact -- I knew that Sharia law and several Hadiths (and note that hadiths and Sharia law are integral parts of Islam) prescribe death to apostates. You didn't know that.

Now we can speculate all night as to WHY I as an atheist (or an agnostic, if you prefer) knew something about Islam that you as a Muslim didn't. And you can argue all night that the ONLY thing that matters in Islam is the Qu'ran, but you'll have to argue with your fellow Muslims, not with me, because there's a whole WHAP of Muslims out there who feel Sharia law and the Hadiths are essential to their faith. As a matter of fact, some of them feel so strongly about it that they kill other Muslims who don't agree with them.

Just as Lutherans and Catholics are Christians, so are Shiites and Sunni and Wahabbis Muslims.

I fully accept that you may not feel apostates to Islam must be killed yet still feel comfortable calling yourself a Muslim. But are you saying that those who do feel apostates must be killed are not "real" Muslims? They would beg to differ with you.



Phred


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Phred]
    #5379648 - 03/08/06 10:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

By the way, Wikipedia -- while often a good place to start for a quick synopsis of a given topic -- is not the final word on anything, much less on something as complex as religious beliefs. I originally confirmed the bit about death to apostates not on Wikipedia, but on two or three different Muslim internet discussion boards. This is the first time I have seen that Wikipedia article.


Phred


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InvisibleFreeker
jackaroe
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,225
Loc: buffalo
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Phred]
    #5379651 - 03/08/06 10:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:


Fact -- I knew that Sharia law and several Hadiths (and note that hadiths and Sharia law are integral parts of Islam)





That's what I disagree with, but I do feel that the Islam you have educated yourself with, is surely not the Islam I was brought up on and went on to explore. :peace:

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InvisibleFreeker
jackaroe
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,225
Loc: buffalo
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Freeker]
    #5379654 - 03/08/06 10:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I would like to see these sources.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Freeker]
    #5379667 - 03/08/06 10:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Basically what you are saying is that some Muslims don't feel that putting apostates to death is necessary. I can't deny that. On the other hand, some Jews are kind of slack about observing Shabbat. Yet Judaism is pretty clear on the whole Shabbat thing.

I ask again -- do you believe those Muslims who devoutly believe in death for apostates are not "real" Muslims? Because I guarantee you they will say that it is you who are not a "real" Muslim.

This is just one of the many many reasons I remain an atheist. No religion makes sense, and no religion of which I am aware lacks disagreement among its adherents over what are -- let's face it -- pretty key doctrinal points.


Phred


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Freeker]
    #5379674 - 03/08/06 10:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What sources? The Muslim internet discussion groups? Hell, I can't remember at this late date the URLs of those boards. Do a Google search. It's not as if there's any lack of them.

Why ask for more sources anyway? The source you provided -- Wikipedia -- states pretty plainly that Hadiths and Sharia law prescribe death to apostates, and they even quote from the Hadiths. Look it up in a book of Hadiths if you don't want to talk to Muslims on an internet board about it.



Phred


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InvisibleFreeker
jackaroe
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,225
Loc: buffalo
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Phred]
    #5379683 - 03/08/06 11:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Essentially they are muslims.

I myself, I have taken what I learn and interpreted it into my own lifestyle. But yet I am not without sin.

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just"

Islam, in my understanding of it, has always been a religion of tolerance and peace. Of cours, there are plenty of fundamentalists out there who interpret it in their own understanding, which all stems from the difference in our cultures/status.

But how I truly feel is, How can these people murder the innocent with terror and religion, and then claim us [the universal 'us'] as the kuffar. These people are the hypocrites, because the Qu'ran has plenty to say about the eternal fates of murderers. The problem is these people see themselves as servants of god, and not murderers.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Freeker]
    #5379768 - 03/08/06 11:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)


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OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Registered: 09/13/05
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Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5379842 - 03/09/06 12:02 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:





:shake:


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineChristopherABrown
Human being
Male

Registered: 07/22/16
Posts: 330
Loc: Santa Barbara California Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23475104 - 07/25/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Not enough choices.

Add.....
Good but fucks up once in awhile. 




Yea, it needs qualifiers.  The choices cause massive generalization.

It's good because of the original intent of its constitution, but the federal government is partly against that while the people do not understand the original intent.

This helps both.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/declarator-declare-constitutional-intent

Then this summarized legal process using state citizens agreement actually makes it good.

http://algoxy.com/law/lawfulpeacefulrevolution.html


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

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OfflineEzuma
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Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
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Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23475892 - 07/25/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Well forced to chose between the two I would say evil, however, that does not reflect on the american people. I personally think any ruling power will become evil if it is not to begin with, and america is a lesser of many evils.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,480
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 4 hours, 53 minutes
Re: Is America Good or Evil? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23477905 - 07/26/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Phred said:I am an atheist and accept nothing on faith.


Atheism is based on faith.  As Im sure you know, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  There is no hard evidence that god dosent exist.  There is no hard evidence that god does exist.  Therefore, imo, the only belief system not based on faith is agnostic.



Atheism is kinda based on faith, but it's also based on I believe in science and not this bullshit that people tried to drum into my head for years that defied every thing I ever learned in every science class I ever took. There could be an afterlife (I hope there is because I lost the person I loved the most in April). Her picture is on top of my TV and people come over and say who is that? I say that's Peggy. And they say that's Peggy and I say that what she looked like when she was beautiful in 06-to 08 before when they gave her Enbrel wich pretty  much destroyed her because the cures for auto imminune work by shutting  off your immune system. At the end of her life she fuck this this cause the medicine is killing me faster. So after 3years of absinace she went back to drinking, She said  this is my life. WE had 2 or three year as best fiends and drinking buddies then she died suddenly at 45, in April. I'm not close to getting over it and talk to her picture every day.

Back on topic agnosticsm is the most defensible position, but I'm Still an atheist because of every thing I learned from rational sources in my life. Hope I'm wrong







medicine


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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